Step-parents' rights.

[Whyte Noise]

Simply put, she has as much power as HE gives her when it's his custodial time.

I have 2 stepdaughters, ages 11 and 8. When my husband and I got together, they were 7 and 4. When his ex decided to "allow" him his court ordered visitation they were 9 and 6. Now... at 9 and 6 years old, they didn't feel comfortable with their father seeing them naked, and so I was the one that did the bath routine with them on his weekends. Of course, they took showers and not baths, so granted I wasn't in the bathroom the whole time. But, I turned the water on for them and adjusted the temprature and when they were done with washing their hair, it was me they'd yell for to come in and make sure all the soap was out of their hair. And yes... I saw them naked.

I have never discliplined my stepdaughters other than a verbal reprimand or a time out. That's my own personal choice in my situation. I let their father handle corporal punishment.

On the flip side, my ex is remarried and he and I have 3 children together-- 2 girls and one boy. Our oldest daughter is in my custody, the youngest daughter and our son in his custody. I'm sure his wife has seen both our daughter and son naked. Well, I know for a fact she has. Baths, doctor's appointments, etc. She's also disciplined them, up to and including spanking. My children are in her care and she has the authority in her home to disclipline them as needed. Does it bother me? No. Not unless one of the children tell me something that I think inappropriate, and then I speak with her about it. That's only happened once. If my children are misbehaving and my ex isn't there, then by all means, punish them as you see fit. Beat my child though, and that's a different ballgame. Even when our children were in daycare, I gave them the authority to disclipline our children as needed.

Have you even read over any Missouri Parenting Plans? Looked at additional wording to be put in?

Honestly... if your ex weren't available to take the child to the doctor would it matter if someone else did in his stead? I'd rather my child get seen by a doctor than squabble over HOW they get there.

Just my $.02

 

[CJane]

Have you even read over any Missouri Parenting Plans? Looked at additional wording to be put in?

Honestly... if your ex weren't available to take the child to the doctor would it matter if someone else did in his stead? I'd rather my child get seen by a doctor than squabble over HOW they get there.

Just my $.02

I have a Missouri Parenting Plan, so yeah, I've read them. A lot of them. I have yet to find one that really addresses step-parenting.

And yes, with the Dr thing, it would matter to me if he made an appointment with a physician and his wife took the kids, without me even being asked if I could fulfull that obligation. I want first hand knowledge of any medical information as it relates to my kids. I don't think that's too much to ask.

How much of the actual parenting falls to the step-parent in his absence, and how much does he still have to consult with me about?

 

[Whyte Noise]

From my Missouri parenting Plan:

E. Special Provisions

1. That it is expressly understood the enumerated times each Parent shall be with, and responsible for care of said children are NOT subject to modifications by mutual agreement unless in writing, dated, signed and witnessed, and each Parent shall retain a copy.

2. Should valid reason occur, such that one Parent is not able to exercise his/her entire parenting/vacation time or custodial period with said children, make-up time shall be allowed and agreed upon in writing, should the Parent request said reduction and make-up time in writing.

3. That each party shall NOT deny ANY child parenting time with the other Parent because that child or both children are busy, not available, are being punished, are suffering an illness, or refuse to go on the scheduled parenting time or custodial period. The receiving Parent shall have the OPTION of verifying the illness of said child in person or by telephone, and shall have the option of caring for said sick child unless said sick children are under the care of a physician for serious illness, or are taking prescription medication for serious illness. Parent shall provide telephone numbers for contacting the physician currently caring for said sick child, or produce proof that said children are taking prescription medication, for verification of illness. Make up time in whole or part shall be provided to said Parent should said Parent be unable to exercise the Court ordered parenting time or custodial period.

4. The Mother and Father are enjoined from interfering in any way with the other parent’s Court Ordered parenting time or custodial period, and from interfering with the legal access of said Parent or Stepparent to said children.

5. That the Mother and Father shall not in any manner, or for any reason
whatsoever, suggest or demand that the other party shall not exercise all or a partial portion of his/her court ordered parenting time or custodial period with said children.

6. That neither party shall refuse to surrender said children to the other party or designated responsible adult promptly at the beginning of each of the party’s parenting time or custodial period.

7. That the Stepparents of said children shall have the right to transport said children for parenting times and custodial periods, school, activities or trips, or to provide any other transportation required in the parenting and custodial care of said children. That Stepparents shall have the right to share information with any school official or other authority or agency, physician, counselor, psychiatrist/psychologist, health care professional, activity supervisor, friend, relative or any other person concerned with the health and well-being of said children for the purposes of providing said children with proper care and supervision. That Stepparents shall have the right to seek regular and emergency medical care for said children under the guidelines of this Order, and to consent to such care should the need arise, and a custodial Parent is not available to consent to such care. The Stepparents shall have the right to touch, hold and carry, dress, feed, bathe, make purchases for, administer necessary medications to, and discipline said children within the guidelines of this Order, with the implied consent of the Parent residing in that home. That Stepparents shall have the right to receive telephonic and written communication from said children without interference from any person.

8. Each party will specifically recognize that their respective powers and responsibilities of joint legal custody will not be exercised for the purposes of frustrating, denying, or controlling in any manner the social development of the other Parent. The Parents shall exert their best efforts to work cooperatively in future plans of the children, consistent with the BEST INTERESTS of said children, and amicably resolving disputes as they may arise.

9. Pursuant to RSMo 452.425, the local Sheriff or other Law Enforcement Officer shall enforce custody or visitation orders as listed in this Parenting Plan and incorporated into the Custody Order.

10. The Parents are restrained and enjoined from encouraging or engaging ANY other person to harass, annoy, strike with hand or object, threaten, assault, verbally abuse or molest the other Parent or Stepparent, in an attempt to alarm, coerce, anger, or frighten either party in any manner or at any time whatsoever. The Parents shall not make negative statements about the other Parent or Stepparent in the presence of said children, and shall not allow ANY other person to make negative statements about the other Parent or Stepparent in the presence of said children. The Parents shall not use said children or any other person except a designated messenger, to deliver any messages to the other party. The Parents will not coerce said children into false and negative beliefs about, negative or abusive behavior toward, or attempt to alienate said children from, Parent or Stepparent, and shall not attempt to foster a lack of love or care for the other Parent or Stepparent in any way




STATE OF MISSOURI )
)ss
COUNTY OF MONROE )




(MissouriGal), of lawful age, being duly sworn on her oath states that she is the Petitioner named above and that the facts stated herein are true according to her best knowledge and belief.


_____________________________________________
MissouriGal





Subscribed and sworn to before me this ______ day of ______________, 2004.



________________________________
Notary Public

My commission expires:



“Absent exigent circumstances as determined by a court with jurisdiction, you, as a party to this action are ordered to notify in writing by certified mail, return receipt requested, and at least sixty (60) days prior to the proposed relocation each party to this action of any proposed relocation of the principle residence of the children, including the following information:

(1) The intended new residence including the specific address and mailing address if known, and if not known, the city;
(2) The home telephone number of the new residence if known;
(3) The date of the intended move or proposed relocation;
(4) A statement of the specific reasons for the relocation of the children; and
(5) A proposal for a revised schedule of custody or visitation with the children.


Your obligation to provide this information to each party continues as long as you or any other party by virtue of this order is entitled to custody of a child covered by this order. Your failure to obey the order of this court regarding the proposed relocation may result in further litigation to enforce such order, including contempt of court. In addition, your failure to notify a party of a relocation of a child may be considered in a proceeding to modify custody or visitation with the child. Reasonable costs and attorneys fees may be assessed against you if you fail to give the required notice.”

As for what he HAS to consult with you about... you state in another post:

Basically though, it's worded so that he has sole legal custody - the decree is modified though, to be worded almost exactly like a joint agreement. For instance, it does state that he cannot make 'major educational or medical decisions' without notifying me, and us coming to an agreement.

So... is it worded so that he has sole legal? Or has that been modified like you allude to? Either way... if it says he can not make 'major educational or medical decisions' without notifying you... routine doctor care is not a major medical decision. Even going to the doctor outside of a normal checkup isn't a major medical decision. If the child is sick with a cold, for example. Now, if that cold turns out to be double-pneumonia or something like that and the child has to be hospitalized, THAT is a major medical decision. Then of course, you run into "did he notify and consult soon enough" like the poster whose ex had what was believed to be a heart attack while the children were in his care and she was upset that she wasn't notified until 2 hours after the father was rushed to the hospital, the children and his family in tow.

My ex and I have joint legal custody. Our oldest daughter had to have a kidney biospy in December. I called him, told him what the doctor said, and honestly there really wasn't a need for discussion because we both have our child's interest in mind. She had to have that biopsy to find out what was going on with her kidneys. Now, she's on medication for it. She's also diabetic and on meds for that. Did I "consult" per se? No. I did let him know what was going on though as it wasn't a "major medical" decision. She's diabetic, she needs meds, end of story. She also has some huge tonsils that have to come out because they impact her breathing at night and she has many infections. Did I consult with him on that matter? Yes. It involves surgery on our daughter. To me, that's something that would fall under "major medical".

The reason for that paragraph was to try and illustrate the difference between "routine" and "major".

 

[heartbrokenmom2]

GIVE THE GIRL A SHOT... talk to her about your concerns..... MAKE FRIENDS WITH HER NOT ENEMIES>... lets put it like this frankly,,,, suppose you are a nasty you know what to her, just because you dont like that she has authority over your kids.... now she no longer likes you do you really think she is going to like the kids???? my guess is she will take her anger out on them,,,, i have always said... that it is NOT NOT NOT easy for a man or woman to fall in love with the ex's kids,,,, why/? because there is a severe intimate attachement between the two ex's and its a bond you as the step parent do not and will not have..... so she is going to feel very intimidated too, i am not saying you are groaning here... i mean in general... ihave been where you are right now.... i know hwat you are feeling,,, i am giving you the best advise possible THAT WORKS out of expereince... give her a shot, see how she is with the kids and look at her like i look at mine... she is my personal nanny and doesnt even know it... teach her HOW you want the kids cleaned etc.... and let it go from there, thats what i did.... i am sure she has developed her own procedure now but at least she the new step parent knew i had concerns and that i wanted to work thru them not fight,... hence my kids were happy, I WAS HAPPY, the ex was happy and so was the new step parent... once i showed her i backed off, now... i call her if i cant pick up kids. i call her to cross check xmas lists, i call her to watch kids when i need a break or if i just want private time, and i call her when the kids need something... i really dont evne speak much to my ex... i just call her! so believe me it will take ALOT of getting use to CJ, but i will all come around take it from me, DONT MAKE A BIG DEAL OUT OF IT... learn to adapt but rather than play her cards,,,, make her play your cards with out her even knowing she is doing it.... my dad always said you get more with SUGAR than you do with HONEY... he's right...
kill her iwth kindsness even if you hate her, or are jealous that she is taking care of the kids,,,, and for the record... you can say its not jealousy... but it is cause if it wasnt then we would be upset when our parents (the kids grandma) gave them a bath but we are not why? we are not intimidated, new spouses they bug the hell out of us ex spouses its only natural... but i found that looking for the good thing is better than bitching about the bad ones! ..... dont worry!

 

[Whyte Noise]

GIVE THE GIRL A SHOT... talk to her about your concerns..... MAKE FRIENDS WITH HER NOT ENEMIES>... lets put it like this frankly,,,, suppose you are a nasty you know what to her, just because you dont like that she has authority over your kids.... now she no longer likes you do you really think she is going to like the kids???? my guess is she will take her anger out on them,,,,

Bull.

I loathe my husband's ex with a passion because of the way she's treated him and her own children, but I in no way, shape, or form loathe his children. His ex has gotten in my face, cussed me out on the phone, you name it it's been done. But the girls get nothing less than love and support from me.

I wouldn't piss in his ex's mouth if she were dying from thirst... but those girls ... I will give my last dime and the clothes off my back to.

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

Clearly, you have not read or comprehended my previous posts. This isn't about my ex. It's about me trying to find out BEFORE HE GETS MARRIED what rights the new step mother will have.

Yes, he makes decisions that I disagree with when the kids are with him, and I'm sure that I do the same. We have excellent communication about the kids and about our lives. We've worked very hard toward forging a friendship, not only for the sake of our children, but for our own sanity as well.

Don't project your bitterness onto me. There's no place for it in my feelings toward my children, my ex or his new wife.

I'm chiming in a little late here, and what was said about the new wife is correct. On the other issues, you fail to understand that he has SOLE LEGAL CUSTADY, and there was a reason for that apparently.


https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=224575

 

[Whyte Noise]

Yes, but --PARIDISE-- there's this little phrase in there as well...

For instance, it does state that he cannot make 'major educational or medical decisions' without notifying me, and us coming to an agreement.

That reads as if it were joint legal custody.

That's why I asked for clarification because she said on her other post he had sole legal but that little sentence above is joint custody language.

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

Yes, but --PARIDISE-- there's this little phrase in there as well...



That reads as if it were joint legal custody.

That's why I asked for clarification because she said on her other post he had sole legal but that little sentence above is joint custody language.

I was agreeing with you MG, and I think between the many posts she has going, she needs to look at her orders again.

It is Sole Legal Custody, or it is not. I have yet to see a person with sole legal custody not have sole physical custody.

My guess is she has a great visitation schedule and has a great X husband. It's just a guess, so I am not assuming anything.

Just pointing out one of her many threads.

 

[Whyte Noise]

Yeah, I know. It's either sole legal or it's not. She stated it was sole legal in her other thread, then also stated the above language which is in line with joint legal, and something about something being "modified".

That's what I was trying to clear up.

Is you is, or is you ain't got sole legal?


Well, in this case, does HE have sole legal or not. (Yes, it's late and I'm acting silly.)

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

Yeah, I know. It's either sole legal or it's not. She stated it was sole legal in her other thread, then also stated the above language which is in line with joint legal, and something about something being "modified".

That's what I was trying to clear up.

Is you is, or is you ain't got sole legal?


Well, in this case, does HE have sole legal or not. (Yes, it's late and I'm acting silly.) Actually, your fine. I just logged in a bit ago and
I invite her to come back and explain,

But what I see is as a nice guy with legal custody, really involving the mother.
Your not being silly, but the OP needs to understand her orders and not play games with anyone.

 

[Ambr]

Just another sample of wording

My Missouri order.....

(10) That the Step-Parents of said children shall have the right to :

(a) transport said children for parenting times and custodial periods, school, activities or trips, or to provide any other transportation required in the parenting and custodial care of said children.
(b) share information with any school official or other authority or agency, physician, counselor, physchiatrist / psychologist, health care professional, activity supervisor, friend, relative or any other person concerned with the health and well-being of said children for the purposes of providing said children with proper care and supervision.
(c) seek regular and emergency medical care for said children under the guidelines of this Order, and to consent to such care should the need arise, and a custodial Parent is not available to consent to such care.

****You could probably add some type of wording that you would like to be contacted and given the opportunity to take the children for doctors appointments if their father is not available. *********


(11) The Step-Parent shall NOT have the right to administer corporal punishment, or physically strike said children for any reason whatsoever.

(12) That corporal punishment of said minor children, IF ANY AT ALL, be administered only by the natural Mother or the natural Father. Both parties are restrained from allowing ANY other person to administer corporal punishment to said minor children.

 

[CJane]

So... is it worded so that he has sole legal? Or has that been modified like you allude to? Either way... if it says he can not make 'major educational or medical decisions' without notifying you... routine doctor care is not a major medical decision. Even going to the doctor outside of a normal checkup isn't a major medical decision. If the child is sick with a cold, for example. Now, if that cold turns out to be double-pneumonia or something like that and the child has to be hospitalized, THAT is a major medical decision.

The way the decree is worded is that he has sole legal custody. HOWEVER, in the decree, it outlines all of the exceptions to that. Basically, he insisted on it saying 'sole legal', so that's in there, but all the actual provisions read exactly like a joint agreement, because they're copied and pasted from the joint agreement that my attorney drew up. Make sense?

We're supposed to notify each other within 24 hours of ANY communication with teachers/educators. I follow through on that - he doesn't. We're supposed to notify each other within 24 hours of any medical attention. That hasn't been an issue yet, since neither child is ill - however, he HAS made the decision to no longer give the oldest prescribed medication, without consulting (or notifying) me or the physician until MUCH later (2 weeks). The other stuff is probably me just being neurotic.

 

[CJane]

I was agreeing with you MG, and I think between the many posts she has going, she needs to look at her orders again.

It is Sole Legal Custody, or it is not. I have yet to see a person with sole legal custody not have sole physical custody.

My guess is she has a great visitation schedule and has a great X husband. It's just a guess, so I am not assuming anything.

Just pointing out one of her many threads.

I've read my decree probably once a month for the past year. Everytime I have a question, I consult it. Everytime I make a change to the custody calendar that hangs on the kitchen wall, I consult it. Every time I have to do anything at all relating to the legal side of child-rearing, I consult that hunk of paper.

You've just met the first person ever whose ex has sole legal custody - even though all of the language reads like a joint agreement - and he does NOT have sole physical. We have joint physical.

Here's the history, don't know if it'll help. Just prior to our divorce, he found God. And I don't mean he started going to church. I mean Promise Keepers conventions, lock-ins at the church, laying on of hands, etc. Which is fine, except it was such a radical change in behavior. I'm not Christian. With his newfound faith, that was a HUGE issue. He wanted sole control over their 'religious upbringing' - and the only way to get that was for him to have sole legal custody.

After many months of fighting with him about this, I gave in on the stipulation that we had joint physical custody, and that some modifications were made to the agreement.

The night before our court date, him and I sat down with the proposal from his attorney, and the proposal from mine, and went to work. We cut and pasted and rearranged, and finally came up with a settlement that we could agree to. The result was the actual words 'sole legal custody' because that was very important to him, and the language of a joint agreement, except with regards to religion, because that was very important to me. The other stipulation was the actual visitation split (it's not worded as visitation, it's worded as 'custodial periods') because after both of us being at home almost all the time for the past 5 years, anything less than what we were doing seemed unfair to the kids.

Anything I left out?

 

[lonelyandsad]

untitled

what goes on in his house when the kids are with him IS NOT your business,unless theres proof of neglect or abuse.just like when the kids are with you it isnt any of HIS business.i know theyre your kids,and theyre HIS kids too.let it go,its not worth squabbling over.