Reasonable Visitation?

[Rushia]

At 3 years old my now 11 year old was diagnosed with ODD. He used medication through his younger years to control it. I kept him on the meds for 3 years but found that the BEST recourse was being consistant. Not long before I removed the medicine he went through the divorce of his parents, his father moving away, his father rarely seeing him, his father not showing up half the time and the other half of the time listen to him talk badly about his mother. Today at 11 he does not act, he reacts and that is where most of his problems lie. I can not say that I saw anywhere in these posts as to how old your child is. Age can have a tremendous amount to do with this. You can not say for a FACT that this is a LEARNED fuction and that he in fact learned it from his father. I suggest as you said, talking to the father again but also as suggested get a second opinion. Your son will be a lot less affected if you can find a new way to deal with his behaviors then to take away his father. To be honest maybe he needs MORE time with dad. If it's as you believe he's picking this up from dad maybe he's doing it to make himself feel closer to his father because 24 hours in a 14 day period is not likely to have the severe effect that this therapist is saying and as I said I think it could POSSIBLY be from the LACK of time he has with dad.

I should have included the age, he's 5. I can say that it is a learned behavior. I WATCHED his grandparents teach him this behavior as I lived with them for 4 years. "You don't have to listen to mommy 'cause we're the bosses around here."

We tried having him spending more time with dad, backfired in my face. Son's behavior became even worse. Dad does the same thing as grandparents, gives him anything and everything he whines (I do mean whine, high squeaky voice) for.

I DO NOT want to take his father away from him, and I do keep stressing this point. Instead of dad taking them whenever he wants, just making it come over whenever he wants.

 

[Rushia]

K.. we have an age now... here's some questions I have...

1. How long have you and his father been apart? You may have already said and sorry if I missed it.
2. Do both your son and your 3 yr old have the same father?
3. If #2 is yes, how does the father treat your daughter? meaning is there any special treatment given to her.
4. How long has this behavior gone on?
5. Has there been any significant changes in any households lately?

1. We seperated when he was 2.5.
2. Yes. 4 months when we seperated.
3. She is starting to exhibit some of the same behavior. On the grandparents end she is almost ignored, son is firstborn grandson in the family and somehow this gave him some special status.
4. 4 years now.
5. I re-married last July, Dad had a new baby in December. (yes these factors have been taken into consideration)

 

[tigger22472]

I believe you when you say you don't want to take him from his dad.. I do. But I also know how therapist can be. For one we are 'taught' so to say to believe someone because they have a degree and that what they think is best. The problem that you are facing is that in front of a judge, which is where you would probably end this up at it would be hard pressed to PROVE this is coming from dad and his family and supervise his visits. If you deny or force him to exercise supervised visitation he can take it to court and say you aren't being 'reasonable'. If you go to the judge with these concerns the judge is more then likely going to make you get a second opinion or bring someone in independently. Again, unless you can prove that these behaviors are coming from dad or his family, and that he can not be controlled AND that these behaviors are making him a danger to himself and others (which you could prove more then likely) dad's not going to get the supervised and more then likely it will go from 'reasonable' to a set time.

 

[Rushia]

I believe you when you say you don't want to take him from his dad.. I do. But I also know how therapist can be. For one we are 'taught' so to say to believe someone because they have a degree and that what they think is best. The problem that you are facing is that in front of a judge, which is where you would probably end this up at it would be hard pressed to PROVE this is coming from dad and his family and supervise his visits. If you deny or force him to exercise supervised visitation he can take it to court and say you aren't being 'reasonable'. If you go to the judge with these concerns the judge is more then likely going to make you get a second opinion or bring someone in independently. Again, unless you can prove that these behaviors are coming from dad or his family, and that he can not be controlled AND that these behaviors are making him a danger to himself and others (which you could prove more then likely) dad's not going to get the supervised and more then likely it will go from 'reasonable' to a set time.

Which is why I have been fighting the issue with her. I don't believe that it would be in son's best interest to be completly seperated from his dad. On the other hand, my son is really getting out of hand. Dad knows that stepdad and I are doing everything in our power and sometimes he really tries to help, but he just gives up too quickly. He'd rather give in to our son than try to do the things that need to be done to help him get better. My son has also been seen by the school therapist and has come to the same conclusion (that this behavior has been taught to him by grandparents and that his father in just going with the flow, but not to the seperation). When he is with his dad and grandparents he isn't so bad because they give him everything he wants just to shut him up. Hence the problems beginning with daughter, as she is basically ignored. Son believes that he is the center of the universe, which makes for severe problems at school, our home and any other place that he goes. Anywhere there are rules. He has already been transferred out of a school for his behavior and he is in KINDERGARTEN. I had to drag him kicking and screaming out of a birthday party this past weekend for hitting another child.....The list goes on.

 

[abstract99]

He's only 5. Writing would take forever and only annoy me in the end. It's mostly play therapy, kinda hard to lie.

Yeah I didn't know how old he was.

 

[Rushia]

Yeah I didn't know how old he was.

Yeah, sorry forgot to include that info. He does like writing though, wouldn't be much of a punishment for him. LOL

 

[tigger22472]

I'm not going to dispute that this could be coming from dad's home. And although I admit that the behavior is severe.. many children from divorced families come home from the NCP's house 'out of hand' so to say. I admit my children were never that severe but it would take a week to reprogram them after visiting with their father. A lot of (not all) NCP's let children get away with things because they don't see them often enough. I know you said that dad saw him more often and it became worse, how long did that last? Maybe it's not one clear answer. I know this therapist, you said, doesn't like meds. It really doesn't matter what this therapist thinks of them... it's what YOU think of them. Sometimes they do help.. maybe dad isn't the only problem. Has he been tested for anything else by anyone besides this therapist or the school counselor?

The Oprah/ Dear Abby, psychological advice aside it does simply fall down to either you get a modification (which could backfire really bad) or you find other ways to resolve this. You don't want to limit his visitation down to less then one day every two weeks or supervise it without a court order because you don't want to risk him filing against you. When that happens you look like the bad guy and take the risk of being taken less serious.

 

[Rushia]

I'm not going to dispute that this could be coming from dad's home. And although I admit that the behavior is severe.. many children from divorced families come home from the NCP's house 'out of hand' so to say. I admit my children were never that severe but it would take a week to reprogram them after visiting with their father. A lot of (not all) NCP's let children get away with things because they don't see them often enough. I know you said that dad saw him more often and it became worse, how long did that last? Maybe it's not one clear answer. I know this therapist, you said, doesn't like meds. It really doesn't matter what this therapist thinks of them... it's what YOU think of them. Sometimes they do help.. maybe dad isn't the only problem. Has he been tested for anything else by anyone besides this therapist or the school counselor?

The Oprah/ Dear Abby, psychological advice aside it does simply fall down to either you get a modification (which could backfire really bad) or you find other ways to resolve this. You don't want to limit his visitation down to less then one day every two weeks or supervise it without a court order because you don't want to risk him filing against you. When that happens you look like the bad guy and take the risk of being taken less serious.

Dad saw him more often for about 5 months. The way that the schedule sits now is that he takes them overnight every other Sat. Anything else is pretty much, he calls, I take them. Which by his choice, isn't very much, cause he "can't handle them".

As far as meds go, I don't believe in them either. My son has been tested by several different school personnel and the outside therapist and all agree that this is not a chemical imbalance that would need medication. He simply needs to be retrained.

If I talk to him about visitation in my home, my hope is that he will have a better understanding of our son's problems, as I do not believe he is really aware of the problem. No matter how much I tell him, it's not the same effect as seeing it for himself. I would only hope that it would be a temporary solution/trial until he could perhaps learn to deal with our son a little better.