L
Lil Miss Smarty Panties
Guest
I think I like her...
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Points to ponder
- Thread starter frylover
- Start date
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T
theother
Guest
Awwww, can we keep her?
L
Lil Miss Smarty Panties
Guest
LoL
Only if you promise to walk her.
Only if you promise to walk her.
Whyte Noise
Senior Member
I tell ya what. I'm gonna give everyone a homework assignment.
Look on the world wide web, and find out 2 things.
1.) How much money your state gets from the Federal Government for Child Support Enforcement. What I mean by that, is how much the Fed's give your state, to collect from NCP's. Each state is listed out there, you just might have to hunt for it because I'm not giving out the answer. I want everyone to find it themselves so no one says I'm "skewing" things.
2.) How much money the Federal Government gives your state for Visitation Enforcement.
Then, report back with your findings. I know my states numbers because I looked them up long ago. Once you find out YOUR state's numbers, I think we'll then know why CS is more important than visitation.
Look on the world wide web, and find out 2 things.
1.) How much money your state gets from the Federal Government for Child Support Enforcement. What I mean by that, is how much the Fed's give your state, to collect from NCP's. Each state is listed out there, you just might have to hunt for it because I'm not giving out the answer. I want everyone to find it themselves so no one says I'm "skewing" things.
2.) How much money the Federal Government gives your state for Visitation Enforcement.
Then, report back with your findings. I know my states numbers because I looked them up long ago. Once you find out YOUR state's numbers, I think we'll then know why CS is more important than visitation.
T
theother
Guest
Oh man, BCLM, there's homework? But, I wanted to go watch a movie tonight.
CAPrincess
Member
Okay, BLCM, I'll bite. I'll try to find the numbers for Iowa but in the meantime, here's a little tidbit of info for anyone in Iowa paying or receiving child support.
CSRU has a website where you can check when child support payments were received and distributed:
https://childsupport.dhs.state.ia.us/welcome.asp
Click on "Payment Record". They ask for your case # which should be on any paperwork you receive from them and your SSN. You can also ask that a certified payment record be sent to you from their website. It usually takes about a week.
It's worked wonders for my SO. His ex was constantly complaining she never got the CS until he let it drop that he checked the website every week and according to them, they sent a payment out to her everytime they got one from my SO's workplace. No complaints since.
CSRU has a website where you can check when child support payments were received and distributed:
https://childsupport.dhs.state.ia.us/welcome.asp
Click on "Payment Record". They ask for your case # which should be on any paperwork you receive from them and your SSN. You can also ask that a certified payment record be sent to you from their website. It usually takes about a week.
It's worked wonders for my SO. His ex was constantly complaining she never got the CS until he let it drop that he checked the website every week and according to them, they sent a payment out to her everytime they got one from my SO's workplace. No complaints since.
Whyte Noise
Senior Member
Ok, I'll give you a little hint...
HHS
And just to give you an idea of WHY I said to do this....
In FY 2002, Missouri was give $4.7 MILLION dollars in incentive awards for child support enforcement, meeting a quota for establishing paternity in CS cases, meeting a quota in establishing support orders, meeting a quota in collecting on current payments, meeting a quota on collecting on arrears, and meeting the governments "cost effectiveness" quota.
In FY 2002, Missouri was given $100,000 for visitation enforcement programs such as Parents Fair Share. This program is no longer in existance here.
$4.7 MILLION for CS...
$100,000 for visitation
You do the math....
HHS
And just to give you an idea of WHY I said to do this....
In FY 2002, Missouri was give $4.7 MILLION dollars in incentive awards for child support enforcement, meeting a quota for establishing paternity in CS cases, meeting a quota in establishing support orders, meeting a quota in collecting on current payments, meeting a quota on collecting on arrears, and meeting the governments "cost effectiveness" quota.
In FY 2002, Missouri was given $100,000 for visitation enforcement programs such as Parents Fair Share. This program is no longer in existance here.
$4.7 MILLION for CS...
$100,000 for visitation
You do the math....
CAPrincess
Member
CAPrincess
Member
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cse/pubs/2003/reports/prelim_datareport/table_4.html
ok, ok, how about this?
ok, ok, how about this?
T
theother
Guest
CAPrincess,
I was looking at this.
http://www.childsup.ca.gov/pub/budget/2003/2003appropriation.pdf
I don't know, I think this is it for the enforcement budget. What do you think? I can't find visitation program funds anywhere, but I will keep looking.
I was looking at this.
http://www.childsup.ca.gov/pub/budget/2003/2003appropriation.pdf
I don't know, I think this is it for the enforcement budget. What do you think? I can't find visitation program funds anywhere, but I will keep looking.
CAPrincess
Member
ok, here's something for Iowa.
http://ocse3.acf.dhhs.gov/ext/irg/sps/report.cfm?State=IA&CFID=13012&CFTOKEN=74398929
and something for California.
http://ocse3.acf.dhhs.gov/ext/irg/sps/report.cfm?State=IA&CFID=13012&CFTOKEN=74398929
Come on! Throw me a bone here!
http://ocse3.acf.dhhs.gov/ext/irg/sps/report.cfm?State=IA&CFID=13012&CFTOKEN=74398929
and something for California.
http://ocse3.acf.dhhs.gov/ext/irg/sps/report.cfm?State=IA&CFID=13012&CFTOKEN=74398929
Come on! Throw me a bone here!
fried eggs
Member
One could argue that Child Support Enforcement is better funded because it is supposed to benefit the children, the support being their right while the Visitation Enforcement is left to gasp due to some confusion about whether or not it is to benefit the child or the NCP. I am not arguing the case that a child should not have access to both parents, but pointing out that if we truly did have the childrens best interests at heart, we should be looking at visitation as the child's right as well. If we could enforce that legally, or at least enforce on deliberately absent NCP's that they either needed to attempt to meet the visitation obligation or change the schedule to better suit theirs and the child(ren)'s needs, then maybe we could persuade powers that be of the theory that visitation should be at least as well funded as CS enforcement.
Add in the practical aspect of that an NCP who sees their child regularly is more likely to pay support (not that I think the cause and effect is that simple, but more likely that decent caring people want to support and see their children!) and the real cause of the better funding for the CS enforcement, that the government isn't paying for children when they can find someone else to foot the bill. Which, I don't entirely mind in theory, I don't like paying someone else's way when they are capable of paying it... But like any beuracratic organization of it's size, and then drag in the human element of case workers and judges who have their own prejudices from life experience, it isn't always fair. Nothing is. That is the nature of life. Sucks, don't it?
Add in the practical aspect of that an NCP who sees their child regularly is more likely to pay support (not that I think the cause and effect is that simple, but more likely that decent caring people want to support and see their children!) and the real cause of the better funding for the CS enforcement, that the government isn't paying for children when they can find someone else to foot the bill. Which, I don't entirely mind in theory, I don't like paying someone else's way when they are capable of paying it...
But like any beuracratic organization of it's size, and then drag in the human element of case workers and judges who have their own prejudices from life experience, it isn't always fair. Nothing is. That is the nature of life. Sucks, don't it?Whyte Noise
Senior Member
CAPrincess said:http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cse/pubs/2003/reports/prelim_datareport/table_4.html
ok, ok, how about this?
Nope, that just breaks down what each state collected and if the collections were for someone on state assistance, had never been on state assistance, or had formerly been on assistance but isn't any longer.
Grace_Adler
Senior Member
Ok, I guess I'll add my two cents cuz I'm bored. LOL
1. If I can't find my state's can you help me? LOL
2. I think some good points have been made here and I can really see both sides. I don't think the laws are the greatest either and many of them make absolutely no sense to me. The thing is, I don't think you can come up with anything that is going to be fair to everyone. Someone is always going to get the short end of the stick. You can't please everyone. While I don't think many of these laws are fair, I also can't come up with any solutions to make them so.
3. As far as changing the laws and writing our legislature. Yeah, I know where those letters go. Unless it's a death threat or something similar it goes right in the trash. If it's an email, it gets deleted. Probably after someone has a good laugh over it. Then all they do is send you a little "Thanks for writing." to blow you off and shut you up. (Told you I was jaded and cynical.)
4. Guess what I found out? A friend of mine recently got a job at the local jail. He asked "Do you know what the majority of the people are in jail for down there?" Guess what his answer was. Failure to pay child support. So the jails are overrun with people who don't pay child support. Well, this is a poor area and I'm pretty sure many of these people just can't afford to pay. They've had on the news how this town is in a 2 million dollar deficit (sp) and how people are moving and taking their tax money with them. Jobs here are scarce. Nowadays people don't get a cot in jail, your bed is a peice of concrete where ever you can find it. So they have all this space for "deadbeats" (I use that term loosely) but none for the hardcore criminals. I mean really, go put the murders and rapists in there. Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe and am in favor of child support. I think people should be punished if they are truly holding out. But how do you seperate the true deadbeats from the ones who are trying but just can't seem to make ends meet? So what do they do? They just lump everyone together and I guess they really don't have a choice but to do that. But the thing is, most of these people don't give a damn if they are in jail. They will sit their asses right there. Not only that but you can't pay from in jail. Yes, I think the real deadbeats should be punished but as for coming up with something better and as for being able to collect what's due, I have no clue. If I was that good, I'd be making the laws. Obviously sitting in jail and imposing all these other things isn't doing a damn bit of good. Besides, BLCM already has some good statistics on this. NC doesn't play around either. They don't care what your reason is, if you didn't pay they will say willfully refused to pay, even if you were on your deathbed. They will hold you in contempt and send your butt straight to jail. They will take your ass to the cleaners.
4. Something I've been wondering about is if someone gets state aid for something, not necessarily cash assistance, people say, well why should the taxpayers pay for it? Well, if the person pays sales, property and/or income tax, aren't they a taxpayer too? Isn't their money going towards the same thing? Are they just remimbursing themselves or using something that they are paying for? I was just wondering if that's how it works or if I am all mixed up. LOL
1. If I can't find my state's can you help me? LOL
2. I think some good points have been made here and I can really see both sides. I don't think the laws are the greatest either and many of them make absolutely no sense to me. The thing is, I don't think you can come up with anything that is going to be fair to everyone. Someone is always going to get the short end of the stick. You can't please everyone. While I don't think many of these laws are fair, I also can't come up with any solutions to make them so.
3. As far as changing the laws and writing our legislature. Yeah, I know where those letters go. Unless it's a death threat or something similar it goes right in the trash. If it's an email, it gets deleted. Probably after someone has a good laugh over it. Then all they do is send you a little "Thanks for writing." to blow you off and shut you up. (Told you I was jaded and cynical.)
4. Guess what I found out? A friend of mine recently got a job at the local jail. He asked "Do you know what the majority of the people are in jail for down there?" Guess what his answer was. Failure to pay child support. So the jails are overrun with people who don't pay child support. Well, this is a poor area and I'm pretty sure many of these people just can't afford to pay. They've had on the news how this town is in a 2 million dollar deficit (sp) and how people are moving and taking their tax money with them. Jobs here are scarce. Nowadays people don't get a cot in jail, your bed is a peice of concrete where ever you can find it. So they have all this space for "deadbeats" (I use that term loosely) but none for the hardcore criminals. I mean really, go put the murders and rapists in there. Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe and am in favor of child support. I think people should be punished if they are truly holding out. But how do you seperate the true deadbeats from the ones who are trying but just can't seem to make ends meet? So what do they do? They just lump everyone together and I guess they really don't have a choice but to do that. But the thing is, most of these people don't give a damn if they are in jail. They will sit their asses right there. Not only that but you can't pay from in jail. Yes, I think the real deadbeats should be punished but as for coming up with something better and as for being able to collect what's due, I have no clue. If I was that good, I'd be making the laws. Obviously sitting in jail and imposing all these other things isn't doing a damn bit of good. Besides, BLCM already has some good statistics on this. NC doesn't play around either. They don't care what your reason is, if you didn't pay they will say willfully refused to pay, even if you were on your deathbed. They will hold you in contempt and send your butt straight to jail. They will take your ass to the cleaners.
4. Something I've been wondering about is if someone gets state aid for something, not necessarily cash assistance, people say, well why should the taxpayers pay for it? Well, if the person pays sales, property and/or income tax, aren't they a taxpayer too? Isn't their money going towards the same thing? Are they just remimbursing themselves or using something that they are paying for? I was just wondering if that's how it works or if I am all mixed up. LOL
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