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Secondary Support - Don't Want To Pay

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gml659

Member
What is the name of your state? Washington.

My son turns 18 in a few months. He will go to college soon after. He, at times has treated me like dirt but now, of course, is sucking up to me because he wants Dad to give him some money for College.

My divorce decree has a "secondary education" stipulation. From what I have read the x-wife has to take me to court be his 18bd for me to by FORCED to pay for an adult. If no order by his 18bd I am free of being FORCED to pay and can then pay as any "normal" parent can pay.

If I do go to court over this will the judge take into account the fact that this kid has basically wanted little to do with me over the years despite the fact I begged and pleaded for a harmonious relationship? That his mother bad mouthed me to no end?

The situation I see is I will be FORCED to pay and then the boy/adult man will once again treat me like dirt. Not stay in contact with me. Basically blow me off. Once again I will be the CHUMP in his life. The guy who is the chump that forks over tons of money thanks to the government.

If I am FORCED to pay how is the loot handed over? Who do I write the check to?

Sorry I am Bitter. It isn't that I won't pay but I want to be like any other parent and just not FORCED to pay. Without the leverage of, "be good to me, respect me vs. $$$$" this kid I am sure will once again see me as nothing more than an ATM with a heart and bitter disposition.

Thank You,

GML
 


I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
My response:

If she files for extended support for college, and the court orders it, you shall pay it. The court will instruct you whom to pay; e.g., the school directly.

This is not a difficult concept. The court doesn't care about your "familial issues" - - because if that were the case, then the court would have to conduct a balancing test; e.g., is your son's treatment of you over-the-line or not. But, the reality is that the court doesn't engage in such matters.

IAAL
 

gml659

Member
OK. If this does happen I plan to ask the boy when he is 18yo to petition the court to strike the order. I am agast that anyone can be ORDERED to support an adult. Can he petition the court to have the order struck down?

If the boy does not do this I will disown him and write him out of my will which, so far, has over $250,000 bench marked for him. I will also ask him to change his last name for shaming my families name. I am serious.

If ordered do I have any say in what he does in college or can he just major in basket weaving and partying?

I am sorry I am so harsh. To write what I have been through would take pages and pages.

Thank You,

GML
 

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
My response:

You're so way off base, that you're about to leave the Galaxy. Please, since you have so much available money, it would do you EXTREMELY well to have a quick, face-to-face, consultation with a local Family Law attorney. Perhaps that discussion will clear the cobwebs out of your brain, and set you straight.

Right now, the way you're seeing life, you are your own worst enemy. You're headed for a brick wall, my friend.

IAAL
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
gml659 said:
If the boy does not do this I will disown him and write him out of my will which, so far, has over $250,000 bench marked for him.

A: This will not help you in trying to get your children back, as you indicated you wanted to earlier.

I will also ask him to change his last name for shaming my families name. I am serious.

A: You can't force him to do this. And, see above.

Once he's 18, tho, you can start trying to repair the relationship between the two of you.
 
C

coosi

Guest
Quarter of a mil + earmarked in the will and you don't want to fund his college education. IMO a good education and the resultant career are much more valuable than money left in a will. Think of the hard feelings this will cause. If your son is being friendlier maybe this is the chance to start over. Maybe career advice, etc?

Sorry, but you sound like a jerk and if this is your typical attitude, no wonder you don't get along with your family. Don't do something that you'll regret later. (Think about grandchildren ;) )
 

gml659

Member
I totally agree with ALL of you. It IS a jerky thing. It is NOT about money. It is about a son that takes his Dad to court to FORCE me to pay. I have not said I won't pay voluntarily. You are right the burden for me would be inconsequential. What I want is someone that is respectful of me.....so far we ARE moving this way. Yet, his Mom wants me to give her a written agreement that guarantees the boy gets paid. He turns 18 in two months. She is already threatening court. The agreement is just Carte Blanche. I have seen this happen before. A friend of mine paid for BOTH of his kids college. After 17yrs of $3500/month alimony he is still paying the Mom and will pay her to death because a cease date was forgotten in the Support Agreement. These kids have NOTHING to do with him. He has NEVER meet his grandkids despite his efforts. This is my fear......I don't want to be made a CHUMP like he has become.

I knew someone would judge me a jerk. I would too if I were reading this. I dotted on those kids. Mexico Vacations, Ski Vacations, Thousands and Thousands of dollars of gifts. Intimate talks, counseling, bending over backwards...be open, open to criticizm etc. They too were victims of their Mom and ALL the lies she told them. A LAWYER....I went to four different ones on this issue. All the same answers. Over $20 in legal bills....seperation to now. I am legally exhausted.


GML
 
C

coosi

Guest
You've probably read the Washington law on this

Washington
Termination of support at 18;

court may order post-secondary support

Wash. Rev. Code § 26.19.090 provides that the court may, in its discretion and according to enumerated factors, award college support.

Now the plug here is "enumerated factors". I think you can "enumerate" course of study, grades, etc, and possible write check to college, and not mom. Something to check into

Post Secondary Support

Many people are unaware of the concept of continuing support beyond a child’s eighteenth birthday, graduation from high school, or otherwise requiring the parents to contribute to the child’s college education. It is important to consider the child(ren)’s post-secondary educational needs well in advance of deadlines for college registration and tuition payments. Often post secondary support can be set based on a particular college’s tuition and/or the parents’ proportion of income. Provisions requiring proof of grades and tuition receipts may also be included in a Child Support Order. There are many ways to structure a parent’s contributions to college education and we can help you explore your options

Where did this notion of paying post-secondary support come from?
In 1926, the Washington State Supreme Court in Esteb v. Esteb, required a divorced father to provide funds for a college education for his daughter. The principle set forth by the court in Esteb was expanded fifty years later. In 1978, the Washington State Supreme Court ruled in Childers v. Childers that judges have the discretion to require a parent to support a child beyond the age of 18 if the child remains dependent on his or her parents for support. In 1990, the Legislature enacted RCW 26.19.090 governing post secondary educational support awards.

What are the standards for awarding post secondary educational support?
Whether the adult child is in fact dependent and is relying upon the parents for the reasonable necessities of life. The court will exercise its discretion when determining whether and for how long to award post secondary educational support based upon consideration of factors that include but are not limited to the following:

(a) Age of the child;
(b) Child's needs;
(c) Parent's expectations for their children when they were together;
(d) Child's prospects, desires, aptitudes, abilities or disabilities;
(e) Nature of the post secondary education sought; and
(f) Parents' level of education, standard of living, and resources.
 
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gml659

Member
Coosi,

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!!!!

This for sure to hard work to did this up. I am much indebtted


GML
 
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coosi

Guest
Don't get too excited :D Here's another one I like...(Bold mine)

Frequently Asked Questions: Post-Secondary Educational Support

What authority allows courts to order the payment of post secondary educational support?
In general, RCW 26.09 gives trial courts discretion to award post secondary education support for adult children who are dependent. A court can either recognize a contractual agreement between the parties to pay post secondary education expenses or can order these expenses to be paid upon a showing of certain standards.

What are the standards for payment of post-secondary educational support?
The standards are found at RCW 26.19.090. Standards for postsecondary educational support awards, which states as follows:

"(1) The child support schedule shall be advisory and not mandatory for postsecondary educational support.

(2) When considering whether to order support for postsecondary educational expenses, the court shall determine whether the child is in fact dependent and is relying upon the parents for the reasonable necessities of life. The court shall exercise its discretion when determining whether and for how long to award postsecondary educational support based upon consideration of factors that include but are not limited to the following:

Age of the child; the child's needs; the expectations of the parties for their children when the parents were together; the child's prospects, desires, aptitudes, abilities or disabilities; the nature of the postsecondary education sought; and the parents' level of education, standard of living, and current and future resources. Also to be considered are the amount and type of support that the child would have been afforded if the parents had stayed together.

(3) The child must enroll in an accredited academic or vocational school, must be actively pursuing a course of study commensurate with the child's vocational goals, and must be in good academic standing as defined by the institution. The court-ordered postsecondary educational support shall be automatically suspended during the period or periods the child fails to comply with these conditions.

(4) The child shall also make available all academic records and grades to both parents as a condition of receiving postsecondary educational support. Each parent shall have full and equal access to the postsecondary education records as provided in RCW 26.09.225.

(5) The court shall not order the payment of postsecondary educational expenses beyond the child's twenty-third birthday, except for exceptional circumstances, such as mental, physical, or emotional disabilities.

(6) The court shall direct that either or both parents' payments for postsecondary educational expenses be made directly to the educational institution if feasible. If direct payments are not feasible, then the court in its discretion may order that either or both parents' payments be made directly to the child if the child does not reside with either parent. If the child resides with one of the parents the court may direct that the parent making the support transfer payments make the payments to the child or to the parent who has been receiving the support transfer payments."

My child is 18 years old, lives with his mother, and has a job. At one point does he stop being dependent?
The determination of dependency is the most important factor contained within these standards. Guidelines for determining dependency were established in Childers v. Childers, 89 Wn.2d 592, 575 P.2d 201 (1978). A dependent is "one who looks to another for support and maintenance, one who relies on another for the reasonable necessities of life." Id. at 598.

When dependency ends is a factual determination to be made from surrounding circumstances, such as child's needs, prospects, desires, aptitudes, abilities and disabilities, parents' level of education, standard of living and current and future resources, and amount and type of support child would have been afforded if parents had not divorced. Oblizalo v. Oblizalo, 776 P.2d 166, 54 Wash. App. 800 (1989). In Oblizalo, the court found that the child had a debilitating arthritic condition which had and would continue to require surgery and therapy. The child had also developed Reiter's Syndrome, for which he required additional therapy six times per week.

If my former husband and I agree to pay post-secondary educational support, what should be included in the agreement?
An agreement which includes a requirement to pay college expenses must clearly express the length and type of support. The Washington Family Law Deskbook suggests four general areas of clarification.

1. Defined time limit of support.

2. Maximum level of cost.

3. How parents will share expenses.

4. What the child is required to do.

Am I still required to pay post-secondary educational support if a trust fund has been established for my child?
An educational trust fund established by either the parents or a third party does not obviate the parents' obligation to pay for college expenses if, by agreement or court order, the parents are responsible of the expenses. See, Huff v. Huff, 68 Wn.2d 501, 413 P.2d 818 (1966). However, the existence of the trust fund may reduce the extent of each parent's obligation.

My children are very young. How can post-secondary educational support be determined for them now?
The issue of support for post secondary education can be reserved for later determination by entering a finding that the child's needs for post-majority educational expenses cannot be determined at time decree is entered and that the matter may be heard de novo if the future. Failure to preserve the issue may bar subsequent modification if the need for support is known to the parents at the time of decree. See, In re Marriage of Zander, 39 Wn. App. 787, 275 P.2d 976 (1989).

***Sounds like CS to mom could be reduced (only 1 child at home) and the post secondary support would be paid directly to son or the school. Also, what about mom having to pay part???
 
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Charleee

Member
gml659 said:
This for sure to hard work to did this up. I am much indebtted


GML

I am totally stymied as to how someone who can't construct two simple sentences not only earns enough money to be paying $1500/month in child support, but is able to leave a quarter million in a will?
 

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
Charleee said:
I am totally stymied as to how someone who can't construct two simple sentences not only earns enough money to be paying $1500/month in child support, but is able to leave a quarter million in a will?



My response:

Easy. If you bitch, cry, whine, and stomp your feet enough, people will pay YOU wads of money - - just like our original writer!

You know, I'd swear our original writer was a woman. The posts are written like a woman, and are emotional like a woman.

IAAL
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Charleee said:
I am totally stymied as to how someone who can't construct two simple sentences not only earns enough money to be paying $1500/month in child support, but is able to leave a quarter million in a will?


And you of course, Charlee, never mistype or speak, right? :rolleyes:
 

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