son in bar fight please advise

[MISTBHAVEN]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? WA;
my son was in a bar drinking he punched some guy who bothered a girl . One punch guy was out cold fight over . Son obviously in the wrong ! And extremey intoxited. Son called cab was leaveing bar. Bouncer hit in head from behind followed by kicking kidneys private area riped piercing from back of neck beating him continualing to parking area etc. Not sure if more than one . Son was charged with excessive use of force. What is that ? police filmed sons injuries. Why ? they have no Drunk tank so he was released. Hours later He was taken to the hospital by GF. He has numeral broken bones in hand Dr said might need bone graft and pins. Cannot use hand or work 6 weeks or more. Will schedual surgery.
should son file assualt on bouncer if not done ?
Why did bar not cut him off ? Police said extreamly intoxicated.
This happened 12-4-04 Son is large man. has 1 prior domestic violence.
I realize he was in the wrong hitting first guy but feel bouncer was wrong fight was over son was leaving. and feel bar should of cut off the drinks. and do not understand this charge I would of thought he would be charged with assualt in some degree. I am sorry if this is to lengthy and appricate any advice. On the good note son swore never to drink again got rid of all liquor at home. Thank you all

 

[stephenk]

is the version of the incident the one your son told you about? If yes, how does he remember what happened if he was so drunk? The broken bones in the hand most likely came from punching the guy in the face.

 

[MISTBHAVEN]

son in bar fight

The version is from son and wittnes that I wrote. On futher investigation The police charged the bar a 1,000. fine for over serving. the bar owner is pressing charges that son hit bouncer. The police have at least 1 wittness who says he never hit the bouncer. six more wittness have stated the same thing. several were 100% sober. Son did hit another man who refuses to press charges said he deserved it. apparently a whole group jumped into a fight. band equipment fell off stage knocking son to floor at thyat point bouncer hit him in back of head and proceeded to beat him. Witness's statements to police. son does not remember. As for hand I do not know if it is from the one punch or something else.
Also son was not attempting to drive had given keys to a friend and had called a cab. The cab was there when police arrived. I still do not understand excessive force verses assualt???? As for a email I recieved point well taken. Son does have prior Dv he is in anger control classes. He kicked Meth several years ago and I feel substituded one addiction for another. He now needs to over come drinking. But this does not justify the bar over serving. In washington st the bar may be liable for all that occured. as it is presumed it would not have happened if not intoxicated. Thanks for your thoughts & appricate all who reply

 

[You Are Guilty]

There is a significant problem with holding the bar (potentially) liable for the bouncer's actions. The bar is likely (if they're smart) to hire their bouncers as "independant contractors", not "employees", so as to insulate the bar owner from liabilty for the bouncer's actions.

But even if the bar didn't, the bar will certainly argue that the bouncer's actions in kicking your son's butt were well outside the scope of the bouncer's duties, which would also have the effect of insulating the bar owner.

Of course, if the bouncer is independantly wealthy in his own right, he is certainly responsible for his own actions, but then again if he was, he probably wouldn't be working as a bouncer.

In any event, speak to a local PI attorney who can do a bit more investigating - all hope isn't lost, it's just a difficult type of lawsuit to prosecute.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Your son has several serious problems including but not limited to anger and substance abuse problems. If your son is in a court ordered anger management program, perhaps there is a deferred sentence or diversion program, guess what, he has blown that and may have to serve a jail sentence for that alone the minute he threw the first punch, blame it on the bouncer or the bar all you want, but in the long run, it will come back to that. Getting him off or a reduced charge or heaven forbid actually winning a lawsuit will only make the problem worse and eventually someone will get get hurt. The bar was fined. Just because you are a parent and love your child doesn't mean you have to make excuses for him, someday you could be his victim.

 

[MISTBHAVEN]

Son

Well you are right I love my son. I do not make excuses for his actions. There is no defered prosacution. yes he had and will alwayse have a substance abuse proublem.The craveing never leaves. Just not giving in is a daily hurdel.
He kicked Meth several years ago this was without court intervention. and no legal proublems. He asked for help!!! on his own. I did not enabel him. I accept his proublems and have let him hit bottom loose everything go hungry and live on the street. Until he got help on his own.
As for his prior domestic violence charge. He had been clean and sober about two years he fell for a girl also a recovering addict. Later she back slid and started useing again. They broke up she broke into his seperate home two mo later HIGH. He shoved her out the door.As she begged him to use with her.He was living at a clean and sober house. The police were Called But shoveing is assualt and maybe that was the charge i am not sure as it was long ago but still it occured and is on record.
Under WA law that is domestic violence, or assualt !! Thus the charge. she is still strung out. He has stayed clean. He is not on probation but keeps in contact with old PO ( small town) who laughed at this charge in bar. Yes he drank. But the bar should of cut off as is the law here. And the police fined the bar for failure to do so. Is my son innocent ? No he should of not drank thank God it was not meth. but to be beaten so bad even the police fault the bar... Well is his past on trial?? or the facts of this incident??
You have valid thoughts on this and I appricate your in put. As I am sure this is the school of thought that will be questioned. Now that I have given you more to deliberate I would welcome your response. Thanks Mom

 

[rmet4nzkx]

I try to be objective, it is better to know the worst possibility and prepare for than than to be lulled into a false sense of security, unfortunately, many people react to that with hostility or resentment.

As I said, you love your son and you recognize he has a serious problem from which he will never be free. While you did the right thing in having a tough love approach allowing him to hit bottom and then hm asking for help, you also realize that he may replace one addiction with another, all of that will be compounded with anger management problems.

What has happened, as bad as it may seem without the excuses, may be yet another wakeup call for him. Perhaps the judge will be understanding, but I would suggest you encourage him to go to AA meetings and getting a sponsor and not get personally involved with another recovering addict while in recovery, there are obvious reasons for this, that should be obvious even to him by now. Being contrite and proactive about recovery may help. I would also suggest counseling and evaluation by a psychiatrist, as there are a number of medications that can help with alcohol withdrawl, anger problems, and cravings, managing his medications and recovery may give him the help he requires.

Check to see if the bar has insurance to cover his medical costs, if not, consult with an attorney, with the understanding that your son contributed to what happened and not entirely the fault of the bar, so if there is a suit, any settlement or judgement will be offset by his degree of fault. A hint, an attorney will take a case on contingency if they think they can win it, that doesn't mean that your son will recover enough to pay both legal costs, medical bills and have anything left over or even cover all the medical costs.

 

[You Are Guilty]

Hello? No liability for bar = no insurance money from bar. See my first reply. Bouncer liability = money, if bouncer has any.


Sue both, watch what happens!

 

[zcc6467]

play=pay

i agree - georgia- sue both the bar and bouncer. however - stay out of it and let your baby boy do it himself. he will surely get at minimum 12 mths probation, fine, restitution, community service, ...... or maybe hard time. however - if he fights against bar and bouncer - the court system make take a little heat off him. are you sure he beat meth? remember - boys will be boys and he knows what mommy wants to hear.

 

[MISTBHAVEN]

Son bar fight

Thank you to all. Lots of good sugestions. And advice.
Yes I know boys will be boys. I am positive he is drug free. And very commited to remaineing so.
Mett4, I could not agree more I am encourageing aa meetings. And being open and honest with the hospital for possible perscription help. He consulted a attorney today on the charges and possibilty of filing a civil action against the bar. The attorney felt he has a excellent case. But felt criminal charges should be addressed prior to fileing. He will follow the attorneys advice. The attorney was quite pleased that the police did fine the bar for over serving and noted on the paper work excessive force.
As for no girl friends that are recovering addicts. Yes you are right on and he has realized it. He is currently living with a really nice girl. With no criminal record no drug use. I really like her and feel she may be the one he marries.
I still let him jump the hoops and am supportive to him but I live 4 & 1/2 hours away and agree it is best he do it himself. Altho I do phone and offer advice. I am still a mom. I realize the consequences will be server and hope they are. So he never walks this road again. I hope he becomes commited to truely a sober life. Talking to all of you helps me to understand.
I will keep you imformed next court date Jan 18.
Keep writing and Thank you all
Mom