Pro Se

[panzertanker]

Thanks Hot Toddy. I thought I was going to have to BOIL my hands.

Keep that bottle handy. It looks like there are many people here that enjoy swatting at gnats. Now is anyone surprised?

I am only surprised at BadApple jumping in, he is usually quiet.
Don't piss off the military guy......he can kill you with a ballpoint pen and a nasty look!!!!

 

[Veronica1228]

I am only surprised at BadApple jumping in, he is usually quiet.
Don't piss off the military guy......he can kill you with a ballpoint pen and a nasty look!!!!

Ooh. I like the strong silent type!

 

[ENASNI]

yup

Badapple... oh... well. he's not Da Judge, but I tell ya. whoa!

(right now I am hounding a not so silent type... sheesh he can whine... but he is so chapping my buttermilk right now...)
Better go take a walk... bloodpressure rising cause of him...
Da Judge and The Appleman... 1 bad thing 2 very good things.

 

[meganproser]

Bad Apple: Please read post #6 where I explained that I believe YAG understated the amount of help available via paralegal and that I in turn, overstated it. I then acknowledged the very point that you just made.

WOWS: I have been crying all day from the hurtful comments in this thread . First Ronnie upsets me by informing me that her nickname is sacred because it was used by her deceased brother, then Insane tries to apologize FOR me (a rather bizarre notion to be sure), Toddler invites me to spar with him, my TOY makes her usual frustrated effort to say something , and frankly, after that, I was too distraught to continue reading.

Seriously though, much as I understand your theory that volume makes up for substance, also known as the “many pea brains can eventually combine to make one good brain theory”, I find it tedious to read any of your multi page threads.

It would be ENJOYABLE, if I were able to do the Round Robin Sparring Toddler suggests, but I don’t like going behind the woodshed once the poison ivy is out for the season and I would surely be dragged there if I were to fully indulge myself.

Hence, you must all carry on without me. Bash on, by all means, bash on!

 

[Veronica1228]

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........SPLAT! Ewwwwwwwwwww!!!!!

 

[ENASNI]

Oh TODD!

Todd... Veronica needs that anti-bacterial again...

 

[Veronica1228]

Todd... Veronica needs that anti-bacterial again...

Yes, please hurry Hot Toddy. Having Meg-gnat guts on your hand is so gross. Squishy too!

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Thanks Hot Toddy. I thought I was going to have to BOIL my hands.

Keep that bottle handy. It looks like there are many people here that enjoy swatting at gnats. Now is anyone surprised?

Don't forget to get under your nails......

Gnats.......

Here for good measure:
Oooie Gooie was a worm.
A mighty worm was he.
Oooie Gooie would not squirm.

He sat upon the railroad tracks.

The train he did not see.
Ooooooooooieeeeee
Goooooooooieeeeee
(this is from a cub scout book so it should pass muster)


(This is not from the cub scout song book!)
The Worms Crawl In

The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out,
They crawl in thin
and they crawl out stout.

they bury you deep
in a deep dark hole
they leave you there
to decay and mold

The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out,
They eat your guts
and they spit them out.

the worms crawl in,
the worms crawl out
the worms play pinochole
on your snout

The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out,
The worms play pinochle in your snout,
They eat your guts,
and spit them out,
and then they use them for sauerkraut.

Did you ever see a hearse go by
And thing that someday you'll prob'ly die?
They put you in a little box
And cover you up with dirt and rocks

The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out
The worms play pinochle on your snout
Your guts they turn a slimy green
And then they come out like whipping cream

///////
The worms crawl in and the worms crawl out
The ones that crawl in are lean and thin
The ones that crawl out are fat and stout
Your eyes fall in and your teeth fall out
Your brains come tumbling down your snout

Be merry my friends
Be merry
//////////

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

Bad Apple: Please read post #6 where I explained that I believe YAG understated the amount of help available via paralegal and that I in turn, overstated it. I then acknowledged the very point that you just made.

WOWS: I have been crying all day from the hurtful comments in this thread . First Ronnie upsets me by informing me that her nickname is sacred because it was used by her deceased brother, then Insane tries to apologize FOR me (a rather bizarre notion to be sure), Toddler invites me to spar with him, my TOY makes her usual frustrated effort to say something , and frankly, after that, I was too distraught to continue reading.

Seriously though, much as I understand your theory that volume makes up for substance, also known as the “many pea brains can eventually combine to make one good brain theory”, I find it tedious to read any of your multi page threads.

It would be ENJOYABLE, if I were able to do the Round Robin Sparring Toddler suggests, but I don’t like going behind the woodshed once the poison ivy is out for the season and I would surely be dragged there if I were to fully indulge myself.

Hence, you must all carry on without me. Bash on, by all means, bash on!

(QUOTE) my TOY makes her usual frustrated effort to say something (QUOTE)


I don't get frustrated speaking at you. What ever gave you that idea? It doesn't take much effort to laugh at you either.

Make sure your barbie doll is blonde, because that is about the only toy you could get in this lifetime. She whispered to me to tell you she has no time for you today , and that tomorrow isn't looking good either.

Carry on idiot, you at least knew when you got owned in this thread anyway's. What a miserable existance you must have.

As for your comment towards BA......YOU get tired of reading his posts? You have the longest, idiotic posts on this forum. MEGANPROSER said......SHE SAID.......HE SAID.

I know what your problem is........YOUR STUPID! You came here asking about being slandered on another forum, and no one likes you here.

GEESH! And I only asked for 5 people.

Problem solved folks.

Do you think she figured out who slandered her on that message board yet?

 

[badapple40]

Actually YAG, neither of us gave OP a very good answer. You implied the paralegal is VERY limited in what she can do and I implied the opposite.

This part of my post was completely incorrect: “She can work for you the same way she would work for a member of the Bar.”

A paralegal is permitted to draft documents for any attorney who hires her to do so. A Pro Se cannot hire a paralegal to draft documents for him directly...there would have to be an attorney involved. Thus, the Pro Se cannot delegate as much work to the paralegal as an attorney can.

Sevenout, a better answer to your question is that a paralegal ought to be aware of and adhering to her own State’s laws regarding the practice of law.

You should be asking your cousin for a breakdown of what she is prepared to do to assist you and an estimate of how much work that will leave for you to do.

Para-dicy my TOY! Always a pleasure to see you.

Megan: My apologies. That post, #6, I mostly agree with. Except that YAG was correct as the facts of this case never gave an indication that the paralegal was going to work under the supervision of the attorney, and thus document prep, legal research, or helping in virtually any other way would be verbotten -- as YAG stated. As a blanket statement, that a paralegal can't do anything, well, that I'd disgree with -- but that wasn't what he stated, or at least was not my understanding of what he was saying.

 

[meganproser]

No need to apologize I just wanted you to see that I was aware of my error and agree with what you wrote about the law.

Having said that...

What OP asked was:

if she can help me with all aspects of the case, except physically arguing the case

As you know, the word “help” can be interpreted in many ways. While a paralegal cannot advise, or draft docs, etc., she can provide a Pro Se with pretty much everything he needs, by providing it as RESEARCH materials. It all depends on what the meaning of is, is!

 

[ENASNI]

Megan:

Your answer that a paralegal can do whatever work she can do for an attorney is patently incorrect.

http://www.dcba.org/brief/mayissue/2002/art40502.htm

I turn your attention to:

Canon 2: A legal assistant may perform any task which is properly delegated and supervised by an attorney, as long as the attorney is ultimately responsible to the client, maintains a direct relationship with the client, and assumes professional responsibility for the work product;

Why is that important?

Because when I assign tasks to the paralegal, include legal research, it is incumbent upon me to:
A) Check over the work;
B) Correct problems in the work;
C) Communicate with the client;
D) Assume responsibility for the work to the client and tribunal where the documents are being filed.

In the present case, you are talking about litigation. This individual is not talking about having the paralegal type up documents she already handwrote (e.g. secretarial duties), but rather about having this paralegal engage in substantive document preparation.

We have law clerks, second and third year law students, working in our office. We assign them projects, including pleadings to draft -- but the attorney signs the pleading, the attorney reviews the pleading, the attorney accepts responsibility for the pleading.

The purpose, of course, of this is to ensure accountability -- to the client, to the courts, to the public. Were her paralegal friend/relative to conduct document preparation, except under the direct supervision of an attorney, that would be a gross unauthorized practice of law.

What do you define as *help*... besides, Doc give me another Rx?
What do ... never mind I never meant to get in here... But meg...why do you persist without really giving a back-up.. come-on. I love your sense of humor it is great... but you never back yourself up... I know to back down when I am wrong... what is your prob.. eh?

 

[You Are Guilty]

I will say it again.


A paralegal cannot "help" in the manner requested by the OP.

A paralegal and an attorney can.


And frankly, even just "providing forms" can lead to trouble. See, e.g., http://www.dcba.org/brief/mayissue/2002/art40502.htm

 

[panzertanker]

No need to apologize I just wanted you to see that I was aware of my error and agree with what you wrote about the law.

Having said that...

What OP asked was:

if she can help me with all aspects of the case, except physically arguing the case

As you know, the word “help” can be interpreted in many ways. While a paralegal cannot advise, or draft docs, etc., she can provide a Pro Se with pretty much everything he needs, by providing it as RESEARCH materials. It all depends on what the meaning of is, is!

Historically, the courts of most jurisdictions seem to generally agree that paralegals may not:

a. Give legal advice;

b. Accept cases;

c. Set fees;

d. Appear in court;

e. Plan strategy;

f. Make legal decisions; or

g. Chart directions of a case

 

[meganproser]

YAG: The article you referred shows just how open to interpretation the law is. It’s all about exactly HOW the non-attorney assists.

The coach (paralegal or not) can’t handle the case for him, but she can walk him through every step of the process, by providing him with RESEARCH specific to his needs. She can find him documents that are well written examples of what he needs to draft.

She can provide him with the points and authorities he needs. She is allowed to teach him about procedure. It’s all about her ability to do these things while covering her own ass with adequate documentation that shows OP is making his own decisions, and handling his own case.

Surely, as one whose profession requires the ability to find and exploit the limits of any given law, you recognize how much latitude a legal coach has YAG.

I understand the Pro Se movement is an affront to many in the legal profession.

Ten years ago, who would have guessed the use of pc’s and the Internet would result in an uprising of commoners determined to handle their own legal matters?

Some attorneys will recognize the situation and move forward with it, others will resist. The face of the legal profession is changing and OP’s question calls our attention to the eye of the storm.

I regret the off topic posts to this thread because they distract from an otherwise interesting discussion.