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Request for production of documents/child support hearing

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bluesingincat

Junior Member
Wow!

Thank you everyone! lol
The fact is I haven't been ordered by any court tp produce my bank statements, ect. It was a request for production of documents from my ex's attorney. Secondly, my ex has not paid a dime EVER. You would laugh if I told you the outrageously minimal amount of child support our contract stipulates he is to pay. Just for the record, my ex has made a substantially higher income than I for every year he has been in arrearage. The document we had was contractual only and rather complicated. If the opposing attorney wants to subpoena my records from the bank, he has the legal right to do so. BUT, he must meet and prove, the requirements of the exceptions to the right to financial privacy act. The only exceptions that apply would be if:

1. I authorize the release of records, ( no way :cool: )

2. there is reason to believe that the records sought are relevant to a legitimate law enforcement inquiry; ( law enforcement doesn't apply to civil court)

3. The records are part of a search warrant or arrest warrant procedure.(nope)

Even if a subpoena is issued, I have the right to quash it, as long as I do it within 14 days. I have been investigating this issue and I have discovered many things. I personally beleive that producing my bank statements and/or cancelled checks is an invasion of my privacy. Those records don't merely reflect monies, but are records of one's intimate life and record much of what a person does from day to day. I don't have to be "hiding" something to feel I have had my privacy breeched. If I were earning money "under the table", that would be illegal. If the opposing attorney has reason to believe I am breaking the law, then he must provide some evidence as to why he beleives so, to support his request to subpeona my records. The only exception to the privacy act that he would have available to him, would be suspicion of a illegal act on my part in regards to my income. He has no such evidence to support his suspicion. He has never met me. My ex has nothing to base such a belief on either. I live humbly. I am a law abiding citizen with no record of arrest or suspicion. The financial privacy act was enacted for good reason. If my neighbor owed me money from a contractual agreement between us,and he told me he was unemployed and could not pay, but I saw him bring home a mercedes one day and watched as he remodeled his home from top to bottom the next, I would have some evidence to bring in to court to support my request to have his bank records subpeoned. BUT, if he merely didn't pay, proving through his tax returns that he was indeed unemployed, and I requested a subpeona to be signed my the officiating judge because " He might be making money on the side", the judge would laugh me out of court. That's why the act uses specific terms, such as law enforcement investigation. In order for law investigation to take place, there must be a breech of the law, or evidence of a breech. I think you guys are great, though. It is really helpful to hear opposing views.
Peace.
 


bluesingincat

Junior Member
newguyhere said:
I didn't have "proof for my x but I was able to show that on her income she was physically spending more than she made. Info like deeds and such are all public record.

You were able to show evidence that your ex was living beyond her means according to the income she claimed. If you had no evidence of this, then the records would not have been opened just on heresay. That's the point I was making. I have nothing to hide from the courts or from my ex, as far as income is concerned. I just feel that with all the abuse he has done to me and my son, and after all these years with him making a excellent income while his son went without his help, monetarily or emotionally, ( he rarely called our son or asked to see him), it's unfair and intrusive to ask me to open records and invade "my space", just to intimidate me. I don't want him in jail. I don't want them to open his bank records. I don't care if he did or didn't report all of his income. We had a contract. It was a very easy one to uphold. He didn't have to pay for any medical for our son. He didn't have to pay any alimony to me. The monthly amount of CS is less than 1/4 of what he would have paid by the state formula. I asked him repeatedly to just help out. Buy our son a pair of shoes every now and then, help with his school tuition, ect. He wasn't paying child support! If he had done any of those things, I wouldn't have pursued this. But he abused his son, and then ignored his son. I just want what the contract stipulated. Nothing more. My son needs to see that people have to live up to their word. My son needs a car because he just got his license and wants to get a part time job. This will enable me to help him do that. Thanks for the heads up!
 

Whyte Noise

Senior Member
newguyhere said:
The parts of your posts that I put in BOLD text are what I am responding to

I'm sorry but wrong... are yopu guys not listening? I looked the crap up! I looked at that law thing earlier. He can get them.

Wrong again. Here let me but this on a broader scale.... Lets say I am 20 grand in arrears and my x wins the lottery and I never find out about it.... CS would not be required.... including the arrears. You need to go read what that site said.

And YOU are wrong!

You know what? Going by YOUR analogy, my husband shouldn't owe his ex any arrears. When their CS order was set, she wasn't working. She started working after that and her income went up (of course it did... from $0 income a month to whatever she was making). Guess what? HIS CS AMOUNT STAYED THE SAME. Why? because it wasn't modified based on her now working. She worked for 3 years, until their last modification in 2004. Guess what? The arrears he owed for the 3 years she was working, ARE STILL THERE. They weren't wiped out because she was working and making more than he was. They're still there because he was under a court order to pay X amount, and even with CSE taking half his paycheck every week he still wasn't meeting that X amount every month.

Once arrears are owed, the ONLY person that can wipe those out is the CP. In ANY state. Ever heard of the Bradley Amendment? Go read up on it. A judge can not retroactively modify arrears, nor can they eliminate them. If my husband's ex won the lottery last night, he'd STILL owe those arrears to her. You can't just say, "Oh, she hit the Powerball your honor. I shouldn't have to pay the arrears I owe for the last 3 years before she did, because she NOW has money." You owe money for the time before she hit the lottery. The only person that can change that is the CP... they have to "forgive" arrears. Arrears are not modificable in ANY state for ANY reason because of a FEDERAL law. Like I said, read up on the Bradley Amendment.
 

TNBSMommy

Member
legalcuriosity said:
I was under the impression that, in cases where someone is NOT working and gets work, they are to report their new job immediately and file for modification -- even if it's before the 36 month period. Unless this varies state-by-state.

To me, it's just like the other side of the coin: if you lose your job (involuntarily and not because of job performance), you would file for modification over that, even if it hasn't been 36 months.

I believe a job would consider getting a job or losing a job and life affecting situation. If a parent go from unemployed to employed and does not report it and file for modification, that is being dishonest and in essence, cheating the system.


lol, If my ex filed for a modification every time he got a new job, I would not have time to work... I'd be in court every other day.

newguy, I am done argueing with you, I well let EVERYONE else who is telling you you are wrong deal with it...
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
TNBSMommy said:
lol, If my ex filed for a modification every time he got a new job, I would not have time to work... I'd be in court every other day.

newguy, I am done argueing with you, I well let EVERYONE else who is telling you you are wrong deal with it...
You were responding to newguy and yet quoted legalcuriosity. Now what's up with that?

And for your information, newguy is just another identity of someone who was banned from the site earlier.
 

TNBSMommy

Member
I was responding to legalcuriosity's post, lol, I just threw that extra in to newguy at the last minute....


And for your information, newguy is just another identity of someone who was banned from the site earlier.

really... who is it?
 

bluesingincat

Junior Member
Answer to newguyhere

newguyhere said:
Just curious... How far into arrears is he? How much is his monthly payment? Does he ever exercise his right to visitation? Have you been getting any of his tax returns?

Good luck to you. I agree that he should pay. My x with holds my children from me yet I still feel that it is important to pay. For me it was important for me to prove my x's income because she was saying that she wasn't working but I know that she makes money from different places. I just confirmed today that she owns a rental property that I am sure she makes a pretty penny off of so it is back to the subpoena's for me. :o

He is 9 years in arrearage. He was supposed to pay $300 monthly. I have never seen any of his tax returns, but my brother is a head hunter in Chicago and he knows where my ex is employed and in what capacity. My brother has informed me that my ex is very well off financially. My ex has rarely exercised his righ to visitation. As a matter of fact, my son has visited with his father about 2 times a year, or less, usually for a week or 2. Usually it's over after a week when my son calls me to come and get him because his father has become verbally abusive. I know that my son is very hurt by his father and I tell him to remember that his father loves him. I don't know if that's even true, but my son's self esteem will be further damaged if I comment on what a SOB his father is. It is very hard for me to constantly make excuses for his father, especially since he was very physically abusive to me and our son. It's a precarious balance between being honest and at the same time being careful not to say bad things about his father. I have tried to encourage my son to call his father, but my son feels no connection to him. Now that he is a teenager, he has alot of anger towards his father. I'm sorry your ex has been so dishonest with you about her income. Some people abuse the system and that angers me because it only makes it harder for those who are being honest and want to be treated fairly. Good luck to you with your court case and I hope all go well with your family.
 

rm1759

Member
bluesingincat said:
You would laugh if I told you the outrageously minimal amount of child support our contract stipulates he is to pay.

I'm a little confused, What was this contract? Is it a child support order, signed by a judge, or something you and your ex did on your own?
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
The point that has apparently been overlooked in all five pages of this thread is that Wisconsin apparently bases child support on ONLY THE PAYER'S INCOME! So what OP is making is completely and totally moot.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - especially to those so vociferously arguing that OP's financial picture is so incredibly important - shut up and get the facts before yapping the wrong thing all over creation.
 
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haiku

Senior Member
stealth2 said:
The point that has apparently been overlooked in all five pages of this thread is that Wisconsin bases child support on ONLY THE PAYER'S INCOME! So what OP is making is completely and totally moot.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - especially to those so vociferously arguing that OP's financial picture is so incredibly important - shut up and get the facts before yapping the wrong thing all over creation.

and miss the opportunity to get a thread to 6 or 7 pages?......but what do I know, I am just a "pot who met black".....LOL........
 

Ambr

Senior Member
bluesingincat said:
I have never seen any of his tax returns, but my brother is a head hunter in Chicago and he knows where my ex is employed and in what capacity.


Couldn't you......

(1) Go to the court house and file a wage assignment against him? Have it sent to his place of employment --- since your brother knows where he is employed?

(2) Send a questionaire to the employer -- getting updated information on his income, and if there is possibly "autmoatic deposit" made -- get account information?

(3) Possible to get order freezing his bank accounts ???? Seizure?
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
newguyhere said:
This is what I have been saying the whole time! I said in one of my earlier posts that Wis is a % state so I don't see why this is even being argued.

Because you, dude, are the one who keeps arguing that her income is relevant. I grabbed just part of one of your posts, but you went on and on about it repeatedly:

newguyhere said:
It does matter.... If I am paying 800 dollars amonth for my kids because my x claims that she is only making min wage and I go into arrears..... if she takes me to court for back support she needs to be able to prove that she was indeed making what she claimed she was making. The CP might not be legally obligated to inform the court every time that she gets a pay increase but if she is gonna take me to court for pack support then she needs to be prepaired to prove that I am paying her back support based on her correct income. It is impossible for the NCP to know what the CP is making unless they personally provide the info to them.

This is WRONG. Her income is completely moot in WI. For back support, current support, future support. Any effin' support you want to talk about. It is totally meaningless because WI guidelines don't take it into account. Is that truly a difficult concept?
 

djworza

Member
Just to add my 2 cents....I live in WI and just went through a modification hearing. I am the NCP, only MY income matters. Doesn't matter what she makes. 17% of my income for 1 child and 25% of my income for 2 kids. If you earn over $70k there is a slight modification to the percentages used. That's for calculating CS. As for arrearages it doesn't mater if the CP suddenly earnd a gazillion dollars a year....the arrearages are still owed. As for producing records in WI. Opposing counsel can ASK all they want, but until a Judge orders it you are not required by law to provide the information. Of course producing REASONABLE requested info may be a good thing, again, it is not law in WI.

Newguy should do some WI research before he states his version of "fact"
 

abstract99

Senior Member
I'm done with this post ... I don't know why I even bothered.
I already explained that wI was a % state....
I already explained that I was only giving examples as to why NCP might be requesting the info.....
I already stated that she legally doesn't have to provide it without a sourt order........
I already explained different ways to go about this.....
You can't just say that something is not right just cuz you read the first 2 or 3 lines in a child support law....
There are special condition in which may affect CS......
I'm going to bed..... have a nice day.
 
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