Question for DebtCollector'

[StephenH]

What is the name of your state? CA

I have been reading around the internet about stories. I listed to NPR on their story about Debt Collections, and one I read in the Boston Globe called "Debtor's hell". I have also read about more and more college kids getting into heavy debt. I have spoke to my friend from colorado, about it and I have concluded the following:

1) I beleive that the credit card companies have engaged in irresponsible marketing practices by:

* Issueing too high of limits to people who cannot afford a credit line that high

* Targeting college kids and others who don't have jobs

* Issuing cards to people shortly after bankruptcy


2) Too little education is done in our public schools to high school kids about debt. I think we need to:

* Restore Consumer & Family Science Instruction

* Include info about debt in that curriculum and ask kids to calculate how fast interest can accrue, and how long things take to pay off

* How to understand and read the "fine print" in contracts carefully


3) We need to regulate the following practices of the credit card industry:

* I would require credit card companies to display the payment amounts for payoff based on time, assuming no future charges. This way, a person who wants to get out of debt can know how much they need to pay each month in order to acheive that.

* I would prohibit minimum payments below the amount that will never acheieve a payoff with a reasonable length of time (for example, one calendar year for each $1000 charged).

* I would qualify people based on their incomes, and make sure the person can pay the amount when maxed out at the rate (Credit Limit on Card/15) must be less than 1/6 of the persons income minus the persons rent to qualify. This would keep low income people from getting limits they could not afford!

4) I would also outlaw the following practices of collection to prevent people from being exploited

* Using an old address in order to get a default judgement against a debtor

* Require judges to check the SOL before awarding a judgement, including a default judgement. If the SOL has expired, the case should dismissed with prejudice, and no attorneys fee award issued.


5) I would also reduce the use of these explotation tactics:

* Raising ones interest rate when in default. When a person is having trouble paying, this is the worst thing a creditor can do to them as it only adds to the default

* Give people a way to pay if they cannot pay in full when they default, and are sued. Often it happens that a person does not have the assets to pay a judgement in full, and instead offer "installment agreements" and "offers in compromise" (when a person is unlikely to have the assets over time).

* Requiring credit card companies to make an "easy to read" version of the terms that are simple to understand and not written in laywer language.


What do you think of my recommendations?

 

[TigerD]

What is the name of your state? CA

I have been reading around the internet about stories. I listed to NPR on their story about Debt Collections, and one I read in the Boston Globe called "Debtor's hell". I have also read about more and more college kids getting into heavy debt. I have spoke to my friend from colorado, about it and I have concluded the following:

1) I beleive that the credit card companies have engaged in irresponsible marketing practices by:
* Issueing too high of limits to people who cannot afford a credit line that high
* Targeting college kids and others who don't have jobs
* Issuing cards to people shortly after bankruptcy

You're right, but I believe that fat people should be prohibited from eating fast food and buying sweets too. For that matter, nobody has the ability to think for themselves, except me, so I'll set the laws for your own good. Since smoking is bad, I'll ban it and limit your consumption of alcohol to one six-pack a year. ... Or we can recognize that you can't legislate personal responsibility.

2) Too little education is done in our public schools to high school kids about debt. I think we need to:
* Restore Consumer & Family Science Instruction
* Include info about debt in that curriculum and ask kids to calculate how fast interest can accrue, and how long things take to pay off
* How to understand and read the "fine print" in contracts carefully

The schools already fail to educate students about reading, writing, history, math and science. Why should personal finance be any different? I agree with you, but our education system is effectively broken.

3) We need to regulate the following practices of the credit card industry:
* I would require credit card companies to display the payment amounts for payoff based on time, assuming no future charges. This way, a person who wants to get out of debt can know how much they need to pay each month in order to acheive that.

Okay. They already do -- you just have to do the math.... oh yeah, the schools issue.

* I would prohibit minimum payments below the amount that will never acheieve a payoff with a reasonable length of time (for example, one calendar year for each $1000 charged).

And when someone wants lower payments?

* I would qualify people based on their incomes, and make sure the person can pay the amount when maxed out at the rate (Credit Limit on Card/15) must be less than 1/6 of the persons income minus the persons rent to qualify. This would keep low income people from getting limits they could not afford!

Low income people cannot afford credit period. Unfortunately, you can't legislate morality or responsibility. Oh, for the record, I consider $40,000 to be too low an income for credit cards. If somebody is making less than that, they are probably not intelligent enough to use credit wisely. So yeah, you're right. But it will piss off a lot of hard-working, honest, responsible people just to protect dumb people from themselves. You can't legislate morality or responsibility.

4) I would also outlaw the following practices of collection to prevent people from being exploited
* Using an old address in order to get a default judgement against a debtor

Perhaps we can require everyone to provide DNA samples when they apply for credit. Then we track every movement people make so we know exactly where they are at all times. We could tattoo them with a bar code at birth or insert an RFID tag in their buttocks. Of course there is the pesky little 10th Ammendant and the ursuption of states rights. Wouldn't it just be easier to make it illegal for a debtor to move without providing proper written notice to their creditors?

* Require judges to check the SOL before awarding a judgement, including a default judgement. If the SOL has expired, the case should dismissed with prejudice, and no attorneys fee award issued.

And to prevent creditor abuse we could expand on that. Since by refusing to pay their bill until the SOL has been reached, the debtor is stealing from creditor and ultimately all of society, we could punish both the creditor and the debtor by issuing a judgment for three time the debt amount payable to the federal government. If the person can't pay, there is compulsory involuntary servitude until the debt is paid or they die. The risk level of assignment could be directly related to the level of debt. Someone who only owes $1,000 would be forced to work in a government warehouse for one year, where someone owing $10,000 or more could be sent to Iraq to test body armor.

5) I would also reduce the use of these explotation tactics:
* Raising ones interest rate when in default. When a person is having trouble paying, this is the worst thing a creditor can do to them as it only adds to the default
* Give people a way to pay if they cannot pay in full when they default, and are sued. Often it happens that a person does not have the assets to pay a judgement in full, and instead offer "installment agreements" and "offers in compromise" (when a person is unlikely to have the assets over time).
* Requiring credit card companies to make an "easy to read" version of the terms that are simple to understand and not written in laywer language.

Respectfully, this show a complete lack of understanding of finance, judgments or legal matters. If you can't understand the terms of a written contract, you are to stupid to be signing the contract.

What do you think of my recommendations?

I've had a bit of fun with my responses. The bottom line is you can't legislate to protect people from themselves. Once you start down that road -- there will be no freedom left. People with credit problems get into it on their own. And they would have problems regardless of whether or not they had credit cards or if the interest rate was 10% or 20 percent.

Sure someone will respond that the only reason they had problems was because of an unexpected medical issue. And that excuse is silly. They had problems because they failed to plan. They failed to be responsible. We don't need new cars. We don't need to live in $140,000 houses or have multiple TVs. We don't need credit cards, car payments or the same luxuries as the Smiths down the street. We expect and demand the same lifestyle or better than our parents, without the 25 years of hard work and saving to get there.

If we consumed less and saved more, there would be far fewer medical bills that devistate the family financially. But we can't do that. Americans think they are entitled to new cars and credit cards and stuff bought on credit. Maybe you have a point. Maybe people are too stupid to think for themselves. Maybe people need to have their hands held because they are not responsible enough on their own. But I don't want to live in the society that handles that because there would be no freedom left.

DC

PS: If you want accurate information about anything -- avoid NPR or the Boston Globe. Most media is extremely biased in their coverage of any subject. However, that series in the Globe was proof. Zero. That is the number of professional collectors they interviewed for the articles. Doesn't that say something?

 

[longsally111]

Ok Now

I think DC is right. I think everyone should stop using credit cards and put him out of business !!!!!

 

[moburkes]

I think DC is right. I think everyone should stop using credit cards and put him out of business !!!!!

What about medical bills, cell phones, payday loans, etc? You think his only business is credit cards? I know that you seem to not like collection agencies, but 1. they are just collecting a debt that they have a legal right to collect AND 2. not all collection agencies are bad.

 

[StephenH]

DebtCollector Mentioned:

Originally Posted by StephenH
* Require judges to check the SOL before awarding a judgement, including a default judgement. If the SOL has expired, the case should dismissed with prejudice, and no attorneys fee award issued.

And to prevent creditor abuse we could expand on that. Since by refusing to pay their bill until the SOL has been reached, the debtor is stealing from creditor and ultimately all of society, we could punish both the creditor and the debtor by issuing a judgment for three time the debt amount payable to the federal government. If the person can't pay, there is compulsory involuntary servitude until the debt is paid or they die. The risk level of assignment could be directly related to the level of debt. Someone who only owes $1,000 would be forced to work in a government warehouse for one year, where someone owing $10,000 or more could be sent to Iraq to test body armor.


My Response:

I understand "Refusal" should not be allowed, but I also beleive that "Two Wrongs don't make a right" in terms of the law. I beleive that suing after the SOL expired is illegal, and this should upheld the rights of consumers, especially when a database shows an old address and they were never notified of a judgement against them. Additionally, I am not saying "don't collect after the SOL expired", because one COULD technically collect the debt without suing if the SOL expired.


Additionally, you hit it on the head again here, and are right on:

Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenH
5) I would also reduce the use of these explotation tactics:
* Raising ones interest rate when in default. When a person is having trouble paying, this is the worst thing a creditor can do to them as it only adds to the default
* Give people a way to pay if they cannot pay in full when they default, and are sued. Often it happens that a person does not have the assets to pay a judgement in full, and instead offer "installment agreements" and "offers in compromise" (when a person is unlikely to have the assets over time).
* Requiring credit card companies to make an "easy to read" version of the terms that are simple to understand and not written in laywer language.

Respectfully, this show a complete lack of understanding of finance, judgments or legal matters. If you can't understand the terms of a written contract, you are to stupid to be signing the contract.


My Response:

Part of the problem is that the contracts are in "Mouse Print" and people don't understand the terms of them. I would suggest having a version written at an 8th grade level of the contract so people understand the terms of what will happen if they default very clearly and consisely, and don't have to be a laywer to understand them fully.

Additionally, you mentioned this:

Sure someone will respond that the only reason they had problems was because of an unexpected medical issue. And that excuse is silly. They had problems because they failed to plan. They failed to be responsible. We don't need new cars. We don't need to live in $140,000 houses or have multiple TVs. We don't need credit cards, car payments or the same luxuries as the Smiths down the street. We expect and demand the same lifestyle or better than our parents, without the 25 years of hard work and saving to get there.

If we consumed less and saved more, there would be far fewer medical bills that devistate the family financially. But we can't do that. Americans think they are entitled to new cars and credit cards and stuff bought on credit. Maybe you have a point. Maybe people are too stupid to think for themselves. Maybe people need to have their hands held because they are not responsible enough on their own. But I don't want to live in the society that handles that because there would be no freedom left.


This is very true. We don't need all of this. If people learned to live without some of these things, I bet a lot of other problems would be solved including:

* Global Warming
* Peak Oil
* Suburban Sprawl
* Manners Crisis
* Obesity
* and many others


In regard to the question you posed about spying is I don't think that is nessecary, but I beleive that we should do something about the number of people who get judgements against them because they were served at the wrong address, and if collectors do this knowing and willfully just to get a default judgement (i.e. know the address is wrong and use it intentionally), there should be consequences such as reducing the collectibility of the debt or stopping the prejudgement interest meter until served correctly. If this is an accident due to old databases, there should be some recourse such as a vacating of the judgement and a new court hearing with them served at the right address. Additionally, I think databases should be checked and updated more frequently, and possibly be notified if a change of address has been placed or something.


Last of all,

In regards to credit cards, unfourtanely it is hard to do the following without some kind of a credit card:

* Reserve a Hotel Room
* Rent a car
* Pay a deposit on an item
* Order Purchases Online
* Rent a Video
* and many others (there are some places today which don't take cash)

I think what we need to do for these things is:

* Allow people to pay cash again
* Encourage more acceptance of debit cards
* Maybe create credit cards with very low limits (for example, maybe only $300 to $700)
* Encourage these types of merchants to accept the pre-paid spending cards like the prepaid Visa / Mastercard, and allow the person to reload them when needed.

 

[moburkes]

So, you may need a credit card to do some of those things (I use my debit card instead), but that doesn't mean that you CHARGE the item to the card, and then pay the card off over several months. Reserve the room with the card, then PAY for it with cash/debit card. Pay the deposit with cash, or use the card, then pay it online, immediately, when you get home. Pay for your online purchase with paypal's virtual credit card, then have it deducted from your bank account. Use the credit card or a PRE-PAID credit card to establish the video account, but you still can pay for the transactions with cash. I've learned that if I don't have the cash, I don't buy the item.


Reserve a Hotel Room
* Rent a car
* Pay a deposit on an item
* Order Purchases Online
* Rent a Video
* and many others (there are some places today which don't take cash)

 

[Hungry&Tired]

My two cents

I have cut the use of credit cards from my life for the last 7 years. That has included store cards. I buy everything with cash and already own my own home.

After 7 years my credit score dipped because I had no accounts in standing. All closed. A couple of hits from bogus collections and a default judgement and guess where my score is now.

My story shows you that they reward you for having active credit cards that are paid on time and discourage you from paying in cash if you want a GREAT score. No credit is as bad as bad credit. GO FIGURE!

When along comes the CA's hitting your report with bogus, identity theft or out of date accounts that they reage so that it will stay on your report for the next 5 years at least and you are trying to buy that new house or purchase a new car GREAT! now you have to wait at least 30 days to get that cleared up with the CRA's and fight the CA on an account that is not yours and now your plans are on hold. Oh so you are saying that we should buy old hoopdies that can't get us reliably to work I guess.

As far as the comment about educating children on credit and financing. I SAY YES! why the heck not. We teach them about AIDS and other crisis' affecting the world today. If you don't think the state of affairs with credit isn't a crisis, then why all the new legislation and why does the local Legal Aid Society have a Predatory Lending Project?
I say incorporate it into Math and Social Studies and that all seniors moving on to college should be given seminars on credit cards as they will have tables lined up to greet them in front of their school offering them T-Shirts and MP-3 players.

If that letter from the CA has to be written in plain english that a uneducated person can understand then why not the contract that starts the whole process? They don't put their so-called rewards or benefits in fine print!

I also have a problem with Elitists that look down on all the little people who are so ignorant and they are all knowing. That's why karma usually kicks them in the butt.

Paying my bills on time, not having credit card debt and being responsible did not keep the CA's from doing incredibly illegal things to me and pounding my credit into the dirt. Explain that? Getting default judgements on paid debts or debt that is 20 years old from a company that is no longer in existence and closed before you could pay them but sold your $100 debt and now a CA wants $1,500 bucks. That really killed me when I heard that one.

BTW Debt Collector where in the heck do YOU live that an extravagant house costs 140,000? That would barely get you in a half-decent 1 BR apartment in New York (and I'm talking about Brooklyn, Queens or the Bronx). Better paying your mortgage than someone else's and guess what? If you want to get a 140K house you better have some credit.

See that credit score determines if you can get that job making more than $40K or rent an apartment that you can live safe in.

Let's be honest here. CA's do what they feel they can get away with. Those that value people as human beings are a credit to your industry. Far too many of them are breaking the law like girls skip rope. As a result people are now fighting back and now they are the criminals for exercising their right to due process?

If you respond to anything respond to this.
Do you review the history of the accounts you collect on?

If you see 6 years of on-time payments and then smaller payments and then no payments because minimums have increase 1000% or balances were dropped below existing balances and now the fees pile on will you treat those people with any inkiling of respect?

Do you believe those people shouldn't fight for fair treatment by their creditor and that it should be resolved before being charged off?

If you order sh*t, you eat sh*t. If the CA's had access to all the history of an account and actually reviewed it as they are required to then maybe they could see past the bottom line at times.

I can almost answer for someone in particular. He thinks we should plan for every contingency. OK people you are less human or irresponsible if you don't plan on your spouse dying in a car accident that puts you in the hospital for 6 months or your kid getting leukemia. What happens to your plan if you're only covered for 6 months and this is a longer ordeal?

If you want to fight dirty, get ready to get hit with a pile of sh*t. Many OC's will just charge off an unfair bill instead of rectifying it. That's how your companies get a great deal of your acoounts from those so-called dead-beats.

I am all for living within your means and paying as you go. But paying for a new boat for a slimy DC, who will charge you as much as they can get away with? I say give them hell before you give them a dime. I have to work hard for my money and why should it be any different for any one of us. Make them work for it, I say and maybe they will hesitate when it comes to collecting on that debt that they know deep in their black hearts is not really owed but are going to collect on anyway.

For those of you DC's here who treat people with respect and follow the law
I APPLAUD YOU. May you be contagious and wipe the scum of your industry off the map.

 

[xylene]

Wow.

Every post is whiny rant.

1st is long winded rehash of elementary credit card reforms with healthy side of debtor grief

Debtguy brings a GIGANTIC STRAW MAN as a rebuttle and then expounds on how human worth is in the wallet.

Follow up with a recycling of the ole Debtors Prison Workhouse USA...

Then cap it off with some soft hit woes from a consumer who goes to extremes (not maintianing consumer credit)



I really like the the straw man... If we stop usury... well have to give DNA samples and go into concentration camps with no freedom.

 

[Hungry&Tired]

Wow

There are some testy people in here....

OP expressed opinion on matters that he actually thought about.

Responses came in from Sarcasm City, in Rude County.

Then cap it off with some soft hit woes from a consumer who goes to extremes (not maintianing consumer credit)

I really like the the straw man... If we stop usury...

What exactly is your point on not maintaining consumer credit. Remember that the first definition of usury is lending at an exorbitant amount of interest? Like loan sharks. I like the way they try to clean up the real definition by calling all lending "usury". Why should I pay someone to spend my own money? I don't buy anything I don't have actual money to buy. I had Sears and Home depot call me and ask me why I didn't use my cards in the last year or so and try to complain that I had no balance. If there had been a real benefit to me using the card and paying off the next month I would've used them. There wasn't so I didn't. I wound up closing them. If that is an extreme, well then hell it's an extreme. Like the extreme amount of interest they charge people and early payment penalties that some companies stick in their fine print.

If we stop usury... well have to give DNA samples and go into concentration camps with no freedom.

Now How did we get into DNA and revoking civil liberties.

Sound like the statements of Neo-Cons who are closet liberals to me.

Get arrested for a crime or something you didn't commit and see where your rights are. DNA will be taken depending on the charge.

use an ez-pass to go through tolls or a metro card to use public transportation and see if your comings and goings are not being monitored or can't be tracked.

See our lives are being monitored by that debit/credit card that also pays for the other cards of convenience. They even have a card for the parking meters now in some cities unless you have a pocket full of change. $1 for half hour. Where do you think it will be 10 years from now. Some companies charge a penalty for paper transactions, or shall we say a discount or convenience benefit for electronic ones. Our country is already turning into a huge habitrail and we're the hamsters.

If a law protects 5 innocent people out of 100 it is worthy and neccessary. We'll see how you feel when you are on the receiving end of injustice.

I'll respect any DC in here or their fans when they hold the feet of their colleagues and cohorts who break the law and abuse people to the fire and who can honestly tell me that they don't participate in any deceptive practices, misinformation or other conniving tricks to collect a debt. Until then I will take what you say with a grain of salt because you basically are honorless and have the nerve to come in here taling about morality and responsibility. What hypocrites!

To all others I say be responsible and pay your debts, if you can negotiate all the extra fees that they tack on, do it. If they are trying to rob you blind, Make them earn it!

Cut up your credit cards and open two savings accounts. Make the CC's compete for your business. If you feel they don't appreciate your business don't do business with them, PERIOD! Don't keep all of your money in one bank, even if seperate accounts, pay yourself first, distribute the rest on time and Good Luck!

 

[TigerD]

BTW Debt Collector where in the heck do YOU live that an extravagant house costs 140,000?

I live in Missouri. The house we just bought was $239,000 -- however, there are many properties available for much less. We can afford it. Hell they qualified us for $900,000. I put $110,000 down. I could have purchased a lessor house for cash, but my wife and I are planning to have a few kids and this is what we wanted. But not spending everything you can is part of what I'm talking about. Still, if you cannot afford it, don't buy it.

See that credit score determines if you can get that job making more than $40K or rent an apartment that you can live safe in.

You are one of the few people that has recognized that credit score impacts your job. Something that people don't realize is when you are applying for a job with an income more than $75,000 a year, the credit report goes back 10 years.

If you respond to anything respond to this.
Do you review the history of the accounts you collect on?

Not personally. That is something that is done by the sales rep with client and then by the collectors on the floor. I don't look at an account until I have to deal with the debtor for some reason. That is usually referring to legal or handling a person that thinks they shouldn't have to pay for some reason.

If you see 6 years of on-time payments and then smaller payments and then no payments because minimums have increase 1000% or balances were dropped below existing balances and now the fees pile on will you treat those people with any inkiling of respect?

I treat everyone with courtesy -- respect must be earned.

Do you believe those people shouldn't fight for fair treatment by their creditor and that it should be resolved before being charged off?

I believe they have had plenty of opportunities to pay the bill prior to it being place with my agency.

If you order sh*t, you eat sh*t. If the CA's had access to all the history of an account and actually reviewed it as they are required to then maybe they could see past the bottom line at times.

No. The bottom line is why we are in business. Simply put, I don't care why you (the debtor not you personally) stopped paying your bill. Oh, I'll listen -- shoot, I may even ask. But I don't care. When you are in my office, your slate starts with the first call. Are you going to answer our questions and either pay the balance in full or work out a repayment plan? Everything else is just noise.

I can almost answer for someone in particular. He thinks we should plan for every contingency. OK people you are less human or irresponsible if you don't plan on your spouse dying in a car accident that puts you in the hospital for 6 months or your kid getting leukemia. What happens to your plan if you're only covered for 6 months and this is a longer ordeal?

There is a reason we have bankruptcy laws.

I am all for living within your means and paying as you go. But paying for a new boat for a slimy DC, who will charge you as much as they can get away with?

A collector cannot add any fees or interest that wasn't called for in the contract between the debtor and client. As for my boat -- I'm considering one. I want a nice sailboat in the 40-60 ft length but my wife wants a power boat like a Grand Banks. Got a recommendation?

DC

 

[AL HR]

You are one of the few people that has recognized that credit score impacts your job. Something that people don't realize is when you are applying for a job with an income more than $75,000 a year, the credit report goes back 10 years.
DC

I really can't speak on the rest of the topics- not my particular sand box to speak...

However, I did want to mention that at least in my Region of the country, credit scores are not generally used for job applications. What is used is your actual credit report and mainly for bonding purposes. I now work for a Financial Services company of over 10,000 ee's and we don't even pull their credit report. Also be aware, if we did use it during the application process we are required by law to 1) Get your permission and 2) Give you a summary of your rights under the FCRA. We used to pull credit reports, but found it was a poor predictor of theft and we were able to bond our ee's without it.


Also, we can't refuse to hire you because you've filed for bankruptcy.