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private property

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scuba dad

Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? OH
Is a persons front yard private property? I thought a person can walk up to the front door and knock, or children can retrieve a ball from a yard. No one has said "this is private property, do not enter". Do "private property" signs have to be placed or a fence placed for it to be private property? Does walking across a yard that is not marked or fenced constitute a crime? Cant find it in the ORC.
Thank you in advance.
 


Ohiogal

Queen Bee
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? OH
Is a persons front yard private property? I thought a person can walk up to the front door and knock, or children can retrieve a ball from a yard. No one has said "this is private property, do not enter". Do "private property" signs have to be placed or a fence placed for it to be private property? Does walking across a yard that is not marked or fenced constitute a crime? Cant find it in the ORC.
Thank you in advance.

Yes a front yard is private property. Do you own it? Or does the government own it? If the government owns it, that is public property. (I.e. the street) A yard is deeded to someone. And yes it could constitute a crime -- trespassing to start with.
 

scuba dad

Member
I thought there had to be a verbal warning first. Thank you. How do people get around this by walking across your yard and knocking on your door to socialite sales, pass out flyers, etc. I am a day sleeper. It is bad enough I have to turn the ringer off on my phones. I guess no trespassing signs are useless.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
I thought there had to be a verbal warning first. Thank you. How do people get around this by walking across your yard and knocking on your door to socialite sales, pass out flyers, etc. I am a day sleeper. It is bad enough I have to turn the ringer off on my phones. I guess no trespassing signs are useless.

Do you have a walkway leading up to your door? Trespassing does not mean that someone knocks and it irritates you. YOu being a day sleeper is not everyone else's fault. And note that I said it COULD constitute a crime.
 

scuba dad

Member
OK thank you again. It was nice when I was in the military and had a door sign that said "day sleeper, do not disturb"
 

ecmst12

Senior Member
A no solicitation sign might do a tiny bit of good. A fence with a locking gate would do a lot of good, though it might give package delivery people some trouble.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
"Beware of dog" sign, maybe?

(We have a dog, and the sign - and we're also day sleepers. Having said that, the dog wouldn't harm anything but a skunk. She's more likely to lick you to death :D )
 

scuba dad

Member
I was told that a "beware of dog" sign must be reported to your homeowners insurance and I should expect a rate increase. That is the reason I wanted to stay away from that wording for my fenced in back yard where my Service Dog "relieves" herself. We went with,"NOTICE, Service Dog Control Area" on advise from the folks here. Yet a neighbor has a German Shepard that has bite several people, invisible fence only, and no "beware of dog" sign. Go figure.
 

154NH773

Senior Member
Is a persons front yard private property? I thought a person can walk up to the front door and knock, or children can retrieve a ball from a yard. No one has said "this is private property, do not enter". Do "private property" signs have to be placed or a fence placed for it to be private property? Does walking across a yard that is not marked or fenced constitute a crime?

Yes, your yard is private property.

No one may enter your property without your permission. An unposted property may be considered as implied permission.

In general, even though it is private property, you must post it with a no-trespassing sign if you wish to keep people off. Entering a property that is properly posted with a no trespassing sign (or signs) is a crime of trespass, and you can call the police.

Walking across an unmarked property does not generally constitute trespass, and is not a crime, unless you have given verbal notice to someone to keep off.

Suggestion; Post a sign stating, "No Solicitators, some residents sleeping during the day." A sign stating "Night Worker" may give the impression that no one is home at night and encourage a break-in.
 
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justalayman

Senior Member
The way I read the statute, lacking a sign would not imply permission.


(A) No person, without privilege to do so, shall do any of the following:

(1) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another;
Obviously a sign would remove all doubt.

The problem is most people do not realize the are trespassing when they are. That does not mean it is not a crime. With something like a delivery driver delivering something you ordered there is an implied consent. With a solicitor, they are trespassing unless permission has been given.

So, what do ya do? I suspect the police won't be too frisky to run out and take a report every time somebody knocks on your door. There is little you can do to stop them short of using a locked gate. As far as delivery people go: never seen the videos on the Internet where they just chuck the package ?
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
The way I read the statute, lacking a sign would not imply permission.


(A) No person, without privilege to do so, shall do any of the following:

(1) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another;
Obviously a sign would remove all doubt.

The problem is most people do not realize the are trespassing when they are. That does not mean it is not a crime. With something like a delivery driver delivering something you ordered there is an implied consent. With a solicitor, they are trespassing unless permission has been given.

So, what do ya do? I suspect the police won't be too frisky to run out and take a report every time somebody knocks on your door. There is little you can do to stop them short of using a locked gate. As far as delivery people go: never seen the videos on the Internet where they just chuck the package ?
The police are not going to arrest someone for just knocking on the door. In fact, they have to be there for some negative purpose -- not just knocking on the door to ask a question, see if jr can come out and play, or report the dog is loose.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Caselaw people

Reddy v. Plain Dealer Publishing Co., 2013-Ohio-2329, 98834

Both parties cite a 70-year-old decision from the United State Supreme Court, ****** v. Struthers, 319 U.S. 141, 63 S.Ct. 862, 87 L.Ed. 1313 (1943), as authority in support of their position. {¶ 11} In Struthers, a Jehovah's Witness knocked on doors and rang doorbells to distribute leaflets advertising a religious meeting. She was convicted of violating a city ordinance that made it unlawful "for any person distributing handbills, circulars or other advertisements to ring the door bell, sound the door knocker, or otherwise summon the inmate or inmates of any residence to the door for the purpose of receiving" such materials. The ordinance had been enacted to protect residents from being disturbed in the hours of rest, and to prevent criminals from posing as canvassers. The defendant argued that the ordinance violated her First Amendment rights. {¶12} The Supreme Court of the United States reversed the defendant's conviction, holding that the municipal ordinance prohibiting any person to knock on doors or otherwise summon to the door the occupants of a residence for the purpose of distributing to them handbills or circulars was invalid as applied to the defendant distributing advertisements for a religious meeting. {¶ 13} Struthers differed from the present case in two ways. First, it involved the distribution of religious materials, while the present case involves a publication containing mostly advertisements. Second, Struthers involved an individual knocking on doors and summoning an occupant to the door to receive a leaflet, while the present case involves the depositing of a publication in residents' yards — a much less intrusive method of delivery. Because of these factual differences, Struthers is not directly on point. Nonetheless, the court's reasoning in that case provides some guidance in our analysis of the issue before us, that is, whether a distribution of publications to households without prior consent constitutes trespass. The Struthers court reasoned: Traditionally the American law punishes persons who enter onto the property of another after having been warned by the owner to keep off. * * * We know of no state which, as does the Struthers ordinance in effect, makes a person a criminal trespasser if he enters the property of another for an innocent purpose without an explicit command from the owners to stay away. The National Institute of Municipal Law Officers has proposed a form of regulation to its member cities which would make it an offense for any person to ring the bell of a householder who has appropriately indicated that he is unwilling to be disturbed. This or any similar regulation leaves the decision as to whether distributers of literature may lawfully call at a home where it belongs — with the homeowner himself. A city can punish those who call at a home in defiance of the previously expressed will of the occupant * * *. In any case, the problem must be worked out by each community for itself with due respect for the constitutional rights of those desiring to distribute literature and those desiring to receive it, as well as those who choose to exclude such distributors from the home. (Footnotes omitted and emphasis added.) Id. at 147-149.

and:
{¶ 16} As the court in Struthers reminded us, the right of freedom of speech and press "embraces the right to distribute literature, and necessarily protects the right to receive it." (Citation omitted.) Id. at 143. Indeed, some households may actually enjoy the weekly delivery of the free publication and occasional coupons. To prohibit The Plain Dealer from delivering the publication without first obtaining a consent from each homeowner would hinder a right to receive information embraced by the First Amendment. {¶17} Reddy contends that The PD Wrap-Up comprises exclusively of advertisements and, therefore, is not worthy of any First Amendment protections. First, our own examination of a copy of the publication contained in the record shows that it is comprised of three pages of newspaper content — primarily lifestyle articles — and a crossword puzzle, along with a Parade magazine and advertisements. It does not consist exclusively of advertisements, as Reddy claims. {¶ 18} Second, even if the publication were to comprise exclusively of advertising materials, it has long been established that commercial speech also enjoys the protection of the First Amendment. Virginia State Bd. of Pharmacy v. Virginia Citizens Consumer Council, Inc., 425 U.S. 748, 96 S.Ct. 1817, 48 L.Ed.2d 346 (1976); Linmark Assoc, Inc. v. Willingboro, 431 U.S. 85, 97 S.Ct. 1614, 52 L.Ed.2d 155 (1977). "peech does not lose its First Amendment protection because money is spent to project it, as in a paid advertisement of one form or another." (Citations omitted.) Virginia State Bd. of Pharmacy at 761. Contrary to Reddy's assertion, the mostly commercial nature of The PD Wrap-up does not preclude the protection of the First Amendment.


and:
Holding The Plain Dealer liable for trespassing would turn various groups of citizens who similarly distribute literature door to door without specific consent from the homeowners into trespassers. As the Supreme Court of United States reminded us, "[d]oor to door distribution of circulars is essential to the poorly financed causes of little people." Struthers, 319 U.S. at 145-146, 63 S.Ct. 862, 87 L.Ed. 1313. Although The Plain Dealer is a commercial enterprise, we do not see why it should be treated differently than other distributors of literature under this well-accepted and time-honored practice.
 

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