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Please define Child Negligence

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J

Journee

Guest
What is the name of your state?MD

I am looking for a clear explanation of what child neglect/negligence is. What are the specific basic needs that need to be met? If any can share any sites with me, stories or advice I would appreciate it.
I did check the MD Human Resources site out, but I need something more specific.
 


BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
You're asking people, both professionals and laypersons, to define something that even the legislatures and the courts cannot definitively define. You need to peruse your state's laws to find the specific statutes that 'attempt' to define both neglect and endangerment.
 

snostar

Senior Member
Md. Code Ann. Fam. Law § 5-701
"Abuse" means:

The physical or mental injury of a child by any parent or other person who has permanent or temporary care or custody or responsibility for supervision of a child, or by any household or family member, under circumstances that indicate that the child's health or welfare is harmed or at substantial risk of being harmed; or

Sexual abuse of a child, whether physical injuries are sustained or not.

"Neglect" means the leaving of a child unattended or other failure to give proper care and attention to a child by any parent or other person who has permanent or temporary care or custody or responsibility for supervision of the child under circumstances that indicate:

That the child's health or welfare is harmed or placed at substantial risk of harm; or

Mental injury to the child or a substantial risk of mental injury.

Edit: Abandonment is not defined in the statutes.
 
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Whyte Noise

Senior Member
The problem you run into with this, is "neglect" means different things to different people.

It's kind of like the legislator (I can't remember his name) said when they were trying to ban porn and come up with a definition of what exactly "porn" is.

"I can't tell you what it is, but I know it when I see it."

Perhaps you should call your local CPS office and see what their definition of neglect would be, and what it takes to get them to act.
 
J

Journee

Guest
Thanks

Thanks for the info. I do understand that it can be hard to define neglect because of it's many elements. I did call CPS and they too could not give me a defination, so I was hoping I would get more of an answer here. Thanks Snostar, that info was the same I saw on the website.
Still turning in circles,
Journee
 

Kevmar44

Member
Not that this will be any help to you other than to show what the other "parent" can get away with...with my ex's ok, his wife knocked my 12 year old son to the ground and ripped a necklace off of him, leaving 4 red scratch marks down his throat. We went to the police station and filed a report and waited to hear from CS. When I did not hear from them I called and was told "well they ASKED your son to take the necklace off and refused so that makes HIM unruly!" So basically I was told that if you tell your children to do something and they don't, you can use violence as a way to handle the situation! Nice, huh? Oh by the way, I live in Ohio.
 

Sculptor

Member
Definition of sexual abuse

Boy am I embroiled in this one. As journee knows, I, too, am in MD, dealing with CPS and their mixed messages and ineffectiveness. I suppose it does come down to an individual's definition of what constitutes abuse.

My 5 y.o. reported her father in bed with her (both his bed and hers), both naked, pressing their bare butts together. She also demonstrated taht one spot ONLY HE tickles her is in the groin area. CPS worker told me this means supervised visits, yet, investigated and found it to be "inappropriate behavior" and "suggested" to him that he wear boxers and she wear pajamas when she's there. Go figure.

As this is against what I made sure had been put in court orders (he has a fixation with nudity AND little girls -one reason I left him), I've filed for contempt, for sole physical/legal, and supervised visits in a visitation center. I have no idea how a judge will feel, yet this is CPS sexual abuse investigation #2 this year, 3rd time he's brought up on contempt charges (last time was when he ran with my daughter). I'm feeling a little hopeful, yet jaded by the system.

Good luck, journee!
 

skyspirit

Member
Sculptor said:
Boy am I embroiled in this one. As journee knows, I, too, am in MD, dealing with CPS and their mixed messages and ineffectiveness. I suppose it does come down to an individual's definition of what constitutes abuse.

My 5 y.o. reported her father in bed with her (both his bed and hers), both naked, pressing their bare butts together. She also demonstrated taht one spot ONLY HE tickles her is in the groin area. CPS worker told me this means supervised visits, yet, investigated and found it to be "inappropriate behavior" and "suggested" to him that he wear boxers and she wear pajamas when she's there. Go figure.

As this is against what I made sure had been put in court orders (he has a fixation with nudity AND little girls -one reason I left him), I've filed for contempt, for sole physical/legal, and supervised visits in a visitation center. I have no idea how a judge will feel, yet this is CPS sexual abuse investigation #2 this year, 3rd time he's brought up on contempt charges (last time was when he ran with my daughter). I'm feeling a little hopeful, yet jaded by the system.

Good luck, journee!


I know how you feel! It makes me angry to think that alot of people who aren't charged SHOULD BE charged! I am no attorney, but I know of this behavior with the 2 boys I have custody of. Their biological mother and father had sex (including oral sex) in front of them repeatedly--often with the children in the same bed. Father walked around the house naked all the time "Playing with his peepee" as the one boy put it. The 2 boys also say things from time to time that make me feel in my gut that "other" things happened as well. What aggrivates me is that neither parent was charged. In my honest opinion, I believe that they should have been charged. I really don't understand the system sometimes either...
 
J

Journee

Guest
Sculptor and Skyspirit

I could not agree with you both more. Somehow, parents who arent taken care of thier children properly seem to slip through the system until the child is in serious condition or even worse, passed on. Of course, this is not in all cases but it seems to me to be a growing majority.
Sky, I am not sure of what state you are in, but Sculptor and I are both in Maryland and can testify to the tragic stories we have been hearing of CPS placing children in foster homes where they have been locked in closets, beaten and died because of being starved to death. So our CPS system here is not what it should be, not even close. How can we can get the attention of an orginization that can't even screen potential foster parents correctly or do the required followups to ensure the child's safety? Can you imagine how long it takes a child to starve to death? And no one went to check on them or surely they would have noticed!
So perhaps this is why Sculptor and I are having such a hard time getting CPS to listen to us. Right now they have bigger fish to fry, so our children continue to suffer. It isnt fair to any of these kids. And here we are able to provide better, suitable homes for our children and no one will listen.
Consider the media, Sky. You are right when you say that those parents should have been charged. There was enough evidence to place them with you but not enough to charge them with sexual abuse? Please!!!!!!!!! Now the children are gone, the parents are roaming free and you, out of the goodness of your heart take these children in and you have to undo the damage already done. All of my love and prayers go out to you and the children.
As for Sculptor and I we are continuing to exchange help and any info we can to settle our matters. Sculptor's child is in more need than mine right now so anything I can do to help her is no problem.
Sculptor, I was unaware of your ex's fascination with little girls. This is a classic pedophile trait. See if you can get him evaluated by a psychologist. Someone professional who can see the characteristics of a pedophile. Do you have any physical evidence? Perhaps you can get someone to check out his computer. I am sure he has searched the net for pics of little girls and even though we may delete files, temp pages and pictures, they still remain forever on the hard drive. I would file a complaint saying that you know he has those types of pictures on the computer and maybe even pornography of that sort. That should be enough evidence to get your daughter from him. Hopefully at least it will be a step in the right direction.

All my love to you both,
Journee :)
 

skyspirit

Member
Sorry, I'm Ranting now!!

Journee,

I live in Ohio. I don't know if you have heard about a case of neglect and abuse here involving 5 children---the media is calling this case "The Kenmore Kids". CSB here is rediculous! The kids in this case were locked in a closet by their mother and her lesbian lover for months. They were not permitted out to go to school. They were forced to eat dog crap. The kids eventually escaped. Both women are in jail for life, I believe.

My boyfriend's cousin was Charlie Wright. He and his brother, David, had a neglectful and abusive drug-addicted mother. The children were removed from the home and placed with an aunt and uncle --who provided an EXTREMELY good home to them. The children were back and forth to their mother and then to the aunt and uncle FOR SIX YEARS. This went on and on until they were placed back with their mother one last time. Her boyfriend, Wayne Doyle, beat little Charlie really bad--he was 6 years old at the time. It took Charlie 3 days to die from internal bleeding he received from the beating. He died curled up in a ball on the bathroom floor from being in pain, with his brother by his side. The mother never took him for treatment fearing jail time. The mother and her boyfriend are both in jail now. The brother, David, was sent back with the aunt and uncle--and has had a good life with them. Its really funny to me that when you mention Charlie Wright to ANY Summit County Children's Services worker, they shudder. They KNOW they screwed up sending these kids back! There is now a 2 year limit on keeping abused and neglected children in the system because of Charlie. Also, the mother had a baby BEFORE the kids were removed the first time that died. She 'claims' that she rolled over on to the baby while she was sleeping and smothered her. WE ALL KNOW BETTER!

Back to the case with the boys I have...you can look it up online if you want to. Summit County, Ohio. I can send you the link if you want me to. The court didn't make a big issue of the sexual abuse. The kids (there are 4 of them--i have 2 of the boys) were dependent and neglected. They cited mother's inability to provide for them, her drug abuse, violence, and her mental instability as reason enough.

The court documents do NOT mention how three little boys (at the time they were 5,3, and 1)--the older sis lived elsewhere at the time--were living in the back of a dump truck with no adult supervision overnight and many times during the day. Or, how they huddled up in the back of the truck to stay warm when it rained and stormed at night. The papers failed to mention how eaten up by mosquitos they were, how sunburned they were, or how they wandered around town running the street with no clothes on asking the neighbors for peanut butter sandwiches to eat because their 'mother' had been sleeping now for 4 days after several days of heavy drug use.

The papers do not mention the 3 year old crossing 4 lanes of traffic during rush hour on a busy-as-HELL state route in his underwear, or how he fell out of her car twice because he wasn't in a child safety seat or even buckled up. ITS PATHETIC! I am not sure if any of us will ever know exactly what these children have had to endure. I only get bits and pieces from them from time to time. I think they are trying to forget...

Yet...Mother files a motion for UNSUPERVISED visits! :mad: Originally, the court gave us (the relative caregivers) "full discretion" as to where, when, how, and even IF visits are to take place." They were to be at her mother and father's house, with her mother supervising. Naturally, that wasn't happening. The first visit, the youngest boy fell in a pond behind their house when they went for an UNSUPERVISED walk with the mother. He was ok. We tried a while longer to keep the visits going, in spite of this--demanding that they be supervised. We were ordered and told to try and maintain contact. We tried. She kept showing up late and on drugs, and her mother laughed about "supervision" and said she didn't know what they meant by that.

During the course of the trial for unsupervised visits, they permitted her to visit the children at a paid supervised center. She had 5 visits before our next hearing date. She showed up late for 3 of them, one visit came in EXTREMELY HIGH --to the point where the supervisor noticed--and she missed 2 visits all together. The visits were terminated by the center for lack of payment, drug abuse, and because she showed up late each time, or didn't show up at all.

We went to the last hearing date 2 weeks ago. The CASA/GAL showed up, myself and the aunt that has the youngest boy showed up, mother's attorney
showed up and that was it. We waited for 1/2 hour for her or the father (who had later joined this case when he got out of jail) to show. They never came. They never called. No one had spoke to either of them. Mother's attorney moved for a continuance. The magistrate overruled and dismissed for failure to prosecute. So we revert back to the full discretion ruling. The kids are safe, FOR NOW.

How long do these kids have to suffer because the egg and sperm donors have RIGHTS? These kids are trying to heal and they just keep ripping the scab back off again.

Honestly, it is sickening!

Sorry this is so long. I guess this became more of a RANT than anything. I just don't know what to do...I need permanent custody so I can adopt the boys, but can't hire an attorney at this point financially...

Thats their story. :(

Sky
 

starabby

Junior Member
This all sounds like what is going on with my situation too. My husband sat at the computer nightly and searched the incest sights...and would sit there masterbating to them. He says he wants to live like nudist. He doesnt want to wear clothes or have our little girl wear clothes. I sent him a email...from a address that I made up, asking if he was interested in kiddy porn , if so to respond. He did respond and said he was interested and added it to his contact list. I moved out with our 4 month old daughter and filed for divorce. I have both computers. No one cares what I am telling them. They all say....until he actually does something to her....they cannot do anything. That is soooo sad that he can ruin her life before something can be done. These are all red flags...but no one cares. I am supposed to hand my baby to him every other weekend....Every day...mon through fri from 4-8 and over nights on wed. Something is wrong..and needs to be changed.
 

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
MissouriGal said:
The problem you run into with this, is "neglect" means different things to different people.

It's kind of like the legislator (I can't remember his name) said when they were trying to ban porn and come up with a definition of what exactly "porn" is.

"I can't tell you what it is, but I know it when I see it."

Perhaps you should call your local CPS office and see what their definition of neglect would be, and what it takes to get them to act.


My response:

It wasn't a "legislator" who said that. It was U.S. Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart who made the statement in:

JACOBELLIS v. OHIO, 378 U.S. 184 (1964) 378 U.S. 184

. . . and his exact quote was:

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that."

IAAL
 
J

Journee

Guest
The Red Flags

Hello everyone,
I have read Sky and Star's stories and know of Sculptor's, but it was Star who made me really think why is it that the red flags are always ignored? Why are we as the parents who are trying to protect our children ignored? It makes me so :mad: that I cant see an answer. Maybe there isnt one, or and more likely: this is why God gave women such good intuition and the natural instinct to protect children. I wish I had real advice to give. But all I can say is be persistant. Keep good documents of everything. Everyone you talk to, the date, the time, what you talked about. Write down those red flags and never give up! I say that because we cant get help when we know we need it therefore we have no clue what straw it will take to break the camel's back. Here we see big huge red flags but CPS needs an actual action. It's ridiculous. I wish there was a forum like this for CPS workers so we can talk to them about exactly what abuse, neglect and just plain danger mean. Just to get some solid answers, becuase it is the truth that we as mothers will have to undo the damage already done. We will have to pay for the counseling, soothe through the nightmares, etc. when it could have all been avoided.
Sky, I am glad you felt comfortable enough to vent. I know it is hard but there we do care. Anytime, we are here for you.
Star, I think you and Sculptor could compare notes and you might be able to help each other. Your cases are so similiar. Even though you are in different states, what works for you in Ohio, might also work here in Maryland.
Until then, take care ladies.....you are all wonderful, STRONG women.
Tracey
 

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