Possible to be exempt from homeowners association Covenants, Codes, and Restrictions?

[kharvel]

What is the name of your state? Washington

I found a great house that I would like to buy as a construction pre-sale in a homeowners community. However, I am very concerned with the Communist-style covenants, codes, and restrictions often associated with a housing community.

Here is an example of a homeowners CC&R in a Tennessee housing community:

http://www.cnidist.com/whoa/ccr.html

I really don't like the part about not having garage sales, no parking of cars on the driveway for a long period of time, no covering of cars, etc, etc. That sounds pretty unAmerican.

I would like to know if it is possible to negotiate for exemption from the CC&R before signing a pre-sale agreement? I am more than happy to pay the annual HOA dues but I don't want to be fined for breaking the CC&R rules.

Does the builder have the power to grant exemption? In fact, one thing I have wondered about is who writes the CC&R for the community even before the first homes go up in the community?

I would appreciate any advice in this matter. Thanks.

 

[mykoleary]

Re: Possible to be exempt from homeowners association Covenants, Codes, and Restrictions?

I would like to know if it is possible to negotiate for exemption from the CC&R before signing a pre-sale agreement? I am more than happy to pay the annual HOA dues but I don't want to be fined for breaking the CC&R rules.

Only if the CC&Rs allow the Declarant that power, which is very unlikely. If you live in an Association, you have to live by the rules.

Weigh the good vs. the bad and make your decison from there.

Realize that if the builder says they can, that the Association very well my sue later that that was not legal, and they will likely win.

If this is in King County, the Declaration is available online by searching for "King County Recorders Office." If you know the development name, you can find the recorded Declaration and read it to see if the Declarant (builder) has this power. My guess is you'll come up empty...

 

[HomeGuru]

What is the name of your state? Washington

I found a great house that I would like to buy as a construction pre-sale in a homeowners community. However, I am very concerned with the Communist-style covenants, codes, and restrictions often associated with a housing community.

Here is an example of a homeowners CC&R in a Tennessee housing community:

http://www.cnidist.com/whoa/ccr.html

I really don't like the part about not having garage sales, no parking of cars on the driveway for a long period of time, no covering of cars, etc, etc. That sounds pretty unAmerican.

I would like to know if it is possible to negotiate for exemption from the CC&R before signing a pre-sale agreement? I am more than happy to pay the annual HOA dues but I don't want to be fined for breaking the CC&R rules.

**A: good luck, you'll get nowhere. But you can try.
********

Does the builder have the power to grant exemption?

**A: yes, in some cases.
********
In fact, one thing I have wondered about is who writes the CC&R for the community even before the first homes go up in the community?

**A: real estate HOA attorneys.
********

I would appreciate any advice in this matter. Thanks.

**A: you are welcome.

 

[kharvel]

I have found the CC&R here:

http://146.129.54.93:8193/imgcache/OPR20000202001302-1-26.pdf

It is a CC&R for a new development called "Liberty Ridge".

The item of interest in the document is Article 5. Under that article, there is the following wording:

"Membership may not be separated from ownership of any lot".

Does it mean that an exemption may not be legal even if the builder/developer is willing to grant an exemption?

My understanding is that a lot does not come under the purview of the CC&R until an amendment to the CC&R is approved to include the lot. In that case, would it be possible to convince the builder not to include a new lot in the amendment to the CC&R? I am going to call the builder and find out what my options are. Any advince is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[mykoleary]

There is no Association w/o lots. W/o an Association there are no CC&Rs, and on. SO, since there is a recorded Declaration, there is an Association, and lots that are members thereof.

There MIGHT be an Ammendment one to your Declaration toinclude most likely: 1) slight lot size changes that may affect allocated interests; 2) parking spot assignment; 3) storage assignment; 4) etc...

There might NOT be an Ammendment.

The reference you make means that the builder can not legally seperate membership in the Association from the owners of lots already in it.

And they are all already in it. You're thought of them not being in it until an approved Ammendment is not correct.

Sorry...

 

[HomeGuru]

I have found the CC&R here:

http://146.129.54.93:8193/imgcache/OPR20000202001302-1-26.pdf

It is a CC&R for a new development called "Liberty Ridge".

The item of interest in the document is Article 5. Under that article, there is the following wording:

"Membership may not be separated from ownership of any lot".

Does it mean that an exemption may not be legal even if the builder/developer is willing to grant an exemption?

My understanding is that a lot does not come under the purview of the CC&R until an amendment to the CC&R is approved to include the lot. In that case, would it be possible to convince the builder not to include a new lot in the amendment to the CC&R? I am going to call the builder and find out what my options are. Any advince is appreciated. Thanks.

**A: nice try. You are always trying to pull some sort of a scam or beat the system. Like your other ones, it simply won't work.

 

[kharvel]

One of the amendments I was referring to is as follows:

http://146.129.54.93:8193/imgcache/OPR20040303002107-1-7.pdf

On page 3, it says the following:

"In the First Amendment, the Original Declarants joined with Quadrant in subjecting Adjacent Real Property 1 "to the terms of the Declaration as permitted by Article Two, [Section One of the Declaration,] making [Adjacent Real Property 1] and the Real Property . . . subject to the terms of the declaration and granting to the Owners of Lots located on [Adjacent Real Property 1] all the rights and benefits to which Members of the Association are entitled".

This gave me the impression that amendments are necessary to subject new adjacent lots to the purview of the CC&R. Perhaps I had interpreted it incorrectly? Let me know.

On a side note, in Washington state, is a real estate agent license still required to obtain a commission even if one is a real estate attorney licensed to practice in Washington state? I was told by a WA state attorney that a real estate license is not necessary for an attorney to negotiate a commission. Thanks.

 

[HomeGuru]

One of the amendments I was referring to is as follows:

http://146.129.54.93:8193/imgcache/OPR20040303002107-1-7.pdf

On page 3, it says the following:

"In the First Amendment, the Original Declarants joined with Quadrant in subjecting Adjacent Real Property 1 "to the terms of the Declaration as permitted by Article Two, [Section One of the Declaration,] making [Adjacent Real Property 1] and the Real Property . . . subject to the terms of the declaration and granting to the Owners of Lots located on [Adjacent Real Property 1] all the rights and benefits to which Members of the Association are entitled".

This gave me the impression that amendments are necessary to subject new adjacent lots to the purview of the CC&R. Perhaps I had interpreted it incorrectly? Let me know.

**A: yes, but that link is not relevant to your issue.
********

On a side note, in Washington state, is a real estate agent license still required to obtain a commission even if one is a real estate attorney licensed to practice in Washington state? I was told by a WA state attorney that a real estate license is not necessary for an attorney to negotiate a commission. Thanks.

**A: no.

 

[mykoleary]

This gave me the impression that amendments are necessary to subject new adjacent lots to the purview of the CC&R.

Read through the original Declaration and pay specific attention to the part about adding real property that is adjacent to the property mentioned in the Declaration at the time of recording.

THEN, read the part on the very front of the Declaration that explains what real property it applied to at the time of recording: over 150 lots(1-138 and A-P). Have you found over 150 Ammendments???

That Ammendment (which I did not read) probably just joins another subdivided plat of property with x number of lots that is adjacent to the original subdivided plat of land with 150+ lots to make the development that much bigger.

One likely reason that this was not all done at one time was lack of money, which has been solved by the development and sale of lost on the original property. Another likely reason is the waiting of zoning variance approvals. Once they got them, they joined everything together. It could be one of these or any number of other reasons that this is the way it was approached. Either way, it was a Declarant right as per you Declaration to do this.

I will give you props for being one of the few folks here to actually find information on their own with little guidance. You're an information digger, just start to do a littl mental digging with the documents you found...

 

[HomeGuru]

Dig it?

 

[kharvel]

Yeah, I got it. Looks like I'll have to either take it or leave it in regards to buying a house in a community with a CC&R. Thanks for all your help.

 

[HomeGuru]

Yeah, I got it. Looks like I'll have to either take it or leave it in regards to buying a house in a community with a CC&R. Thanks for all your help.

**A: you got it.