Procuring cause - please clearify

[jm_spm]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? IL

Hi,
We are looking for an apartment.

I found a number of properties in MLS through internet.
After comparing a number of listings we selected properties we are intereset in.
We have drove to selected properties and seen properties from outside, and rejected those we did not like.
We got left with 4 properties, I did research again and tried to get as much as possible on those.

Then we decided to get someone who could help with opinion - we called a realtor whom we briefly met few months ago.
We provided her with MLS numbers of properties and asked her to arrange showings. No contract or other papers were signed.

With every visit we got more and more convinced that she (realtor) is not well qualified and she is was not going get us a good deal. She was not concerned with our business too much.
We decided to get someone else and got a great agent. New agent told us that 1st agent may want to get full comission if she finds out that we want to make an offer on a property she (1st) shown us before.
That sucks!

QUESTIONS:

1)
We did research. We found property. We provided 1st agent with MLS #.
The only thing 1st agent did was contacting selling agent and arranging a showing. It can't be said that we were convinced into buing by 1st agent.
I read forum discussions and found about "procuring cause" thing.
Is this the case here?

2)
Is procuring cause only about "I showed that property to them first" ??

3)
Is there anything I can do to make sure that 2nd agent (who really cares about our business) and not the lousy 1st agent (who was lucky to be the 1st)?

----------------
Thanks.

 

[PghREA]

If you end up with one of the properties that you saw with the first (lousy) agent - that agent is the "procurring cause." She is entitled to a commission even if you did not sign a Buyer Agency agreement with her. However, if she really is that lousy, she may never know that you rented one of the properties that she showed you. Generally, a good agent would contact her and offer her a referral fee.


Procurring cause can be a good thing, especially if the procurring cause agent has spent a lot of time and effort with the buyer. In your case it "sucks" However, your new agent seems to be okay with it. Unfortunately, that's the way the game is played and good agents do play by the rules.

 

[jm_spm]

Re: Procuring cause

If you end up with one of the properties that you saw with the first (lousy) agent - that agent is the "procurring cause." She is entitled to a commission even if you did not sign a Buyer Agency agreement with her.

I just found this:
NAR Professional Standards Procedures - Procuring Cause - An Introduction
A broker is regarded as the "procuring cause" of a sale, so as to be entitled to
commission if his or her efforts are the foundation on which negotiations resulting in
a sale begin. It is the cause originating a series of events which, without break in
their continuity, result in the accomplishment of the prime objective of the
employment of the broker who produces a ready, willing, and able purchaser to buy
real estate on the owner's terms.

I found the property, and I was there to see it from outside before I asked 1st agent to arrange showing. I asked several times about prices of properties sold in last 12 months - got no specific answer - had to do it by myself. I asked how much we can go down with offer price based on what _I_ found in sold properties database - got two answers: 1) "make an offer and I will see what I can do"; 2) "I always tell my clients that prices grow." (What kind of answers are those???).

Does it still make her a "procuring cause".
The only thing she did well was literally leting us in to see?
It seems that I did a ton more procuring than she did...

Procurring cause can be a good thing, especially if the procurring cause agent has spent a lot of time and effort with the buyer. In your case it "sucks" However, your new agent seems to be okay with it. Unfortunately, that's the way the game is played and good agents do play by the rules.

I agree that it protects agents from their clients being stolen by other agent.
You are suggesting that 1st agent spent a lot of time? Not really - we maybe saw 5-6 properties and it was not a quality time. We were very disappointed after we heard from our friends, who are much experienced in homebuying, what we should expect from an agent. She would not take care of our business well.

In this case I did most of work, but I needed someone to show me the property. Why can't I be the procuring cause? I was the "cause" - I originated this "series of events"...

I just hope that there is something in this law that protects me.

What if I buy the property with the 2nd agent, and the 1st agent finds out?
Am I responsible for paying comission? Or is this business between agents only?
I don't want to put my effort into something that is not really my business...

Thanks.

 

[PghREA]

It is between the agents - you don't need to worry about it. (If it happen in my area, I would just give the "lousy" agent a referral fee.) If the "lousy" agent wants to pursue it be ready to write a letter to the "lousy" agent's broker telling him what you told us. Since you did not sign a Buyer's Agency agreement with the 1st agent, you are not obligated to her, you can use any agent you choose.

 

[jm_spm]

Procuring cause - continued

Another one I found:

NAR Professional Standards Procedures - Procuring Cause

Factor #4: Communication and Contact - Abandonment and Estrangement
Many arbitrable disputes will turn on the relationship (or lack thereof) between a broker (often a cooperating broker) and a prospective purchaser. Panels will consider whether, under the circumstances and in accord with local custom and practice, the broker made reasonable efforts to develop and maintain an ongoing relationship with the purchaser.
Panels will want to determine, in cases where two cooperating brokers have competing claims against a listing broker, whether the first cooperating broker actively maintained ongoing contact with the purchaser or, alternatively, whether the broker's inactivity, or perceived inactivity, may have caused the purchaser to reasonably conclude that the broker had lost interest or disengaged from the transaction (abandonment).
In other instances, a purchaser, despite reasonable efforts by the broker to maintain ongoing contact, may seek assistance from another broker. The panel will want to consider why the purchaser "abandoned" the first broker.
In still other instances, there may be no question that there was an ongoing relationship between the broker and purchaser; the issue then becomes whether the broker’s conduct or, alternatively, the broker’s failure to act when necessary, caused the purchaser to terminate the relationship (estrangement). This can be caused, among other things, by words or actions or lack of words or actions when called for. Panels will want to consider whether such conduct, or lack thereof, caused a break in the series of events leading to the transaction and whether the successful transaction was actually brought about through the initiation of a separate, subsequent series of events by the second cooperating broker.

What about this one?

Thanks.

 

[BradleyS]

Found this link, still looking for IL statute


http://www.illinoisrealestatelicenseonline.com/real-estate-terms-glossary-p.html#PROCURINGCAUSE


PROCURING CAUSE


That event originating from another series of events that, without a break in continuity, results in an agent's producing a final buyer. Proximate cause. A broker is the procuring cause of a sale if his or her efforts set in motion an unbroken chain of events that resulted in the sale.

 

[BradleyS]

Found a illinois court of appeal case you might want to read.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=7th&navby=case&no=992734

But just as the other post read.......You shouldn't be financially liable for "procuring cause" damages. This is usually arbitrated by the RE Agents and the Seller, since the "Seller" usually pays the commission.