police misconduct and harrassment

[Kimmigirl132]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Ohio
I'd like to know 1) If I have a valid complaint? 2) What would be the correct course of action? and/or 3)What remedies are available to us?
My 22 year old son went to the store yesterday, and was talking to his friend (who was standing at the curb, on a bike). Three bike patrol officers were riding by, and one stopped and asked the young man for his ID. The young man asked "Why? I wasn't doing anything!" The officer said "Just give me your ID" My son continued on his way, saying " Look at this. Where's the cameras?" The officer asked,"Are you his lawyer?" Son replied "No", to which the reply was, "Then shut up". My son, walking off, said "This is crazy". The officer screamed "Hey, dont walk away, come back here!" At that, the other officers jumped on him, pulled his tee shirt over his head, slammed him on the ground,with knees in his back, saying they should mace him for trying to get away. My son screamed out for someone to get his Mom or sister. When I got there, I saw five patrol cars,(one of which had my son in the back,and his friend in another) in addition to the three bike patrol officers. I asked the officer that had my son, what was going on? I was told that my son was jaywalking. I stated that "If that was the case, then why are there all these police officers out here? He advised me to talk to his Sargent. Which I did. When I asked the Sargent what was going on, he very nastily said "Who are you?" When I told him, he said "Well, he's 22 and I don't have to tell you anything" He told me that he couldnt tell me anything without my son's approval. When I turned and asked my son could the officer talk to me, he said "Yeah, as long as he tells the truth" At that the officer turned to me and said" He said "NO" and I have two officers to verify that". Trying to keep this short, I walked away as everyone standing around was screaming out "Harrassment" "Police brutality" "They weren't even doing anything". Eventually, they took my son downtown and let the friend go with two tickets. One for riding on the sidewalk(remember, he was standing there talking), and another for no bell on his bike. My son was charged with obstructing justice and failure to use a pedestrian sidewalk, and put in jail.
While walking back to my car from paying his fine, I looked up the block and saw the Sargents car sitting there. My daughter was driving since my license is suspended for a ticket in another state. As we pulled out of the parking space,the officer pulled up, and put his lights on. He walked up to the side of the call, stating, "Ms ****?" My daughter said yes? He said "Ms ****, You dont have a license!" She stated that she did. After producing the appropriate papers, he asked, "So is **** your mother?" To which she replied, yes. He said"What's up with your mother?" she said"Why don't you ask her?" He said" No, why don't you tell your mother what's up?", gave her back her license and drove off. Now, I'm not very Law savvy, but this seemed like blatant harrassment to me. I also felt that it was a threat. What did he mean by "you tell your mother what's up" Can someone answer these questions for me?

 

[HomeGuru]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Ohio
I'd like to know 1) If I have a valid complaint? 2) What would be the correct course of action? and/or 3)What remedies are available to us?
My 22 year old son went to the store yesterday, and was talking to his friend (who was standing at the curb, on a bike). Three bike patrol officers were riding by, and one stopped and asked the young man for his ID. The young man asked "Why? I wasn't doing anything!" The officer said "Just give me your ID" My son continued on his way, saying " Look at this. Where's the cameras?" The officer asked,"Are you his lawyer?" Son replied "No", to which the reply was, "Then shut up". My son, walking off, said "This is crazy". The officer screamed "Hey, dont walk away, come back here!" At that, the other officers jumped on him, pulled his tee shirt over his head, slammed him on the ground,with knees in his back, saying they should mace him for trying to get away. My son screamed out for someone to get his Mom or sister. When I got there, I saw five patrol cars,(one of which had my son in the back,and his friend in another) in addition to the three bike patrol officers. I asked the officer that had my son, what was going on? I was told that my son was jaywalking. I stated that "If that was the case, then why are there all these police officers out here? He advised me to talk to his Sargent. Which I did. When I asked the Sargent what was going on, he very nastily said "Who are you?" When I told him, he said "Well, he's 22 and I don't have to tell you anything" He told me that he couldnt tell me anything without my son's approval. When I turned and asked my son could the officer talk to me, he said "Yeah, as long as he tells the truth" At that the officer turned to me and said" He said "NO" and I have two officers to verify that". Trying to keep this short, I walked away as everyone standing around was screaming out "Harrassment" "Police brutality" "They weren't even doing anything". Eventually, they took my son downtown and let the friend go with two tickets. One for riding on the sidewalk(remember, he was standing there talking), and another for no bell on his bike. My son was charged with obstructing justice and failure to use a pedestrian sidewalk, and put in jail.
While walking back to my car from paying his fine, I looked up the block and saw the Sargents car sitting there. My daughter was driving since my license is suspended for a ticket in another state. As we pulled out of the parking space,the officer pulled up, and put his lights on. He walked up to the side of the call, stating, "Ms ****?" My daughter said yes? He said "Ms ****, You dont have a license!" She stated that she did. After producing the appropriate papers, he asked, "So is **** your mother?" To which she replied, yes. He said"What's up with your mother?" she said"Why don't you ask her?" He said" No, why don't you tell your mother what's up?", gave her back her license and drove off. Now, I'm not very Law savvy, but this seemed like blatant harrassment to me. I also felt that it was a threat. What did he mean by "you tell your mother what's up" Can someone answer these questions for me?

**A: oh brother. What's up with this post?

 

[Kimmigirl132]

This is an actual event and I asked my questions in the beginning. Should I take your reply as a "I have no idea" ?

 

[Will Busa]

After reading this post, and then the replys to it, I assume that nobody on this board really knows anything about law. It suprises me that someone would come here for help and get such a shi%$y reply! .
It would seem to me, that if someone posts a question that, in another persons opinion, does not make sense, then they should just hit the back button and move on to the next post.
It's not against the law to post mean replys, but it really shows how your parents raised you!

 

[seniorjudge]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Ohio
I'd like to know 1) If I have a valid complaint? 2) What would be the correct course of action? and/or 3)What remedies are available to us?
My 22 year old son went to the store yesterday, and was talking to his friend (who was standing at the curb, on a bike). Three bike patrol officers were riding by, and one stopped and asked the young man for his ID. The young man asked "Why? I wasn't doing anything!" The officer said "Just give me your ID" My son continued on his way, saying " Look at this. Where's the cameras?" The officer asked,"Are you his lawyer?" Son replied "No", to which the reply was, "Then shut up". My son, walking off, said "This is crazy". The officer screamed "Hey, dont walk away, come back here!" At that, the other officers jumped on him, pulled his tee shirt over his head, slammed him on the ground,with knees in his back, saying they should mace him for trying to get away. My son screamed out for someone to get his Mom or sister. When I got there, I saw five patrol cars,(one of which had my son in the back,and his friend in another) in addition to the three bike patrol officers. I asked the officer that had my son, what was going on? I was told that my son was jaywalking. I stated that "If that was the case, then why are there all these police officers out here? He advised me to talk to his Sargent. Which I did. When I asked the Sargent what was going on, he very nastily said "Who are you?" When I told him, he said "Well, he's 22 and I don't have to tell you anything" He told me that he couldnt tell me anything without my son's approval. When I turned and asked my son could the officer talk to me, he said "Yeah, as long as he tells the truth" At that the officer turned to me and said" He said "NO" and I have two officers to verify that". Trying to keep this short, I walked away as everyone standing around was screaming out "Harrassment" "Police brutality" "They weren't even doing anything". Eventually, they took my son downtown and let the friend go with two tickets. One for riding on the sidewalk(remember, he was standing there talking), and another for no bell on his bike. My son was charged with obstructing justice and failure to use a pedestrian sidewalk, and put in jail.
While walking back to my car from paying his fine, I looked up the block and saw the Sargents car sitting there. My daughter was driving since my license is suspended for a ticket in another state. As we pulled out of the parking space,the officer pulled up, and put his lights on. He walked up to the side of the call, stating, "Ms ****?" My daughter said yes? He said "Ms ****, You dont have a license!" She stated that she did. After producing the appropriate papers, he asked, "So is **** your mother?" To which she replied, yes. He said"What's up with your mother?" she said"Why don't you ask her?" He said" No, why don't you tell your mother what's up?", gave her back her license and drove off. Now, I'm not very Law savvy, but this seemed like blatant harrassment to me. I also felt that it was a threat. What did he mean by "you tell your mother what's up" Can someone answer these questions for me?

Q: 1) If I have a valid complaint?
A: No.

 

[panzertanker]

After reading this post, and then the replys to it, I assume that nobody on this board really knows anything about law.

WRONG. Many people on this site are lawyers, judges, debt collectors and paralegals....

It suprises me that someone would come here for help and get such a shi%$y reply! .

Why?

It would seem to me, that if someone posts a question that, in another persons opinion, does not make sense, then they should just hit the back button and move on to the next post.

As you have offerred NO legal advice to this post...you should take your OWN advice and move on too!

It's not against the law to post mean replys, but it really shows how your parents raised you!

Actually, I was raised very well, and my parents are proud of me.
What does that have to do with anything???

OP:
No valid complaint.

 

[RedemptionMan]

What do you want them to say. I would recommend that you tell your son to be more respectful to officers of law. It could have been avoided. Unless you have a video tape with 10 people standing around that could testify in court to the events then you have no case. The police know everything about you and the individuals involved. If you had been driving then you would have joined your son with a trip to the detention center. You could file a complaint but it would not do any good.

There are excellent civil rights attorneys all across the nation do some searching and find one.

 

[justalayman]

What do you want them to say. I would recommend that you tell your son to be more respectful to officers of law. It could have been avoided. Unless you have a video tape with 10 people standing around that could testify in court to the events then you have no case. The police know everything about you and the individuals involved. If you had been driving then you would have joined your son with a trip to the detention center. You could file a complaint but it would not do any good.

There are excellent civil rights attorneys all across the nation do some searching and find one.

R-man I have to agree with you on all points except. There is no requirement for you to be respectful of officers. They enforce the laws. They are not the "polite police". This reminds me of the situation where you used to be able to arrested for flipping off an officer. Unless what you do violates the law they have no right to DEMAND respect. I have met officers that deserve respect as well as some that deserve contempt. That should never be legislated. Enough for the rant <whew> where's the Tylenol

 

[CdwJava]

But walking away from a detention is usually a guarantee that you will get manhandled.

I have no way of knowing if the officers had a valid reason to detain the men or not, but once they WERE detained and the cops were talking to them, common sense would seem to dictate that you can NOT just walk away unless you ask first.

- Carl

 

[justalayman]

But walking away from a detention is usually a guarantee that you will get manhandled.

I have no way of knowing if the officers had a valid reason to detain the men or not, but once they WERE detained and the cops were talking to them, common sense would seem to dictate that you can NOT just walk away unless you ask first.

- Carl

I do agree with you Carl. Sometimes it is best to deal with the possible/presumed harrassment with submission and deal with the charges later. Here though the op states (yes I realize this is one side of the story) that her son was not originally detained. I tend to be wary of that part but that is the statement. Additionally, I know Cali courts, at least at one time, decided police could not require ID from a pedestrian without cause. Not sure if the bicycle part changes that or if the laws in Ohio or their locality made bicycle use on sidewalks illegal. Could be the reasoning behind the whole thing. The SCOTUS ruled this year that a pedestrian had the requirement to release name only to police. Could not require ID.

But with many, many posts on this forum**************....there is more to the story.

 

[CdwJava]

Here though the op states (yes I realize this is one side of the story) that her son was not originally detained.

Correct. She is not a witness - she is a person who is basing her position on the statements of her son and her desire to believe that he is good and innocent. he may well be ... but very often our emotions regarding our kids cloud the possibility that MAYBE they were out of line.

And there is no magical blessing for a detention. When the cops say, "Hey you, come here," or start asking a bunch of questions, you COULD be detained. If they give direction to stay and come to them, actually, you ARE detained. Instead of arguing, when the officer said they weren't through and told the lad to come back or stop - he should have. That being said, I have no idea whether the force used on him was justifiable or not as the officers will have their side of the story and the suspect will have his. Since I wasn't there, I can't speak to the force reasonableness at all.

Additionally, I know Cali courts, at least at one time, decided police could not require ID from a pedestrian without cause.

True.

Not sure if the bicycle part changes that or if the laws in Ohio or their locality made bicycle use on sidewalks illegal.

That's what I would use. If during the night, it's easy ... most bicycles are breaking the law (at least in CA, anyway) when they operate at night. And most jurisdictions have codes against riding on the sidewalks in at least business districts.


- Carl

 

[RedemptionMan]

Correct. She is not a witness - she is a person who is basing her position on the statements of her son and her desire to believe that he is good and innocent. he may well be ... but very often our emotions regarding our kids cloud the possibility that MAYBE they were out of line.

And there is no magical blessing for a detention. When the cops say, "Hey you, come here," or start asking a bunch of questions, you COULD be detained. If they give direction to stay and come to them, actually, you ARE detained. Instead of arguing, when the officer said they weren't through and told the lad to come back or stop - he should have. That being said, I have no idea whether the force used on him was justifiable or not as the officers will have their side of the story and the suspect will have his. Since I wasn't there, I can't speak to the force reasonableness at all.



True.



That's what I would use. If during the night, it's easy ... most bicycles are breaking the law (at least in CA, anyway) when they operate at night. And most jurisdictions have codes against riding on the sidewalks in at least business districts.


- Carl

bicycles break the law? Yeah I quess that is why my YZF R1 is always getting stopped. The cops automatically assume that you have warrants or are a drug dealer. I usually just pull over and wait to see if they want to question me about anything before I proceed. Talk about seterotyping......

 

[CdwJava]

I can't say that I have a clue what a "YZF R1" is, but the phrase we use to describe most (but not all) cyclists out after about 10 PM is "bicycle felons." In general we find that there are only three types of people riding aroudn late at night and in the wee hours of the morning: Those looking to buy dope, those looking to sell dope, and those looking for a convenient car or building to break in to.

Unfortunately for you, it is a universal reality. And the legitimate bicycle riders tend to have all their reflectors and lights, and tend to follow the rules of the road ... not stopping at stop signs and not staying on the right side of the road are two often violated laws. In addition to the reflec6tors and headlight, of course.


- Carl

 

[RedemptionMan]

I can't say that I have a clue what a "YZF R1" is, but the phrase we use to describe most (but not all) cyclists out after about 10 PM is "bicycle felons." In general we find that there are only three types of people riding aroudn late at night and in the wee hours of the morning: Those looking to buy dope, those looking to sell dope, and those looking for a convenient car or building to break in to.

Unfortunately for you, it is a universal reality. And the legitimate bicycle riders tend to have all their reflectors and lights, and tend to follow the rules of the road ... not stopping at stop signs and not staying on the right side of the road are two often violated laws. In addition to the reflec6tors and headlight, of course.


- Carl

http://images.google.com/imgres?img.../images?q=yzf+r1&hl=en&lr=&oi=imagesr&start=1

wow "bicycle felons" I will have to remember that the next time I am harassed oh I meant stopped.....

 

[CdwJava]

wow "bicycle felons" I will have to remember that the next time I am harassed oh I meant stopped.....

You're talking motorcycle ... I'm talking BI-CYCLE.

- Carl