PSES & Parenting Plan

[gml659]

What is the name of your state? WA.

I was ordered to pay Post Secondary Ed. Support for my 18yo son.

My wife and I have a Parenting Plan.....15yo and 18yo.

Since I am paying Support to the 18yo is the PP still in effect?

I ask because in the PP my wife has been disparaging me to the 18yo which is forbidden in the PP. Can she now "legally" disparage me?

Can I tell the 18yo stuff I wish he knew about his Mom?

GML

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Ask the judge to rule next tme you are in court, otherwise, abide by the current plan and stop looking for reasons to drag your ex into court.

Your child is old enough to start thinking for himself and will realize when this is happening unless you give him reason to believe what his mom says is true if it isn't. From your posts you have given your son ample reason to be upset with you because you have taken things out on him instead of his mother, you are putting him in the middle. There in no court order that can erase the effects of your own actions or behaviors. The court will tire of this if it continues.

 

[gml659]

RMET,

So you are saying that YES the Commisioner/Judge can order the PP in effect for a 18yo. YES, that my ex and myself should be careful about what we say to the 18yo.

When we went to Court, I was respondent, I asked that the Court order Counseling for me my son and even my ex and other son. He ignored it. Maybe he had no choice due the confines of the law.

On appeal can I ask for Counseling as a condition of PSES? Believe it or not I do love my son and want or relationship to work out. This said, he also needs to know my displeasure.

My Ex dragged him (18yo) into this. She was the one that told him everything. He was in California on a road trip and called me screaming at me for filing Contempt on his Mom. I have VERY MUCH documentary evidence on this. I tried to work this out in Counseling but the damage was too severe.

GML

 

[rmet4nzkx]

RMET,

So you are saying that YES the Commisioner/Judge can order the PP in effect for a 18yo. YES, that my ex and myself should be careful about what we say to the 18yo.

When we went to Court, I was respondent, I asked that the Court order Counseling for me my son and even my ex and other son. He ignored it. Maybe he had no choice due the confines of the law.

On appeal can I ask for Counseling as a condition of PSES? Believe it or not I do love my son and want or relationship to work out. This said, he also needs to know my displeasure.

My Ex dragged him (18yo) into this. She was the one that told him everything. He was in California on a road trip and called me screaming at me for filing Contempt on his Mom. I have VERY MUCH documentary evidence on this. I tried to work this out in Counseling but the damage was too severe.

GML

DON"T put words into my mouth.
I said you follow the order.
Bring it up next time you are in court, then let the judge rule.
I said nothing about your ex.
The judge cannot order your ex and your 18 yo son into counseling with you, you have been told this before.
You can ask for things or offer but you cannot dictate anymore, you are not married to your ex and your 18 yo is an adult, I can see why you have the problems you have, you are extreemly controlling!!!!! You are going to try the judges patience and that won't be good.
Quit blaming your ex for what you did, you filed charges against your ex and you involved your 18 yo son. Please be honest with yourself.

 

[snodderly]

The definition of insanity....

Quit blaming your ex for what you did, you filed charges against your ex and you
involved your 18 yo son. Please be honest with yourself.

You keep trying to get a different result by taking the same old action. Can't you see it's time to do something different?

I have a question for you. Your son has plans for school. He and his mother are under the impression that you are going to help pay for school. Your ex wife is notified that you are taking her back to court to try and get out of paying for school. She speaks to son on the phone and relays to him that there is a problem with financing for school because you have decided to fight helping to pay for it. Son gets pissed and calls you. Exactly how is that your ex wife's fault? Is she supposed to stay mum about your actions, pay the expenses and hope she wins in court and gets her money back? Is her, telling your son that you are taking her back to court because of the educational expenses the bad stuff you say she is saying about you?

I am honestly trying to understand the logic that you are following that allows you to believe that your ex wife is evil incarnate because your son is pissed at you for something you did. I really am. I just can't get it though.

I'm dealing with the same kind of control freak that you seem to be. My ex hasn't picked up a phone to talk to his children in over 18 months and you know whose fault it is? It's mine!! I live 4 hours away from him, have sent him countless emails begging him to make contact with them, have offered to do ANYTHING he needed me to do for him to feel comfortable. He is taking me back to court and accusing me of interfering his ability to have a relationship with his children. He says they won't come see him or call him because I say terrible thing to them about him. Hell, I don't have to say anything....he hangs himself daily.

I have a feeling your son's perspective, his dislike for you is based on your actions and not on anything his mother has said about you. If you don't want her telling your son stuff that you do the stop doing assinine things that are only going to cause him more anger. You really do need to get honest with yourself.

 

[gml659]

Snodderly,

I am pressed for time. This said YOU are doing the best you can in this circumstance. At least you DO want the kids to see their Dad and you make an effort. Your Ex would have NO grounds for Contempt as far as *I* would be concerned.

You confuse my circumstance....which is OK I am too.

1. I wanted to negotiate with my Son. SHE petitioned me for PSES. THEN, SHE got my Son involved in this. She, over the years, has brainwashed this kid against me. PAS.

2. Upon discovering I could do this Pro Se *I* filed Contempt against her for years of violating the PP. Long story of why I am doing this Pro Se and put up with this for so long.

3. She told both kids about this Contempt. Of course the 18yo got pissed. I expected this. I have a whole lot of documentary evidence to support Contempt. Washington State frowns on getting the Children involved in legal battles. She tried to get my 15yo to write a Declaration against me. She called him on his Cell Phone as I had dinner with him. He told her," NO, NO, NO, NO.....NO MOM" as I sat there. After the phone call he sat there shaking afraid she would show up at the restaurant and yell at him (See Rideout link I put up page 5 #10 to see what the State thinks about Declarations from minor children against a parent).




GML

 

[snodderly]

1. I wanted to negotiate with my Son. SHE petitioned me for PSES. THEN, SHE got my Son involved in this. She, over the years, has brainwashed this kid against me. PAS.

I thought the PSES issue was addressed in the original divorce decree and then when it came time you had a change of heart and wanted to negotiate the issue with your son. From all that I have read so far that is my take on it anyway. If that is true and you did, indeed, try and negotiate with your son after it was already in the divorce decree then your son became involved because of your actions not his mothers'.

2. Upon discovering I could do this Pro Se *I* filed Contempt against her for years of violating the PP. Long story of why I am doing this Pro Se and put up with this for so long.

You have every right to file whatever you wish against her, as long if you have the proof necessary. Did you take into consideration how doing this would cause your children to feel?

What is your goal here? Is it to restore the relationship with your son or to engage in a legal battle with your ex wife? Your relationship with your son is not going to be restored through the court system. Hell, that is only going to make things worse. Your relationship with your son is not going to be restored by constantly engaging in power struggles with their mother either.

My 20 year old has not spoken to his father in two years. Their relationship is so fractured I don't know that it will ever be repaired. Do you know what my son told me? He said all his Dad would have ever had to do was to say, "I"m sorry E**** if I have hurt you, can you forgive me?" It is that simple and basic. That would have been his father owning some of his behavior and showing his son that he was worth having to admit to doing some wrong.


3. She told both kids about this Contempt. Of course the 18yo got pissed. I expected this. I have a whole lot of documentary evidence to support Contempt. Washington State frowns on getting the Children involved in legal battles. She tried to get my 15yo to write a Declaration against me. She called him on his Cell Phone as I had dinner with him. He told her," NO, NO, NO, NO.....NO MOM" as I sat there. After the phone call he sat there shaking afraid she would show up at the restaurant and yell at him (See Rideout link I put up page 5 #10 to see what the State thinks about Declarations from minor children against a parent).

It doesn't matter what Washington State frowns on. It doesn't matter what she has done to her children or what hand she has in their feelings about you. No court system in the world in going to be able to repair your relationship with him. You have an 18 year old who has found himself in the middle of two very angry parents and he has had to make a choice. He has chosen to side with Mom. Life is easier for him I imagine cause that his the parent he is around the most.

Instead of acting in a way that is going to make life easier for your son....you know, no longer engaging in power struggles with an angry ex you keep playing into it. It isn't you or her who is paying the price. It's your son who has been put in the position of having to chose.

I don't care what the state thinks about declarations from minor children. All I can think about after reading your post is that 15 year old kid sitting in a restuarant shaking out of fear his mother would show up and yell at him.

That child needs help and someone needs to step up to the plate and see that he gets it. Write him an email, tell him you love him and that you are sorry for every hurting him and that you will do whatever he needs you to do so that you can be a part of his life. If it means playing nice, nice with the wicked ex wife at times then grin and bare it. Bottom line here is this....when the legal issues are all done what are you going to have left other than your children?
snodderly

 

[topsidder]

gml659,

My husband went throught something similiar. Old DD, kid still in school (High School), but 18.

These sites do offer a venue to vent and some basic free adice. When his ordeal started, I went to these sites and asked a lot of questions. By the time these people were done with me, they had me convinced that regardless of the Decree's date and clear instructions on termination, y husband would have to pay regardless.

Guess what, he made his last payment 3 weeks ago, and she is still in High school! State said he was done.

So..... as nice as it is to have a place to vent, and what you might believe is free advice, remember this ...... you get what you pay for. After 17 years of CS, I have learned but one thing: Fight like HELL! Only take direction from a Judge. And, what ever you do, do not let sites like this dictate your actions.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

gml659,

These sites do offer a venue to vent
So..... as nice as it is to have a place to vent,

This is not a site to VENT, that is one of the problems with all of your posts Topsidder is your insistance on pushing your agendas and venting.

Please don't encourage OP to VENT here, we are trying to get him to seek competent legal advice of an attorney because he is not competent to go pro se!

"Old DD, kid still in school (High School), but 18....Guess what, he made his last payment 3 weeks ago, and she is still in High school! State said he was done." Now the fact that somehow you and your husband have somehow found a way to cease support on a DD adult child is dispicable! That is the last thing in the world you should be proud of

 

[snodderly]

After 17 years of CS, I have learned but one thing: Fight like HELL!

Ahhhh, nothing warms my heart more than someone who goes around encouraging a parent to not support their child. Bet you and the husband went out and celebrated your victory didn't you? Hell, who needs something as pesky and irrelevent as the respect and trust of a child? You guys got the money and ran. Here's hoping one day this husband of yours decides this girls respect and trust in important to him. Here's hoping she feeds him a face full of ass and you are stuck taking care of his wounded sorry ass. I have a feeling the two of you deserve each other. Hey, don't be surprised if you don't get a graduation anouncement.

I have a feeling that gml has a little more concern and caring for his child. Not so sure he is interested in getting out of support. His interest lies in knowing the support is being used in the proper way. Different moral values all together.
snodderly

 

[LdiJ]

gml659,

My husband went throught something similiar. Old DD, kid still in school (High School), but 18.

These sites do offer a venue to vent and some basic free adice. When his ordeal started, I went to these sites and asked a lot of questions. By the time these people were done with me, they had me convinced that regardless of the Decree's date and clear instructions on termination, y husband would have to pay regardless.

Guess what, he made his last payment 3 weeks ago, and she is still in High school! State said he was done.

So..... as nice as it is to have a place to vent, and what you might believe is free advice, remember this ...... you get what you pay for. After 17 years of CS, I have learned but one thing: Fight like HELL! Only take direction from a Judge. And, what ever you do, do not let sites like this dictate your actions.

I would like to point out though that you weren't dealing with the same issues.

 

[LdiJ]

RMET,

So you are saying that YES the Commisioner/Judge can order the PP in effect for a 18yo. YES, that my ex and myself should be careful about what we say to the 18yo.

When we went to Court, I was respondent, I asked that the Court order Counseling for me my son and even my ex and other son. He ignored it. Maybe he had no choice due the confines of the law.

On appeal can I ask for Counseling as a condition of PSES? Believe it or not I do love my son and want or relationship to work out. This said, he also needs to know my displeasure.

My Ex dragged him (18yo) into this. She was the one that told him everything. He was in California on a road trip and called me screaming at me for filing Contempt on his Mom. I have VERY MUCH documentary evidence on this. I tried to work this out in Counseling but the damage was too severe.

GML

Look...here is the bottom line:

You have to pay PSES. It was unrealistic for you to expect that your teenage sons weren't going to be aware that you were trying to "negotiate" your way out of it..or to have conditions placed on it. It is also unrealistic to think that teenagers don't have their OWN opinions.

You are not going to be able to get conditions placed on your son in regards to the PSES....other than the conditions already contained in the laws.

You are not going to be able to not pay PSES during school breaks.

The judge cannot order your 18 year old into counseling with you, or to do anything else either....not on appeal and not in any other way. Give up that idea.

Accept the fact that if you continue to fight with their mother, you are going to continue to have relationship problems with your sons....and lose more and more options for resolving the problems. What exactly do you hope to gain from the contempt case? What benefit is it going to give you? If the only benefit that you will receive from this is the satisfaction of getting the mother in trouble, then maybe you should re-think what you are doing.

Now, the last a final suggestion. Go to an online child support calculator for your state. Run the numbers with you paying child support for 2 kids (it may not match exactly what you are paying), then run the numbers with you paying child support for one child. See what kind of difference the calculator shows...and then you will see how little you are really fighting about.

 

[topsidder]

Ah snodderly, still the righteous one! Actually, we did celebrate. And for the record, I do not advocate non payment of ordered support, be it child or spousal. My husband paid his debt according to the order. Pure and simple. No gifts, no big parties, just the decree said 18, it was dated in 1989, he made every payment, had no arrears, it is over. In his, I prefer ours but, case, the option to continue support for a legally emancipated child is a choice, not a requirement (GA age of majority is 18). And a choice he has made to not continue at the present time.

Your morality arguement is somewhat humourous, but does not work on me.

 

[snodderly]

Your morality arguement is somewhat humourous, but does not work on me.

Oh, topsidder, I would be quite surprised if my "morality argument" worked on you. Not suprised that you find it humorous though. Your posts send a clear message as far as you and your morals....you find the mere idea of morals to be humorous. Go with it!!
snodderly

 

[AHA]

Amazing how some people(figure who on your own) thinks that you stop being a parent and have financial (moral) responsibilities when the child turns 18.
Again, there should be a list of tests people have to pass before they ever have a kid (bio or step) in their lives.
You should be ashamed of yourself, it's f-ing disgraceful.
I wouldn't touch a person (who didn't give a rat's a-s about my kids) like that with a ten foot pole, much less marry the idiot.
No wonder some kids turn out so messed up, with step parents like that.
The future doesn't rely on your survival, it relies on every child's.
Get your messed up priorities straight!!