school principle got involved

[Mamabear91399]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York

My twins and I have lived apart from their father since 2005. They are in 7th grade in middle school right now. I have been their only advocate so far of protecting them from what goes on at their fathers house 4 hours away from our home. There have been many temporary bench orders keeping him from bringing them there (6 months the longest) for what the judge called poor judgement on their fathers part. That was in supreme court during divorce proceedings. We are now in family court with a different juge & law guardian. I read something about not being allowed to bring up the events in one court about another court. I have a legal aid attorney who is difficult to contact....anyway I got a phone call from my childrens school principle asking me to come in for a meeting. He is alarmed at what my kids have been telling the school psychiatrist. I told him he wasnt telling me anything I dont know and no one seems to care. I told him that when the kids tell the law guardian, he tells my attorney that I am coaching the kids to say these things. He said "I promise you he knows thats not the case" So he asked me to sign a relaese form of the kids records with the psychiatrist. He also told me that my x husband went into the school with papers that he presented to the administrative office as a court ordered change of custody and said he would be taking the kids out of school in the near future. The papers were actually a request for change in custody with a litany of silly alligations against me such as I allow the children to ingest sugar. (yes he is an abussive control freak) Anyway the priciple said that this is a huge red flag and my son told him that his father has been telling him he wont be living with me much longer and they were moving far away so the principle is having my kids wait for me inside the school every day. He is making an appt. to see the law guardian and he asked me for the judges name. So my question is - Is this the light in our dark tunnel??? I know which of the people who answer are merely advocates of the abusive parent (when there is one) so I will keep that in mind. Thank you!

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York

My twins and I have lived apart from their father since 2005. They are in 7th grade in middle school right now. I have been their only advocate so far of protecting them from what goes on at their fathers house 4 hours away from our home. There have been many temporary bench orders keeping him from bringing them there (6 months the longest) for what the judge called poor judgement on their fathers part. That was in supreme court during divorce proceedings. We are now in family court with a different juge & law guardian. I read something about not being allowed to bring up the events in one court about another court. I have a legal aid attorney who is difficult to contact....anyway I got a phone call from my childrens school principle asking me to come in for a meeting. He is alarmed at what my kids have been telling the school psychiatrist. I told him he wasnt telling me anything I dont know and no one seems to care. I told him that when the kids tell the law guardian, he tells my attorney that I am coaching the kids to say these things. He said "I promise you he knows thats not the case" So he asked me to sign a relaese form of the kids records with the psychiatrist. He also told me that my x husband went into the school with papers that he presented to the administrative office as a court ordered change of custody and said he would be taking the kids out of school in the near future. The papers were actually a request for change in custody with a litany of silly alligations against me such as I allow the children to ingest sugar. (yes he is an abussive control freak) Anyway the priciple said that this is a huge red flag and my son told him that his father has been telling him he wont be living with me much longer and they were moving far away so the principle is having my kids wait for me inside the school every day. He is making an appt. to see the law guardian and he asked me for the judges name. So my question is - Is this the light in our dark tunnel??? I know which of the people who answer are merely advocates of the abusive parent (when there is one) so I will keep that in mind. Thank you!

No. It is a sign of a school principal that is intruding and overstepping and has no right to prevent the children's FATHER from coming to the school or attempting to pick up the children without a restraining order specifically preventing that.

Also if the principal or psychiatrist were afraid of the children being neglected and/or abused they don't need YOUR permission to contact anyone. They are mandated reporters and required by law to contact Children Services.

Also, the principal can NOT contact the judge as that would be an ex parte communication which could result in ethical violations.

In other words, the principal is clueless and is NOT going to help your case at all by doing this. HE SHOULD FOLLOW THE DANG LAW. How does the principal even know what the children have TOLD the school psychiatrist unless, of course, the school psychiatrist VIOLATED confidentiality.

So basically you are counting on a bunch of ignorant, unethical individuals to "save the day"? The school psychiatrist and principal should both be fired and the school psychiatrist should lose her license.

 

[BL]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York

My twins and I have lived apart from their father since 2005. They are in 7th grade in middle school right now. I have been their only advocate so far of protecting them from what goes on at their fathers house 4 hours away from our home. There have been many temporary bench orders keeping him from bringing them there (6 months the longest) for what the judge called poor judgement on their fathers part. That was in supreme court during divorce proceedings. We are now in family court with a different juge & law guardian. I read something about not being allowed to bring up the events in one court about another court. I have a legal aid attorney who is difficult to contact....anyway I got a phone call from my childrens school principle asking me to come in for a meeting. He is alarmed at what my kids have been telling the school psychiatrist. I told him he wasnt telling me anything I dont know and no one seems to care. I told him that when the kids tell the law guardian, he tells my attorney that I am coaching the kids to say these things. He said "I promise you he knows thats not the case" So he asked me to sign a relaese form of the kids records with the psychiatrist. He also told me that my x husband went into the school with papers that he presented to the administrative office as a court ordered change of custody and said he would be taking the kids out of school in the near future. The papers were actually a request for change in custody with a litany of silly alligations against me such as I allow the children to ingest sugar. (yes he is an abussive control freak) Anyway the priciple said that this is a huge red flag and my son told him that his father has been telling him he wont be living with me much longer and they were moving far away so the principle is having my kids wait for me inside the school every day. He is making an appt. to see the law guardian and he asked me for the judges name. So my question is - Is this the light in our dark tunnel??? I know which of the people who answer are merely advocates of the abusive parent (when there is one) so I will keep that in mind. Thank you!

The only thing I can think of why a principle would want you to sign release forms for the phycologist records would be to try to intervene in court as a freind of the court .

Otherwise the principle should not be asking you to release these records to him/her.

If the Judge nor the GAL feel it's of no concern , what makes you think the principle will be able to do anything ?

Prior history could be brought in front of the Judge , such as temporary orders keeping him from bringing the child(ren) to his home .

What's at issue though is , what has substantially changed since the last order(s)?

 

[Mamabear91399]

No. It is a sign of a school principal that is intruding and overstepping and has no right to prevent the children's FATHER from coming to the school or attempting to pick up the children without a restraining order specifically preventing that.

Also if the principal or psychiatrist were afraid of the children being neglected and/or abused they don't need YOUR permission to contact anyone. They are mandated reporters and required by law to contact Children Services.

Also, the principal can NOT contact the judge as that would be an ex parte communication which could result in ethical violations.

In other words, the principal is clueless and is NOT going to help your case at all by doing this. HE SHOULD FOLLOW THE DANG LAW. How does the principal even know what the children have TOLD the school psychiatrist unless, of course, the school psychiatrist VIOLATED confidentiality.

So basically you are counting on a bunch of ignorant, unethical individuals to "save the day"? The school psychiatrist and principal should both be fired and the school psychiatrist should lose her license.

Um, first the stip prevents him from picking the kids up from school (why do jump to conclusions like that?) and second they are meeting with child protective services this afternoon (I did forget that part in my haste to get to work) I had to sign a relaese form so the priciple could send the childrens records to the law guardian and the judge and you are most definately one of those I referred to in my last sentence!

 

[Ohiogal]

Um, first the stip prevents him from picking the kids up from school (why do jump to conclusions like that?) and second they are meeting with child protective services this afternoon (I did forget that part in my haste to get to work) I had to sign a relaese form so the priciple could send the childrens records to the law guardian and the judge and you are most definately one of those I referred to in my last sentence!

Then you have shown even more ignorance than in your first post. Have a good life. Oh and btw -- unless the STIP is a RESTRAINING order (CPO) the SCHOOL has no right to enforce it. NONE.

 

[mistoffolees]

No. It is a sign of a school principal that is intruding and overstepping and has no right to prevent the children's FATHER from coming to the school or attempting to pick up the children without a restraining order specifically preventing that.

Also if the principal or psychiatrist were afraid of the children being neglected and/or abused they don't need YOUR permission to contact anyone. They are mandated reporters and required by law to contact Children Services.

Also, the principal can NOT contact the judge as that would be an ex parte communication which could result in ethical violations.

In other words, the principal is clueless and is NOT going to help your case at all by doing this. HE SHOULD FOLLOW THE DANG LAW. How does the principal even know what the children have TOLD the school psychiatrist unless, of course, the school psychiatrist VIOLATED confidentiality.

So basically you are counting on a bunch of ignorant, unethical individuals to "save the day"? The school psychiatrist and principal should both be fired and the school psychiatrist should lose her license.

You forgot one. Why in the world does the Principal know what the kids told the school psychiatrist? Does patient confidentiality not apply in a school setting? Even if it doesn't legally apply, it seems to be a major violation of trust for the psychiatrist to be blabbing about what the kids are telling him.

 

[Ohiogal]

You forgot one. Why in the world does the Principal know what the kids told the school psychiatrist? Does patient confidentiality not apply in a school setting? Even if it doesn't legally apply, it seems to be a major violation of trust for the psychiatrist to be blabbing about what the kids are telling him.

Actually I did put that in there.

How does the principal even know what the children have TOLD the school psychiatrist unless, of course, the school psychiatrist VIOLATED confidentiality.

But watch -- you are pointing out issues and you are going to be accused of siding with ABUSERS.

 

[mistoffolees]

Actually I did put that in there.

Oops. I missed it. Sorry.

But watch -- you are pointing out issues and you are going to be accused of siding with ABUSERS.

I couldn't care less what some nut cases might accuse me of. I detest people who take advantage of kids and it won't bother me if someone makes a stupid accusation. HOWEVER, protecting kids means following due process. In my mind, it's especially sad when someone could make a good case to keep an abuser away from kids and then screws it up by violating due process and presenting a poorly prepared case. In some cases, they do it so badly that the kid ends up with the abuser full time - which is really tragic. Things must be done properly according to all the rules and procedures.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York

My twins and I have lived apart from their father since 2005. They are in 7th grade in middle school right now. I have been their only advocate so far of protecting them from what goes on at their fathers house 4 hours away from our home. There have been many temporary bench orders keeping him from bringing them there (6 months the longest) for what the judge called poor judgement on their fathers part. That was in supreme court during divorce proceedings. We are now in family court with a different juge & law guardian. I read something about not being allowed to bring up the events in one court about another court. I have a legal aid attorney who is difficult to contact....anyway I got a phone call from my childrens school principle asking me to come in for a meeting. He is alarmed at what my kids have been telling the school psychiatrist. I told him he wasnt telling me anything I dont know and no one seems to care. I told him that when the kids tell the law guardian, he tells my attorney that I am coaching the kids to say these things. He said "I promise you he knows thats not the case" So he asked me to sign a relaese form of the kids records with the psychiatrist. He also told me that my x husband went into the school with papers that he presented to the administrative office as a court ordered change of custody and said he would be taking the kids out of school in the near future. The papers were actually a request for change in custody with a litany of silly alligations against me such as I allow the children to ingest sugar. (yes he is an abussive control freak) Anyway the priciple said that this is a huge red flag and my son told him that his father has been telling him he wont be living with me much longer and they were moving far away so the principle is having my kids wait for me inside the school every day. He is making an appt. to see the law guardian and he asked me for the judges name. So my question is - Is this the light in our dark tunnel??? I know which of the people who answer are merely advocates of the abusive parent (when there is one) so I will keep that in mind. Thank you!

The fact that information regarding the potential safety of the children will be coming from outside sources, IS helpful. Maybe not as helpful as you would like, but it will be helpful.

 

[BL]

Oops. I missed it. Sorry.




I couldn't care less what some nut cases might accuse me of. I detest people who take advantage of kids and it won't bother me if someone makes a stupid accusation. HOWEVER, protecting kids means following due process. In my mind, it's especially sad when someone could make a good case to keep an abuser away from kids and then screws it up by violating due process and presenting a poorly prepared case. In some cases, they do it so badly that the kid ends up with the abuser full time - which is really tragic. Things must be done properly according to all the rules and procedures.

If once in court and all the allegations have no merit or are false , one can request the petition to be dismissed and a hearing to determine if the petition is frivolous .

 

[Ohiogal]

The fact that information regarding the potential safety of the children will be coming from outside sources, IS helpful. Maybe not as helpful as you would like, but it will be helpful.

Not really. Not if they are acting unethically or illegally.

 

[Mamabear91399]

The principle was red flagged by x husband visit to school and presenting paper work claiming a change of custody with a heads up of taking kids from the school. There was no change of custody. Prinicple read custody papers I supplied beggining of 6th grade. He is not allowed to take kids from school. My son recently had gone to him (principle) and told him he is afraid to be outside the school bldg during school time (gym & recess) - that his father might take him - because of statements his father has made to him. Principle called pschiatrist into a meeting along with gudance councelor and social worker. They called my son in and psychiatrist asked my son if he was comfortable sharing what he's been telling her. He was and he did. CPS was called and I was called in for a meeting. Everything went from there. He says he would take the bull by the horns since no one is listening to us and I gave him all the information he asked me for.

 

[Mamabear91399]

Priciple spoke to judge. Judge meeting with kids in chambers on Thursday.

 

[Ohiogal]

Priciple spoke to judge. Judge meeting with kids in chambers on Thursday.

HOW did the principal speak to the judge? Because quite frankly, that is an ethical violation if he SPOKE to the judge. And the judge can find himself in a world of hurt. And to back up what I am saying:

http://www.brandeslaw.com/NYFLM Articles/march_2005_fair_trials_and_recusal.htm
Ex Parte Communications

It has been suggested by a recent case involving a justice assigned to the matrimonial part of the Supreme Court (People v. Garson, 4 Misc. 3d 258 (Sup. Ct., Kings Cty. 2004), that if a judge has improper ex parte communications with a party or his counsel, apart from being reversible error, it may serve as a ground for recusal, because such communications would create the appearance of impropriety, if there was no actual impropriety or bias. 22 NYCRR 100.3 (c) (6) provides in part that: 6) ... A judge shall not initiate, permit, or consider ex parte communications, or consider other communications made to the judge outside the presence of the parties or their lawyers concerning a pending or impending proceeding, except: a) Ex parte communications that are made for scheduling or administrative purposes and that do not affect a substantial right of any party are authorized, provided the judge reasonably believes that no party will gain a procedural or tactical advantage as a result of the ex parte communication, and the judge, insofar as practical and appropriate, makes provision for prompt notification of other parties or their lawyers of the substance of the ex parte communication and allows an opportunity to respond; b) A judge may obtain the advice of a disinterested expert on the law applicable to a proceeding before the judge if the judge gives notice to the parties of the person consulted and a copy of such advice if the advice is given in writing and the substance of the advice if it is given orally, and affords the parties reasonable opportunity to respond; c) A judge may consult with court personnel whose function is to aid the judge in carrying out the judge's adjudicative responsibilities or with other judges; d) A judge, with the consent of the parties, may confer separately with the parties and their lawyers on agreed-upon matters; and e) A judge may initiate or consider any ex parte communications when authorized by law to do so.

In Coleman v. Coleman, 61 AD2d 757 (1st Dept.1978), the First Department reversed a temporary support order because it was made by the court after it received an improper ex parte communication from the plaintiff, in violation of Code of Professional Responsibility EC 7-35 and DR 7-110 (B). See also Meislahn v. McCall, 246 AD2d 957 (3d Dept.1999) (ex parte communication with hearing officer in violation of Administrative Procedure Act created appearance of impropriety and bias); Signet Const. Corp v. Golden, 99 AD2d 431 (1st Dept.1984); Bernstein v. Taj Group of Hotels, 235 AD2d 370 (1st Dept.,1997).

So how did the principal SPEAK with the judge regarding your children? Was this a hearing where dad and his counsel were present? Did the principal testify under oath?

 

[mistoffolees]

HOW did the principal speak to the judge? Because quite frankly, that is an ethical violation if he SPOKE to the judge. And the judge can find himself in a world of hurt. And to back up what I am saying:


So how did the principal SPEAK with the judge regarding your children? Was this a hearing where dad and his counsel were present? Did the principal testify under oath?

The whole story is starting to sound pretty fishy.