Questions on contesting tickets

[CaliCat]

What is the name of your state? California

Two friends and I each got speeding tickets. We all want to contest them.

Mine first. I was driving on a road called Vasco between Brentwood and Livermore (the Brentwood up north, not south). I was in a 55-zone and going around a curve that slanted right. I saw a cop parked on the right side of the road and glanced at my spedometer. It said 64-65. Okay, that was speeding. But, before my car was even level with theirs, they had their lights on. Not far before this was a split in the road so it was temporarily a two-lane to allow passing. Right before they merged back a truck whizzed way fast by me. Not 25 yards after this is when I saw the cop car. So I think that they meant to get the truck, especially since their lights were on before I was even level with them. On the citation they wrote me as 78! What options do I have? I wasn't going 78, was going around a turn as it was, and it might be worth mentioning that this road is 17 miles with exactly one cross road. No smaller roads to turn on, nothing. So, for location, they put SB Vasco, South of Tassajarra. That stretch goes more than 10 miles.

The second one is on a road in Brentwood. Again, the one near the Bay Area. The road goes from 25 to 35 to 45 to 55 in less than a mile. It was nighttime, like 11pm. The road is dead straight after a turn before the 25, and the only cars on the road were parked. I was in the car in the passenger seat. The officer pulled her over about 50 yards from the 35 sign. It was in plain view. He clocked her at 45 he said and said she was in a 25 zone. Being so close to the sign, I don't know is the spot she reached that should have been considered 25 or 35 because the sign wasn't reached. Truly she wasn't driving to fast for the conditions-straight road, no traffic, dry. On the ticket the officer write she was clocked at Brentwood Blvd/Hwy 4 and Pine Street. She was pulled over much further ahead than that. Neither of us noticed this until later. I will be moving a week before her court date, so I can't go as a witness.

The last one was on 580N at the Vasco exit into Livermore. Speed limit 65. He was going 85, time about 1am, the speed of most cars on the road, slower than a few. I think 85 is the 85th percentile for that road, maybe 80. But not slower. That section has one slight curve, very slight. Not contesting the speed, just why his car being the one to be pulled over when he wasn't even the fastest on the road.

So do any of us have options? Thanks. We all need to know fairly soon, with statue numbers or whatever if applicable. Thanks so much.

 

[abezon]

Check out or purchase How to Fight Your Traffic Ticket & Win, by Nolo Press. It contains helpful info on how to prepare for court, attack radar readings, etc.

1. Your argument is that he clocked the truck, not you. You'll need to return to the scene and get measurements so you can calculate the 6 degree arc & show that both you and the truck were in it. Since a radar gun clocks the fastest thing in its range, it clocked the truck. If it clocked you, then attack the callibration, since it was so far off. You do NOT want to say "the radar gun was wrong, your honor, I was only going 9 miles over the limit."

2. Was she going 45? Her best bet might be to go for mitigation. It depends on whether CA requires the State to prove a traffic violation beyond a reasonable doubt or not.

3. Mitigate. Try for traffic school -- if he goes a year without a ticket, the ticket is erased. If he gets a ticket, he pays for that one AND for the traffic school one. "I was going slower than other cars" is not a defense. He might be able to argue that cop clocked someone else, if traffic was heavy.

 

[CaliCat]

At risk of sounding stupid, I don't quite understand how to prove both myself and the truck were there. 6-degree arc? Also, how do I attack the calibration?

On #3. His defense isn't that he was going slower. We have both looked into it for him and keep reading something on the 85th percentile, but nothing with enough info. He was only going that speed due to a medical situation with himself (long story, something medical, not brought on by drugs or anything he could have ever have done)

What is mitigation?

Thank you so much for answering me, even though I have new questions now. I really do appreciate it.

 

[justin2003]

Abezon- these are correct but please allow me to make a few additions to your comments.

'1. Your argument is that he clocked the truck, not you. You'll need to return to the scene and get measurements so you can calculate the 6 degree arc & show that both you and the truck were in it. Since a radar gun clocks the fastest thing in its range, it clocked the truck. If it clocked you, then attack the callibration, since it was so far off. You do NOT want to say "the radar gun was wrong, your honor, I was only going 9 miles over the limit." '

my comment: Did the cop use radar or lidar? If lidar, you do not a have a fighting chance. the best thing you can do is go to the issuing agency or the DA's (whoever handles prosecution of these case and ask for "discovery" on speed surveys on that street. I don't know whether your license hangs in the balance based on these tickets. If it is really worth it to you, hire an engineer (qualify him/her as an expert at trial) and put some reasonable doubt into the commissioner's head.

Also, any witnesses would really help.

"2. Was she going 45? Her best bet might be to go for mitigation. It depends on whether CA requires the State to prove a traffic violation beyond a reasonable doubt or not. "

my comment: Yes, in CA, the moving party must prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

"3. Mitigate. Try for traffic school -- if he goes a year without a ticket, the ticket is erased. If he gets a ticket, he pays for that one AND for the traffic school one. "I was going slower than other cars" is not a defense. He might be able to argue that cop clocked someone else, if traffic was heavy. "

my comment: the "everyone else" excuse has rarely worked in court. If you are going to use that excuse, make sure you bring other witnesses that were there on the same day or your reason will not hold water.

LASTLY: go to court before your first appearnace and request the clerk to consolidate your cases. In this situation, you may be able to negotiate a plea bargain...plea on one, suspend fine or dismiss for plea on the other.

Good luck

 

[StakeDriver]

6 degree Arc

I'll take a stab at what it is:

The radar gun does not shoot a narrow beam out (like a Star Trek phasar) rather the beam spreads out in a pie shape. The further from the source (the radar gun) the wider the beam is and the more objects that might be hit by it. I'm guessing angular difference between the two edges of the beam is 6 degrees. You want to prove that at the point you were hit by the beam, it was wide enough to also pick up the truck.

In CA, the 85th percentile speed does not apply to speed limits marked Maximum as I suspect the 65 was. Your friend who got a ticket for 45 in the 25 on a surface street may be able to get acquitted if the local Traffic Engineer's data indicates the 85th percentile is 45 or above. Speed limits on surface streets are usually a prima-facia limit and are not valid if below the 85th.

If you were ticketed by a CHP officer you are more likely to lose. If you were ticketed by a City Officer, particularly a motor officer, your best hope is they won't show and the judge will dismiss it.

Licensed Land Surveyor, CA

 

[lwpat]

"Check out or purchase How to Fight Your Traffic Ticket & Win, by Nolo Press. "

Many of these books are fairly good but sometimes are out of date. I have not reviewed this particular one but it is not necessary to purchase any book since sufficient information is available for free on the web. It also may not contain the specifics on CA law.

You have three options. One is to just pay the ticket. Bad move.

Option two is to take traffic school if eligible. Call the clerk of court and get approval. You will still have to pay the fine and costs but the ticket will not go on your record. CA accepts online traffic school so that is usually your best bet. For more info:

http://www.trafficschoolonline.com/?lcode=4013

Option three is to contest the ticket. CA allows a Trial by Declaration and can be done entirely by mail. If you lose at this stage the judge will usually still allow traffic school but there is no guarantee. You can still request in writing a new trial and start over with discovery, etc.

If you are interested in Option Three send me an email and I will send some more info. Too long for a forum.
info@speedingticketcentral.com

"She was pulled over much further ahead than that. "

This is not unusual. Often an officer will follow you for a little ways too see if you are weaving, etc. What counts is the speed limit where you are clocked. Naturally he is going to set up in the 25mph zone.

"just why his car being the one to be pulled over when he wasn't even the fastest on the road."

This also is not unusual. When I was on the force the answer to this was:
Have you ever been fishing. Yes
Ever catch all of the fish?