Shoplifting in California

[cdkelley]

which county do you live in?I live in Santa Clara Co,Calif. & have been picked up on the same charge as you a few years ago.I also was cited out & had to appear in court,there was no tapes of me shoplifting,the store claimed that an employee saw me.Which I had shoplifted so I didn't fight it. In S.C. CO. on the first offense you get a fine,have to pay restitution,court costs & the cost of probation(all of these can be combined & you can work out 1 payment a month on a curve according to your income.)I was also sentenced to 1 year court probation ,Which terms stated that I didn't have to report to anyone unless I recieved a request to appear by an officer of the court(i.e.-P.O.,judge,DA,etc.) And to stay out of the said store where the action took place,Also to keep out of any trouble while I was under this sentence. And if you violate the terms,depending on the judge & DA,the court might agree to add community service hours, bigger fines& time in county,depending what terms you violate.
If you don't pay your obligations to the Dept.of Revenue or miss a payment without the dept.approval then you can be charged with a new charge of non-compliance of the sentence & get in deeper!When at your sentenceing the court will give you a "top",& a "bottom" of your sentence.Such as the "top" being the maximum punishment ,the"bottom" being the lightest of your sentence.If you are caught on the premises of the crime scene ,you can be arrested & charged withunlawful entry or tresspassing & maybe even intent of theft of some type.
If you get arrested on the same type charges before the years court probation is up you will get the 'Top" (usually)of the prior sentence ,formal probation for 3 years,a bigger fine,more court costs ,etc.,etc.
Also this last action will automatically turn your first charge from a misdemeanor into a felony.& you will have to serve some time in county.
If you've already paid off the store the amount they requested the judge ay go a bit easier on you.But in paying the store is the same as admitting to guilt so you cannot plea not-guilty, besides if they have you on tape you in no way can fight it.
A Public defender will be assigned to one of you & an alternate attorney to the other because the 2 of you are co-defendents.
My advice is just do what the Public.Def. & other lawyer advise you to do ,make sure that you fully understand the terms of your sentence. & keep you hands totally in you pockets if you have to ,to keep from stealing.Go seek counsling if needed ,ask the courts if there is some type of program that you could possibly attend through the courts.The system is really made to try & help people,rehabilitate,& send you hopefuully down the right path in life by learning from your mistakes.Good Luck & God Bless..

 

[seniorjudge]

...My advice is just do what the Public.Def. & other lawyer advise you to do ,make sure that you fully understand the terms of your sentence. & keep you hands totally in you pockets if you have to ,to keep from stealing.Go seek counsling if needed ,ask the courts if there is some type of program that you could possibly attend through the courts.The system is really made to try & help people,rehabilitate,& send you hopefuully down the right path in life by learning from your mistakes.Good Luck & God Bless..

Excellent advice!

 

[bardunatorio]

How do I seek a public defender? It sounds like on other peoples' advice that I would have to plead "not guilty" and possibly show some financial papers before I am appointed one on the arraignment date. Oh yeah, to answer your question I live in Orange County. I don't know what are the different types of punishments or options there are out there for me and my friend? Should I just wait until the arraignment date or try to seek out a public defender and visit their office? I was also wondering, if you were caught in Santa Clara County, how much in total were your fines without the restitution to the store?
Thanks for the great advice.

 

[cdkelley]

Hi again Bardunatorio,

bardunatorio How do I seek a public defender?

You don't.You wil be appointed one by the courts after your arraignment.The judge will make the ruling to get both you & your friend attorneys.(public defenders)You will each get your own public defender.

Should I just wait until the arraignment date or try to seek out a public defender and visit their office?

If you try to contact their office they will not talk to you until the court orders for you to be appointed one.
Since you both have paid your debts to the store & the extra cover cost(which the extra cost that you paid is for the surveillance tapes & the stores security costs) You might be offered something like -if you plead guilty at the arraignment you will get 30(or more) hours community service work(the court will give you a list of places that let you work your hours),A fine for the crime,court costs,attorney(public defender) fees,and probation costs(which will be consolidated into one lump sum of which you'll make monthly payments)& court probation.I explained what that was in my last post.

BTW- It is a plus factor in your favor that you both have paid the store already. But this is just an example.No one can predict what the judge will sentence you to. This is what I was sentenced to on my first charge,I also grew up in Orange Co.The laws on most criminal procedures really do not differ too much,if at all in the same state.

It sounds like on other peoples' advice that I would have to plead "not guilty" and possibly show some financial papers before I am appointed one on the arraignment date.

I hate to break it to you two, but you are going to have to plead guilty to this charge.You were caught on tape & by paying the store off,you both basically admitted guilt.If you signed any paper at the scene that said you were never to enter the premises again,you really signed a paper admitting guilt.That form is worded in such a way that is basically an admittance of guilt that WILL hold up in court.Besides courts really do not like to have the cases dragged out,due to the fact that it cost alot of the tax-payers money & it's a waste of their time(so to speak)You'll have to remember that the judges & attorney's have murderers & child molesters to worry about,To them such a small case is a routine case.By prolonging such a simple case will rub the court ,oh ,say ,like they got up on the wrong side of the bed.

The courts love co-operation. If you are financially strapped the courts are understanding,really.They don't want to take every penny right out of your wallet!After all they wouldn't want to drive you back to stealing because they took all your money!The costs are to make you realize what a costly mistake you made & if you do it again it will be much more worse.It sounds as if you have learned your lesson,at least to me.
Now if they don't offer you the type of deal at the arraignment ,don't panic,you'll be appointed a P.Def. & that person will take care of what sentencing will be worked out with the judge & D.A.

What ever sentence you agree to take I have some advice,

DO NOT BE LATE FOR ANY OF YOUR COURT DATES!- or any of the appointments set up with your p.def. or appointments that pertain to the case.

After sentencing,you'll be given a return court date to show the judge that you have (or Haven't) complied with all of the stipulations of your sentence.
I suggest that you get everything that you were told to have done,just that-DONE.
It gets it over & done with,shows the courts that you are being responsible & that you do take what you did wrong, seriously.Then you can walk away & put it behind you & get on with your life.

ALWAYS BRING IN ANY PAPERWORK ! -that has to do with this case.if the case is prolonged,then keep a journal of all times ,dates & with whom you spoke to, & what you basically discussed & the result that you came to if a arrangement was made or agreed upon.

Always get a reciept for any moneys paid,make sure they have the correct date & if possible a time also of the transaction,have the person accepting the payment initial it if nessary.You will have a stub for your court fees & fines from the letters they send you that is your reciept.Just make a folder & keep it all together.If you have any luck like I did ,& don't keep good records,surer than sh#t ,the one reciept you lose will be the day that the pc's went down at the dept. of revenue & it can't be verified or something!

I don't mean to imply that your case is any less in significance then others,because I know that right now you are scared & worried & it is probably emotionally affect your life daily,because it's up in the air.Just really learn from this mistake & make sure that you don't hang around with people that might influence you in the wrong way.You have a whole lifetime ahead of you & don't want to start the rest of your life down this path,it's no peice of cake,nor is it anything glamorous or cool.
Sorry this is such a long post but I hope it helps to relieve your worries a bit so that you will handle it like the responsible person that you are.
God Bless & Good Luck.Let me know how it turns out!
Cathy

 

[bardunatorio]

Cathy...thanks for the great advice.
But I have a few more questions about the whole pleading thing. Would there be a difference if we plead "no contest" compared to "guilty?" Would the punishment be any different? What is the difference anyways? What would be the best choice for us to take? And even if we plead guilty or no contest, will the court still opt for appointing us a public defender? I thought you only got a public defender if you plead "not guilty?"
And what about expungement? Does it matter what I plead so that I am eligible for expungement? Or will this petty theft be forever on my record?

 

[seniorjudge]

"...But I have a few more questions about the whole pleading thing. (1) Would there be a difference if we plead "no contest" compared to "guilty?" (2) Would the punishment be any different? (3) What is the difference anyways? (4) What would be the best choice for us to take? (5) And even if we plead guilty or no contest, will the court still opt for appointing us a public defender? (6) I thought you only got a public defender if you plead "not guilty?" (7) And what about expungement? (8) Does it matter what I plead so that I am eligible for expungement? (9) Or will this petty theft be forever on my record?"

1 and 3: If you plead guilty, you say that you did the deed. If you plead no contest, you say you think a jury would find you guilty if you had a trial.

2 No

4 Your call, after you get your lawyer's advice

5 Your plea has nothing to do with whether you get a PD; that's just an income question.

6 You thought wrong.

7 8 and 9 Google "expungement 101"

 

[bardunatorio]

Potential Probation Question

I was searching on the net and I couldn't find any substantial info on probation rules/regulations. I was wondering if someone is convicted of a misdemeanor or an infraction in California, can he/she travel outside of the country for an academic program for school? I was thinking of studying abroad next semester (sept. - dec. 2005) and the applications are due next month, but my court date isn't until the beginning of February. I will most likely get probation, but will the courts allow me to study abroad or do I have to wait until my probation is over? Also, by obtaining a visa for these foreign countries, will they grant me the visa knowing that I have a conviction on my record?

 

[seniorjudge]

These are all good questions and you are showing some smarts by asking them now.

You should ask your probation officer (or the judge if you are put on bench probation) these questions.

You should also ask immigration officials your other questions. Also, post your questions in the immigration part of this forum and tell 'em we sent you so you do not get any nastygrams for double posting.

I hope your career as a thief has ended! See how much trouble you have caused yourself!?

 

[cdkelley]

It would be greatly appreciated if someone [knowledgeable] could shed some light on what are the implications to pleading not guilty to a petty theft charge under the circumstances that we had laid out in these two cases.

Well I didn't read ALL of your circumstances but I've had the (bummer) experience in this category...

1)You have been busted on tape,so therefore you are not,I repeat,ARE NOT going to get off on this charge.

2) if you signed anything at the store or while you were being held at the store or police station,(this was probably something saying that you couldn't go into the place that you stole from anymore)then the security definately has you on tape & there is no way out.

3)If you have paid the store the moneys that they asked for,this is an admission of guilt.(They'll say it isn't on both of these type of papers,but gosh,they lie too!)

4)The best advice is for you to stay calm,talk to your attorney(or P.D.),do what he/she says,& keep your hands in your own pants pockets from this incident on!

In california,usually(this is always depending on the judge,because he/she always has the last word)you will get a fine,(slap on the wrist),ordered to pay restitution(a slap on the other wrist) & 1 years court probation(a swat on the butt)
But if you do not follow the stipulations that the judge makes in your sentence ,(i.e.such as paying your fine, or restitution,& staying out of ALL trouble) you can be violated & put in jail on any of the sentence that might have been suspended at your original sentencing(this case) & also be remanded on a violation (usually a mandatory 6 months in county the first violation),SO you want to follow the rules.
I am suggesting this-If you have paid off what the store has asked you to pay before you go to your court date,take in all the paperwork(i.e.letters,your replys,& reciepts of payment) & tell the judge that you have done this.(they like to see that you took care of that right away.) Also I wouldn't try & fight the charges,(of course do what your lawyer says if you've hired one).I would ask the judge if you can make a plea since you've done that part of payment.(The courts LOVE this because you're not wasting taxpayers money),they'll give you a P.D. right there & they probably will give you what I wrote above.(slap on the wrist,slap on the other wrist,& swat on the butt)
Good Luck & Remember-keep your hands in your own pockets from here on out,ok?
I really,sincerely hope that everything will be ok,& if you need any more answers you can post me a personal message thru the forum.
Take care,
Cathy

 

[bardunatorio]

Final Outcome of court date

Finally went to court last week and I can't believe I spent basically 6 hours getting all the paper work done, even though the whole court process only took less than 30 mins.
My friend and I pleaded "guilty" and got a pretty okay sentence. I still thought that it was harsh, but I'm glad it is over with. We both got 1 year informal probation (meaning we don't have to report to a probation officer), 80 hours community service (physical labor), and about $1000 all together with court fees and fines. It is a financial damper and we both have learned our lesson. Thanks again everyone for giving us some great advice!

 

[seniorjudge]

Q: Finally went to court last week and I can't believe I spent basically 6 hours getting all the paper work done, even though the whole court process only took less than 30 mins.
A: Six hours!? That's not much time. You're lucky that's all it took.

Q: My friend and I pleaded "guilty" and got a pretty okay sentence. I still thought that it was harsh, but I'm glad it is over with. We both got 1 year informal probation (meaning we don't have to report to a probation officer), 80 hours community service (physical labor), and about $1000 all together with court fees and fines. It is a financial damper and we both have learned our lesson. Thanks again everyone for giving us some great advice!
A: That's not just okay, that's a very lenient sentence!