Post Secondary Support - Pro Se

[gml659]

What is the name of your state? Washington

I am going to Court here in Washington State as the Respondent to my ex-wife's petition that I pay Post Secondary Educational Support (PSES) for my son. Washington is one of thirteen states or so that allow this. Several questions:

I am going in Pro Se and so is she.

Where can I read up on the Legislative History on PSES?
I have looked on the Internet and can find some stuff in Connecticut (sp). I am looking for summarys of legislative wrangling over this.

I am going in Pro Se. What can I do to make myself look the best? Some things I DO KNOW is never use "you" to address the court use "The Court" or "Your Honor". I want to be professional and not look like an idiot.

I am sure that the Court will award PSES. I would like to appeal the award. I was told that it would cost me $250 to appeal it - which is OK. What is the process of appeal? What is the best way to do it? I plan to argue it on Equal Rights of the 14th Amendment - Equality Under the Law.

Thank you to any or all inputs.

GML

 

[rmet4nzkx]

What is the name of your state? Washington

I am going to Court here in Washington State as the Respondent to my ex-wife's petition that I pay Post Secondary Educational Support (PSES) for my son. Washington is one of thirteen states or so that allow this. Several questions:

I am going in Pro Se and so is she.

Where can I read up on the Legislative History on PSES?
I have looked on the Internet and can find some stuff in Connecticut (sp). I am looking for summarys of legislative wrangling over this.

I am going in Pro Se. What can I do to make myself look the best? Some things I DO KNOW is never use "you" to address the court use "The Court" or "Your Honor". I want to be professional and not look like an idiot.

I am sure that the Court will award PSES. I would like to appeal the award. I was told that it would cost me $250 to appeal it - which is OK. What is the process of appeal? What is the best way to do it? I plan to argue it on Equal Rights of the 14th Amendment - Equality Under the Law.

Thank you to any or all inputs.

GML

Why are you already thinking appeal when you already agreed to pay? Appeals can be very tricky. Any way the two of you could work it out?

What is the name of your state? Washington.

My wife filed a summons for me to go back to court in front of a commissioner to have my Child Support Modified so I am forced to pay for my son's college.

(So we don't get into a moral debate I have been planning all along to VOLUNTARILY support him while in college....no problem).

He turns 18 on July 1st.

My ex-wife is under the impression that the commision will order plain old monthly child support ($750/mo. now) because he lives at home and will be going to college. In other words she will get to pocket the money and dole out to him what she thinks is appropriate ---- as she has done in the past.

I don't think it works this way. I think CHSUP as a monthly stipend to his mother stops and the Post Secondary format begins were I pay for only his schooling and secondary expenses either to the school or directly to him.

Who is right?

Secondly. How do these Commisions typically rule? Is there order just bare bones or do they lavishly bestow sums of money? How do they divide the PSE between the parents?

gml

I put these together, now can you explain just what it is you are trying to present, if you already agreed to pay post secondary support?

 

[nextwife]

can you explain just what it is you are trying to present, if you already agreed to pay post secondary support?

I see where he states that he planned to assist his child with his costs of PSE. I looked over his post and was unable to locate where it states he AGREED to pay his EX support while his child was in college?

 

[rmet4nzkx]

That's the point it is not clear what he is asking, it sounds like he is only willing to pay PSE if it only goes to son directly and only for specifically for certain things related to education because he doesn't want his ex to have control of how it is distributed or that she might have use of any of it. At this point in time the child will continue to live with mother and communte to local community college, so things like tuition, room and board are less than they might otherwise be. It will depend on how the Judge rules, but it looks like he migh tbe cutting his nose off to spite his face because they can argue that if the child were to go away to college the PSE expenses could be significantly more. Also the judge may hold the mother responsible for a portion, but if the son were to move away from mom there would still be living expenses just paid to someone else. I really think he should try to reach an agrement on how to distibute the funds rather than assuming he is going to have to appeal, he may end up paying more.

I hate to say this but knowing how college students spend money, it may not be such a bad idea to have the money doled out.

 

[gml659]

In WA. the PSE is to be filed before the child turns 18. She did file prior to him turning 18. PSES was a standard blurb in the Orders when we divorced in 2000. I had no choice, I think, when the PSE was added to the Divorce Decree. Besides I would have agreed to it at the time. Now, I don't agree after years of disrespect by my Son. I don't blame the Son (see below) he has been duped by his mother into thinking that it is "OK" to take your Dad to court.

The divorce was long and VERY bitter. She bad-mouthed me extensively to this child.....I would even use the term "Braiwash". So of course he see's me in the light she has cast me into. Please, I do not wish to get into all this bitter stuff.

I told the EX that I wanted to negotiate directly with my son. She (Ex) wanted her (Ex) and I to write up a contract. I considered it but knowing her past she would make life difficult for me as she has with our Parenting Plan (I am filing Contempt against her on the PP). I would prefer to have a verbal agreement between me and my son. If not, then a Court Order. At least with a Court Order I can take her to Court. I know some of you will criticise (sp) this but I know her too well. Honestly, I think I will do better in Court. I think the Court will order the Son to work. The Ex didn't want him to work.

I personally think that this PSE that is FORCED is for the birds. De-Facto want is happening is my SON is suing me and his mother is his Power of Attorney. Yet, I have to deal with it.

I do hope this clears things for many of you.

Thank you all for the replies so far. More advice would be great.

GML

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Your ex is suggesting just what I suggested working it out between the two of you, write up your contract and let the judge order that, no matter what you say about her, it is you who is continuing this and giving fuel to the whole situation and likely to cost you more if you make the judge write it up. Why on earth would you prefere a child who you consider disrespectful towards you be in control of the money when he hasn't earned that right? You are making your own grief. If you son went away to college it would cost you twice as much. Any way you look at it, it is going to cost you for your inability to act like a reasonable adult.

 

[gml659]

Rmet,

Thank you for the advice. I see your point of view.

How do I appeal the order?

GML

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Rmet,

Thank you for the advice. I see your point of view.

How do I appeal the order?

GML

I'm loosing track on how many threads you have started, you have this, twice and one about geting a RO against yourself. There is nothing to appeal, you and your ex are going to sit down, act like adults and work it out, otherwise the judge will and there will be nothing to appeal because you cannot appeal on grounds of inneffictive counsel when you are pro se, lol Remembering it is your son's best interest, however he is not mature enough to handle finances on his own and his parents are going to try to teach him how to act like an adult by example.

To start with you are going to set aside anamosity and treat each other with respect, that is how he learns to have respect for both of you. Keep in mind the cost if he were to go away to achool and every aspect of the cost of a college student. Now depending on your child's capabilities you may ask that he work or not but at least get good grades (2.5 or better in every class) full load or part time if working and together agree on those expectations, reasonable expectations, then the judge will approve it and there will be no reason to appeal and you will be setting a good example for your son and keeping your original intent.

 

[gml659]

Rmet,

All VERY good advice. The thing is, is that no one has or knows the history here. It would be pages and pages....boring.

I have tried to work stuff out with her in the past. She is always up to all her "tricks". If I was dealing with someone reasonable your advice would be very very prudent.

I was told by a Court Facilitator that I could appeal this. Can you expand on why I cannot?

GML

 

[splcstr2001]

This infuriates me!!!!!!!!
No one helped finance my PSE.
It would have been great to graduate "student loan free", but that just isn't the case for a lot of students these days.
If he is disrespectful now and feels that you "owe him" an education, I agree with you, I'd appeal that ruling too.
I know how ex's can "brainwash" your child against you. It's sad!
Providing him with college will not make him respect you anymore or anyless. (Seems like).
Is there a way to reward him (i.e "reimbursement") of a percentage of college costs? By this, I mean he should work and get a "feel" of what it's like to be responsible, maybe it would change his attitude about it?
You need to find a local attorney, call him/her and ask about this. Surely there is one in your area, or hell, the STATE for that matter that will answer that over the phone or in their office.
Geesh!!!!!!Good luck to you and keep the post up.........I am dying to know how this turns out!!!!!!

 

[gml659]

The Commissioner ordered that I pay 79% of his Education through Summer and Fall of 2004. He said come back for the rest latter. He told us that the ex and son need to explore grants and loans....she hit the roof about the loans.

Washington is only one of ten states that allows this outright. Other states allow it more or less. Some have found it Unconstitutional such as Pennsylvania. Some states see it as a Violation of the 14th Admendment's "equality under the law".

When I mentioned to the Commissioner that some states found it Unconstitutional he sort of looked down. Not his fault - he has to only interpret and enforce the Law - I guess. He is not there to find the Law wrong.

I plan to appeal the LAW itself and/or find a way I can get out of this because of his disrespect. In all honesty, if the State would just stay out of it, eventually he would see he was a jerk and say he was sorry. Once he made up and we hashed it out I know I would pay up --- the Sugar Daddy I am. Why should he now that he has the whole state of Washington behind him? He is not learning any consequences now. What do I have to do? Cut him out of my Will?

There are MANY smart people here but so far no one has given me advice on how to take this up the chain.....to the proverbial, "Supreme Court".

Are there any risks for me proceeding with this Pro Se?

Thanks,

GML

PS I have many links I can post. I would even be willing to post some of my Declaration here if anyone is interested.