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Sue Pediatrician for Neglect/Malpractice?

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rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
What is the name of your state? NY
The following is a copy of a thread posted last weekend and deleted by an angry member after receiving appropriate responses to their inquiry. There were no violations of the TOS by responders, all but one of the responders are in the healing arts, all were in agreement that there was no malpractice and that the referenced links to OP's prior posts contained relevant facts to the case. 2 of my posts were deleted by admin and 1 possibly based on OP's complaint and was reposted by admin the second I reposted as an edit to a prior post. I have given OP a generic moniker and obscured the actual post numbers in the inks. I am reposting this because many members took time to reason with this member, provided sound advice, it is available in cache, it is a disservice to delete the thread. Perhaps others in the future will benefit from this.

Deleted thread from FA I will repost this thread since it is in cache but without ID of OP
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Sue Pediatrician for Neglect/Malpractice?
08-24-2006, 10:22 PM
OP_Parent
Sue Pediatrician for Neglect/Malpractice?
What is the name of your state? NY

I have 3 small children that have been going to a pediatrician for about a year and 1/2.
His office is extremely busy, and he didn't seem to give the extra attn needed.
1)One day, one of my little girls, at the time 17 months was brought into his office w/a high temperature. Her eyes became glassy, and she looked weak. We told this to him, and he just advised to give Tylenol, etc. - but didn't even take her temp there or give tylenol on the spot, which seems simple enough. How he could let us out of his care under those circumstances, I don't understand. As soon as we arrived home, she began to convulse and had a febrile seizure. She turned blue and her breathing became very shallow, we thought we were going to lose her (we didn't know much about this at the time) The ambulance came and gave her oxygen, and her color came back to normal. In the hospital, they said they would never have let it get that far, and would have immediately administered a rectal suppository fever reducer. She since then appears very sensitive to cold and changes in temperature. For example, after a bath she shivers, but her sister doesn't experience this. A neurologist advised us that since she had this condition, makes her more prone to reoccurence. We shudder in fear everytime she gets sick w/ any temperature. Our current doctor implores us to immediately reduce the fever w/tylenol, motrin, and wet compresses to make sure it never spikes to a level that might trigger another seizure.

2) Our other daughter was recently diagnosed with pertussis/whooping cough. This in
itself, in this day and age, very rare, and children are usually vacinnated against this. We had to give her such awful strong steroidal and antibiotic medicine to get her well.
Upon review of our girls medical records, by our current doctor, he told us that at 23 months, they are NOT up to date on their vaccinations, and missed important ones, including the pertussis, and others. He even said that the law requires children to have these, and the health department could even issue fines if children are not up to date.

This is outrageous! All this occured under the previous doctor's care. Do we have a case for medical malpractice and negligance? Please advise.What is the name of your state?

8-25-6 06:33 AM
rmet4nzkx
While a seizure in any child is a frightening event especially the first occurrence, it is often the result of the child's predisposition as opposed to the doctor's negligence. You fail to mention some key facts so I will simply ask them now.

Was your child otherwise ill or had an ear infection prior to the high fever?
What was the child's temp prior to the office visit?
What did you do to lower the child's temp?
Did you call ahead and ask for instructions?
What is your child's normal temp?
Did you give the child the Tylenol as ordered?

Some children are have a lower fever tolerance and experience seizures and it is not unusual for only one child in a family to have them. Now you know that this child is more sensitive to both fevers and changes in ambient temp. Children are more likely to shiver because of the ratio of skin to body mass, over time she will most likely grow out of it
and you will learn to avoid it. It is wise to have your child evaluated by the neurologist for a baseline and periodic monitoring, none of this is the fault of the child's former doctor, you changed and now you are happier with their care. The important thing is that you now know this important thing about your daughter and were able to receive prompt treatment and at this point she doesn't require any antiseizure Rx so your should be grateful.

Vaccinations are at the center of much debate, not all are thought to be safe or effective in all cases. It is not wise to vaccinate a sick child for instance, that may affect the administration of vaccinations, especially in sensitive children. Whooping cough used to kill many children, however, many vaccinated children still get whooping cough. It, the vaccination, is also thought to be partially responsible for some sids deaths and there is some good evidence to suggest that may be the case. I had an uncle before the days of vaccinations for Whopping cough, who died of SIDS 2 weeks following recovery from Whooping cough at age 2, but our family also has a history of cardiac arrhythmia and sudden death, perhaps he was more sensitive and would have also reacted to the vaccination if it had been available. There are many things we don't know, again, there may be reasons for delaying vaccinations or spacing them out in sensitive children. While vaccinations and schedules are suggested they are not always required by law and there may be waivers available. http://www.health.state.ny.us/preven.*****docs/2370.pdf
Some children still contract a childhood disease despite vaccinations.

I hope this explains why you don't have a malpractice cause of action.

Examples of waivers for NY are found here: http://www.vaclib.org/exempt/newyork.htm
 


rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
8-25-6, 07:02 AM
rmet4nzkx

After answering your post I looked up some of your past posts. If you were to sue, any attorney would look at your history of litigation and or threatened litigation and they might be very hesitant to take anything but a clear cut case from you on contingency. https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=31778x https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=28859x https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=27238x https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=27218x https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=24574x
You also admit in one of the posts that your infant daughter was diagnosed with an upper respiratory condition, that in and of it's self would also impact the scheduling of vaccinations. You also have some history of rather unstable emotional family relationships and welfare checks. In addition your job loss makes it appear that you may be seeking some deep pockets. Did you switch doctors because of what you perceived as less than standard care, or did you switch because your insurance changed with your job loss?

Food for thought, it doesn't change the fact that you don't have a mal practice case, in fact it provides more reasons explaining why the doctor acted as they did in good faith.
=====================
Here follows the text of the deleted post, just because an OP doesn't like what advise they receive doesn't make it wrong, deleting the post with the rational and answer to OP's specific questions is a disservice to everyone.

rmet4nzkx 08-25-2006 09:37 AM
Originally Posted by OP_Parent
Thx for reply.
First off, although I am aware this is a free and public forum, I do not see what other posts on totally different issues have to do with this one, and I am disappointed that you chose to collate all of my past and previous postings on this one. I am sure anyone can do a history search as you did, but I feel it wasn't necessary to do so.
Second, if I registered w/one user, obviously I am not hiding behind diff users names, and rely on this forum for some cursory or preliminary advice and/or thoughts on serious matters that have occurred. I hope for some modicum of anonymity, b/c obviously others who are involved can come upon this site and based on some of the explicit details can conclude who I am, and what action I'm seeking or not seeking to take. I would like you to edit your post and remove those links.
While you may not feel the other posts were relevant, they were when taken into the context of the chronology of events and your consideration of a lawsuit and would be issues raised in a potential lawsuit and in the interrogatories. It is best you understand that hear and now rather than somewhere down the line. I did not delete the previous post, apparently you complained to the admin to delete the links to your previous posts, I just want to make it clear that it was in no way a violation of your rights to privacy or of the terms of use for this site. I now see that admin reposted them apparently recognizing that they were in fact appropriate. The fact that your family has had to have welfare checks done on your household is very significant when you are making an accusation about the quality of care for your children. The fact that you were trying to get a restraining order against your brother and your whole family supported him, suggests there may be an issue with the best interest and welfare of your children. The term welfare has more than one meaning besides public assistance.

I'm sorry you see it that way that "In addition your job loss makes it appear that you may be seeking some deep pockets" You really have it all wrong.
And, I was never on welfare, and I have quite a good job with a 6-figure salary for the record. Anyways, this isn't the point. It's just that I have more than one issue in my complicated life to tackle as you see, and I believe in justice if I was legally wronged.
These are facts. You were terminated from your job of over 6 years, they claimed poor performance, you claimed religious discrimination, this doesn't jive. All this happened about the same time, so it affects your emotional state and your reactions to everything else happening in your life. On the practical side, I inquired whether or not your switching doctors had something to do with changes in your insurance coverage, because that will be a question asked.
You may have a 6 figure income but you have no ides the elements required to successfully prosecute a medical malpractice lawsuit.

"Was your child otherwise ill or had an ear infection prior to the high fever?"
With respect to the original matter at hand, this "dr" completely missed the fact that she had an ear infection which was in fact diagnosed by the hospital treating my post-seizure daughter. It was at that point, the "dr" decided for no other reason than knowing he missed her ear infection, decided to put my other daughter on antibiotic (w/o an ear infection) just to cover his ass, in my opinion.
Do you think I am an idiot? Do you think I asked about the ear infections for a reason? Ear infections in young children are fickle, the child may have any number of symptoms including fever or not and keep you up all night then as soon as you rush the child to the hospital or the doctor, they are happy and smiling with no apparent distress and change in the matter of a few minutes. With your children having a history of upper respiratory infections also mentioned in the deleted links, would justify the doctor prescribing antibiotics for other children in the family especially since one child reacted to the fever so violently and the cause and type of infection were unknown. If your child has a chronic lung condition or asthma a doctor may be justified in prescribing the antibiotic, so the doctor provided appropriate care.

"What was the child's temp prior to the office visit?"
It was elevated, but completely spiked in the dr's office.
So you didn't answer this question, that makes me suspect that you don't know or didn't take the child's temp, which would be seen as neglect on your part and a contributing factor.

"What did you do to lower the child's temp?"
Prior to the visit, she was on oral tylenol, and was sponged down.
That's all? No extra liquids or baths? A fever serves a purpose, it fights an infection and is the body's natural response, but you need to take your child’s temp and know when it gets too high and what to do when it does not respond.
"Did you call ahead and ask for instructions?"
We were told to bring her in. I feel if we controlled it at home and skipped the office visit, she might have avoided it.
But you didn't control it did you and now you know your child is sensitive to fevers and you will have to be prepared in the future for a repeat.
"What is your child's normal temp?"
Around 97ish F
Then this is a lower than avg temp so your daughter is likely to react to a fever at a lower level by looking "toasty" and while other children may withstand higher fevers without a problem, you must watch your child more closely. You might ask yourself why I asked that question (because I knew the answer) none of this is the fault of the doctor.
"[/i]Did you give the child the Tylenol as ordered?[/i]
Yes, before, and after, but it was of no use her fever was already too high, and again, the dr should NOT have let her out of his care and either try to take some action at that time to bring down the fever, or suggest we go to the ER.
From what you described her condition in the doctors office was typical for a fever, it was not until after that she required emergency care. This happens with ear infections they wax and wane or spike. I have had my children in the doctor's office with ear infections numerous times and never did they give my child any medication in the office to lower the fever. It was not an emergent issue at that time and you don't need the doctor to tell you to take your child to emergency if they are unresponsive and you have taken their temp and you can tell them the baby's fever is xxx degrees and unresponsive to xxx unless there is something else like turning blue or seizures.

I think overall he has been neglectful to our children, which is why I posted here.
The doctor acted within the standard of care based on the information you provided in all your posts. Pursuing a lawsuit will only open a can of worms. If you feel the standard of care was breached, then make a complaint to the medical board and they will investigate your accusations. But you have no cause of action at this time.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:40 AM.
Last edited by rmet4nzkx : Yesterday at 04:45 PM.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
8-25-6, 09:59 AM
OP_Parent

Reply************** {OP’s response was one of the forum prohibited words}
Thx for reply.
First off, although I am aware this is a free and public forum, I do not see what other posts on totally different issues have to do with this one, and I am disappointed that you chose to collate all of my past and previous postings on this one. I am sure anyone can do a history search as you did, but I feel it wasn't necessary to do so.
Second, if I registered w/one user, obviously I am not hiding behind diff users names, and rely on this forum for some cursory or preliminary advice and/or thoughts on serious matters that have occurred. I hope for some modicum of anonymity, b/c obviously others who are involved can come upon this site and based on some of the explicit details can conclude who I am, and what action I'm seeking or not seeking to take. I would like you to edit your post and remove those links.

I'm sorry you see it that way that "In addition your job loss makes it appear that you may be seeking some deep pockets" You really have it all wrong.
And, I was never on welfare, and I have quite a good job with a 6-figure salary for the record. Anyways, this isn't the point. It's just that I have more than one issue in my complicated life to tackle as you see, and I believe in justice if I was legally wronged.

"Was your child otherwise ill or had an ear infection prior to the high fever?"
With respect to the original matter at hand, this "dr" completely missed the fact that she had an ear infection which was in fact diagnosed by the hospital treating my post-seizure daughter. It was at that point, the "dr" decided for no other reason than knowing he missed her ear infection, decided to put my other daughter on antibiotic (w/o an ear infection) just to cover his ass, in my opinion.

"What was the child's temp prior to the office visit?"
It was elevated, but completey spiked in the dr's office.
"What did you do to lower the child's temp?"
Prior to the visit, she was on oral tylenol, and was sponged down.
"Did you call ahead and ask for instructions?"
We were told to bring her in. I feel if we controlled it at home and skipped the office visit, she might have avoided it.
"What is your child's normal temp?"
Around 97ish F
"[/i]Did you give the child the tylenol as ordered?[/i]
Yes, before, and after, but it was of no use her fever was already too high, and again, the dr should NOT have let her out of his care and either try to take some action at that time to bring down the fever, or suggest we go to the ER.

I think overall he has been neglectful to our children, which is why I posted here.
Last edited by OP_Parent : Yesterday at 10:13 AM.

8-25-6, 11:49 AM
lealea1005
"Was your child otherwise ill or had an ear infection prior to the high fever?"
With respect to the original matter at hand, this "dr" completely missed the fact that she had an ear infection which was in fact diagnosed by the hospital treating my post-seizure daughter. It was at that point, the "dr" decided for no other reason than knowing he missed her ear infection, decided to put my other daughter on antibiotic (w/o an ear infection) just to cover his ass, in my opinion.

also...may I add that you are correct in stating this is your opinion. Obviously you have no idea what goes into practicing medicine.

8-25-6, 12:59 PM
OP_Parent
I have asked the moderator to remove and close this thread altogether. I was looking for some friendly advice, whether or not I am right or wrong, but did not expect this rudeness or hostility, especially in light that this is a serious matter. I will certainly be more careful of posting things in this forum from now on.
If I seem to be in the dark about certain legal matters, is why I tried to research it here. If I were someone in a crimal trial in need of defense, I'd make sure you're not my atty, (rmet4nzkx), unless I wanted to fry...

8-25-6, 01:12 PM
lealea1005
just for the record....i've been following this thread from the beginning and don't understand why you are being so hostile. rmet4nkzx has been more than helpful with advice and information. it seems to me that pehaps you are merely not receiving the answers you wanted.

the point you may be missing is that a febrile seizure in a child happens very quickly, are benign, and most likely starting your child on antibiotics would not have helped anyway. it would not have been appropriate to treat your child with antibiotics just because they had a fever. it also wasn't out of the ordinary not to catch an ear infection at the time. again those symptoms may not have presented themselves when your child was initially examined.

but you're closing this thread, so i don't see that you'd be interested in any explanations.

8-25-6, 03:01 PM
OP_Parent
Ok
I appreciate the information on the topic at hand, but I didn't think it necessary to publicize here my previous unrelated postings, and I thought that made rmet4nkzx unneccesarily hostile to me. Anyway, think some of the facts are getting a bit mixed up. Thx anyway for clarifying the situation.
()Is there a way I can close the thread, or do I have to request it?

8-25-6, 03:40 PM
fairisfair
close it yourself, you and the moderator are the only ones who can.

and unless you have multiple personalities, then yes, your other posts are relevant to any and all future questions that you might ask.

8-25-6, 04:01 PM
panzertanker
Originally Posted by OP_Parent
I appreciate the information on the topic at hand, but I didn't think it necessary to publicize here my previous unrelated postings, and I thought that made rmet4nkzx unneccesarily hostile to me. Anyway, think some of the facts are getting a bit mixed up. Thx anyway for clarifying the situation.
()Is there a way I can close the thread, or do I have to request it?
1. There is no damages caused by a febrile seizure. The seizure was in direct relation to the elevated temperature.
2. Your personal thoughts on why your other child was placed on antibiotics have no bearing on the situation.
3. It is not the physician's responsibility to give something to bring down the temperature if you are given appropriate education on what to do when you get home. You were given those instructions. It is not malpractice to not diagnose an otitis media.
4. Your other threads are public record here, and as such may be brought up by others. They were. You have no one to be angry at but yourself: you are the one who posted them.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
8-25-6 05:19 PM
rmet4nzkx
Originally Posted by OP_Parent
I have asked the moderator to remove and close this thread altogether. I was looking for some friendly advice, whether or not I am right or wrong, but did not expect this rudeness or hostility, especially in light that this is a serious matter. I will certainly be more careful of posting things in this forum from now on.
If I seem to be in the dark about certain legal matters, is why I tried to research it here. If I were someone in a crimal trial in need of defense, I'd make sure you're not my atty, (rmet4nzkx), unless I wanted to fry...

When was I rude to you? I didn't tell you what you wanted to hear and you also heard the same thing from two other persons in the medical profession, there was nothing incorrect. This is a site discussing legal issues which is not always a pleasant thing especially when you don't hear what you want to hear. I even told you that you could file an administrative complaint and they will investigate. What more do you want?
This is not a vent/rant/ or support group.
I am not an attorney, but if I were you would want me as you attorney and if you were in need of the forensic services I do provide, you would definitely want me, but that is not the question one is it? In addition to my previous advice and the advice of the other posters, I strongly suggest you work on your anger issues, having misplaced anger can rip you apart, do something about it.

8-25-6, 09:15 PM
Happy Trails
Originally Posted by OP_Parent
I appreciate the information on the topic at hand, but I didn't think it necessary to publicize here my previous unrelated postings, and I thought that made rmet4nkzx unneccesarily hostile to me. Anyway, think some of the facts are getting a bit mixed up. Thx anyway for clarifying the situation.
()Is there a way I can close the thread, or do I have to request it?

It's understandable you are upset.

I didn't see anything inappropriate in the responses.

Sometimes when someone's is so upset they read the posts with that mentality.

Reread the posts when you are not feeling so upset.

A couple of the responders know exactly what goes on in a medmal case and all pertinent information would be used.

You can lock your thread with the lock tools at the bottom.

8-25-611:23 PM
butterscotch
It's understandable you are upset.
I didn't see anything inappropriate in the responses.
Sometimes when someone's is so upset they read the posts with that mentality.
Reread the posts when you are not feeling so upset.

OP_Parent,

I agree with Happy Trails. I too did not see anything posted by rmet (or anyone else) in this thread or the other threads that is hostile. I don't think reference to your previous threads was intended to be anything other than helpful to you. I also think that it is important to understand your situation with additional information about you. It takes time and effort to locate, read and respond in this way. And this is really very helpful to you although you don't realize it at this time.

I hope you will consider my response is intended to be helpful and not critical. You have recently (at least from previous threads) had several serious if not traumatic incidences and you are definitely upset.

So I wonder if you have had ANY resolution to issues you presented before the pediatrician? It seems you are
building a list of injustices.

This is from a medical website health.allrefer.com

About 3 to 5 percent of otherwise healthy children between the ages of 9 months and 5 years will have a seizure caused by a fever. Toddlers are most commonly affected. There is a tendency for febrile seizures to run in families. Most febrile seizures are triggered by a rapid rise of body tempterature over 102.2 degrees F. Most occur well within the first 24 hours of an illness, not necessarily when the fever is highest. The seizure is often the first sign of a fever.

The first febrile seizure is usually one of life's most frightening moments for parents. Most parents are afraid that their child will die or have brain damage. Thankfully, simple febrile seizures are harmless. There is no evidence that simple febrile seizures cause death, brain damage, epilepsy, mental retardation, a decrease in IQ, or learning difficulties.

Most febrile seizures are triggered by fevers from viral upper respiratory infections, ear infections, or roseola. Meningitis causes less than 0.1 percent of febrile seizures but should ALWAYS be considered, especially in children less than one year old or those who still look ill when the fever drops.

A simple febrile seizure stops by itself within a few seconds to 10 minutes, usually followed by a brief period of drowsiness or confusion. Anticonvulsant medicines are generally not needed.

You don't have answers to specific questions about the infections and actual treatment.
I imagine your wife is the care giver. So the question you have is about malpractice/negligence. You have received an answer "no" from several persons who are competent practioners in medical malpractice.
Last edited by butterscotch : 8-25-6 at 11:26 PM.

8-26-6 12:44 PM
loveumms
No lawsuit lottery for you - it's amazing that when people look at your litigation history you become upset, defensive and want your post closed. Even though this is a free forum and you seek advice, if you continue to post about suing on multiple different posts it will raise suspicion as to your need for money.

You have NO case. It is not the responsibility of a doctor to administer an over the counter medication in the office. It is the parent’s responsibility (aka YOURS)!!!!! Hello, if your daughter had a fever then you should have known to give her some Tylenol - especially if you have older children (since I'm sure your older children have had fevers). I also do not believe you that the doctor’s office didn't take her temperature. That is preposterous - I have never been to a doctor’s office where they didn't take temperatures as a vital sign. Febrile seizures are not an uncommon occurrence in children.

You must have damages that resulted from negligence. Giving a child medication in the office is NOT the standard of care – some docs may do it but others don’t even have Tylenol in their office. It can cause the doctor to have liability for allergies to the medications he/she is giving – if they would have given your child the Tylenol and she had a reaction (granted, it’s very unlikely to occur but possible) then you would be on here trying to sue for the reaction.

Regarding your other child and the vaccination - did you take the child religiously to the well child appointments? Whooping cough is becoming more and more common. If your child has not suffered any permanent damages due to the illness, having to endure steroid treatment is not damage, and then you should feel lucky that she has recovered.

It still amazes me on what people feel they can sue their physician for, not because I am training to be one but, because you can’t just sue for anything and everything.
 

SPR

Member
From a medical standpoint, off the record, let me add this. Febrile seizures are a common occurance in infants. It is a way that the body fights off a fever that hits fast and peaks very high. Of the hundreds of cases that my wife and I have dealt with in the ER, neither of us have seen an infant die from a febrile seizure. It's simply a matter of controlling the fever and it's common practice for a physician to instruct or prescribe the use of a fever reducer and nothing else. Letting a seizure take it's course is the best option in most cases, but chemical intervention may be necessary if the seizures are back to back, lasting very long or the person becomes harmful to themselves or others in some way.

Like said above, there are alot of unanswered questions to the case. Without this information, no one can make a sound judegement on the situation. I will say that it is also not unheard of for a child to have some difficulty breathing during a seizure, but that's simply with any seizure, adult of infant. The most common harmful/fatal part of a seizure is from someone falling and hitting their heads.
 
B

butterscotch

Guest
SPR
Member
From a medical standpoint, off the record, let me add this. Febrile seizures are a common occurance in infants. It is a way that the body fights off a fever that hits fast and peaks very high. Of the hundreds of cases that my wife and I have dealt with in the ER, neither of us have seen an infant die from a febrile seizure. It's simply a matter of controlling the fever and it's common practice for a physician to instruct or prescribe the use of a fever reducer and nothing else. Letting a seizure take it's course is the best option in most cases, but chemical intervention may be necessary if the seizures are back to back, lasting very long or the person becomes harmful to themselves or others in some way.

I am a little confused by the statement of a child dying because of a febrile seizure. How is that relevant? A febrile seizure is not an epileptic seizure. What chemical intervention are you refering to?

I will say that it is also not unheard of for a child to have some difficulty breathing during a seizure, but that's simply with any seizure, adult of infant. The most common harmful/fatal part of a seizure is from someone falling and hitting their heads.

Actually, it is not the most common harmful/fatal part of a seizure for an adult of child. It is in tonic-clonic epileptic seizure lasting more than 5 minutes, status epilepticus where emergency treatment is essential. The difficulty is lack of oxygen to the brain. Your suggestion of breathing difficulty implies that there may be some intervention. To do so could cause damage to the mouth or their airway. Please tell us that you aren't implying this.

Your response is very confusing. I think your misinformed. If you want to pretend to be an emergency room physician, first research the topic.
 
Last edited:

SPR

Member
butterscotch said:
SPR
Member


I am a little confused by the statement of a child dying because of a febrile seizure. How is that relevant? A febrile seizure is not an epileptic seizure. What chemical intervention are you refering to?



Actually, it is not the most common harmful/fatal part of a seizure for an adult of child. It is in tonic-clonic epileptic seizure lasting more than 5 minutes, status epilepticus where emergency treatment is essential. The difficulty is lack of oxygen to the brain. Your suggestion of breathing difficulty implies that there may be some intervention. To do so could cause damage to the mouth or their airway. Please tell us that you aren't implying this.

Your response is very confusing. I think your misinformed. If you want to pretend to be an emergency room physician, first research the topic.

WHo said I was an ER phsycian? You assume too much.

My thought process was scattered when I typed that, I apoligize...trying to type it fast while my wife continually interupted me and now, going back and re-reading, I see it's now confusing.

What I should have said was that with a seizure, the first thing one should be concerned about it potential trauma from a patient falling. This is the most common occurance with seizures. It doesn't matter what kind of seizure someone has, this is always a big risk and if you treat a patient for a febrile seizure and neglect taking a possible fall into consideration, you wont be practicing for long. As for chemical intervention, Valium can still be given for febrile seizures if the needed. It is just like any other seizure when keeping it under control.

Again, you assume that I am talking about airway management. I never implied or stated that you should go sticking anything into the mouth. Managing airway should be done with a head tilt if the seizure was witnessed and no fall occured and jaw thrust if it wasn't witnessed and there was a possibility of a fall. They once used bite sticks for patients have seizures, but that practice has slowly faded.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
SPR said:
WHo said I was an ER phsycian? You assume too much.
It is this statement that suggests you are an ER physician although other places you claim to be an EMT and LPN, it is important when claiming a certain expertise to be clear otherwise others may wrongly infer. So while you confirmed the basic fact that febrile seizures were common, geting too specific or making absolute statements is not responsive to what was OP_Parent's original question.
Of the hundreds of cases that my wife and I have dealt with in the ER, neither of us have seen an infant die from a febrile seizure. It's simply a matter of controlling the fever and it's common practice for a physician to instruct or prescribe the use of a fever reducer and nothing else. Letting a seizure take it's course is the best option in most cases, but chemical intervention may be necessary if the seizures are back to back, lasting very long or the person becomes harmful to themselves or others in some way.
My thought process was scattered when I typed that, I apoligize...trying to type it fast while my wife continually interupted me and now, going back and re-reading, I see it's now confusing.

What I should have said was that with a seizure, the first thing one should be concerned about it potential trauma from a patient falling. This is the most common occurance with seizures. It doesn't matter what kind of seizure someone has, this is always a big risk and if you treat a patient for a febrile seizure and neglect taking a possible fall into consideration, you wont be practicing for long. As for chemical intervention, Valium can still be given for febrile seizures if the needed. It is just like any other seizure when keeping it under control.

Again, you assume that I am talking about airway management. I never implied or stated that you should go sticking anything into the mouth. Managing airway should be done with a head tilt if the seizure was witnessed and no fall occured and jaw thrust if it wasn't witnessed and there was a possibility of a fall. They once used bite sticks for patients have seizures, but that practice has slowly faded.[/QUOTE]Many people believe that they have standing to sue, because a loved one is injured, suffers a side effect, known complication or dies related to medical treatment, that is a false assumption, that is why we ask more questions, to get an idea how to best follow up or refer them, or how to approach a consultation with a medmal attorney. This thread was reposted because it contained much useful and valid informaiton about an emotional subject and other may learn from it. Let's not stray too far fro the focus.
 
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butterscotch

Guest
Rmet
Many people believe that they have standing to sue, because a loved one is injured, suffers a side effect, known complication or dies related to medical treatment, that is a false assumption, that is why we ask more questions, to get an idea how to best follow up or refer them, or how to approach a consultation with a medmal attorney. This thread was reposted because it contained much useful and valid informaiton about an emotional subject and other may learn from it. Let's not stray too far fro the focus.

I agree. The person asked about a malpractice case. He became upset when he was told "no". He provided additional information and became defensive. He left long long ago. Additional comments were not pertinent. I wondered what happened to the thread and saw the comment from SPR when it reappeared. My comment is intended to encourage those persons who are professionals they are obligated to support their "opinions" with facts. If you indicate a breeech of practice, you must site your source (literature).

If a law is broken, the law is referenced. In tort law you have to state the standard and the breech of that standard. It is inappropriate to say "They once used bite sticks for patients have seizures, but that practice has slowly faded". I think you mean tongue blades. Regardless. It is irrelevant. But my bias is it is a dangerous folklore that someone will swallow their tongue. Cannot happen. Never did. If you don't believe try it yourself. See if there is anyway you can occlude your respirations by your tongue.

Last comment- the seizure is in relation to a fever. It is a normal response to danger level fevers in children. The damage to the brain is an abnormally high fever. Urgent is the need to reduce the fever.

Different is the epileptic seizure. It is a whole different ball game. By giving information about head injuries, swallowing tongues, and giving valium is ridiculous.
 
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SPR

Member
Just so everyone is clear, I am a paramedic. I did not intend for anyone to get the idea I was anything else. Also, I tried to keep my original post non biased when it came to gneral information. I realize that I am not qualified to state what the law says about malpractice, but I do feel that I can comment on common practice for prehospital and certain ER procedures for most things. I have spent a total of 8 years in emergency atmosphere, 3 of which were in a local ER, 3 were as an EMT and 5 were as an EMT-P (Paramedic).

My wife is an ER physician though. So, if there was any confusion, perhaps it was with that?

BTW, sorry that I didn't realize that the poster was gone.
 
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butterscotch

Guest
SPR said:
Just so everyone is clear, I am a paramedic. I did not intend for anyone to get the idea I was anything else. Also, I tried to keep my original post non biased when it came to gneral information. I realize that I am not qualified to state what the law says about malpractice, but I do feel that I can comment on common practice for prehospital and certain ER procedures for most things. I have spent a total of 8 years in emergency atmosphere, 3 of which were in a local ER, 3 were as an EMT and 5 were as an EMT-P (Paramedic).

My wife is an ER physician though. So, if there was any confusion, perhaps it was with that?

BTW, sorry that I didn't realize that the poster was gone.

Paramedics and firemen save lives- true heros ;)
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
SPR said:
Just so everyone is clear, I am a paramedic. I did not intend for anyone to get the idea I was anything else. Also, I tried to keep my original post non biased when it came to gneral information. I realize that I am not qualified to state what the law says about malpractice, but I do feel that I can comment on common practice for prehospital and certain ER procedures for most things. I have spent a total of 8 years in emergency atmosphere, 3 of which were in a local ER, 3 were as an EMT and 5 were as an EMT-P (Paramedic).

My wife is an ER physician though. So, if there was any confusion, perhaps it was with that?
The challenge is for everyone's benefit. Make it clear your level of experience provide citaitions as appropriate, explain in appropriate language the meanings and ask quesitons to clarify.

While the danger from head injury subsequent to seizures significant, the danger from head injuries also exists with syncope, vertigo, whiplash and other injuries, sometime accumulating over years, seizures related to headinjury may be delayed decades, there are differences between allowing a temp of 101-103 run its course in a child, a child with a 101 temp and febrile seizures, a child with a 103+ temp vs an adult with a 103 temp and so on, we cannot make all inclusive determinations. In this case, we needed to determine that there was no malpractice, if there was an appropriate referal to an attorney and to substantiate that belief when there was a challenge.
 

panzertanker

Senior Member
SPR said:
Understood. :)
For the record, I understood from your previous posts that you were NOT a physician, your wife was. What you did for a living WAS ambiguous until you clarified it. Also, I think butterscotch is great at reading from an encylopedia, but lacks any patient contact...


Butterscotch:
Chemical intervention can mean anything from valium, tylenol or dilantin.
They are ALL chemicals.

Please don't tell me you are implying that tylenol is NOT a chemical?
I believe YOU should do a little research also....
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
panzertanker said:
For the record, I understood from your previous posts that you were NOT a physician, your wife was. What you did for a living WAS ambiguous until you clarified it. Also, I think butterscotch is great at reading from an encylopedia, but lacks any patient contact...


Butterscotch:
Chemical intervention can mean anything from valium, tylenol or dilantin.
They are ALL chemicals.

Please don't tell me you are implying that tylenol is NOT a chemical?
I believe YOU should do a little research also....
It is amazing what regular soda cut in half by water can to to reduce a fever in a child;)
 
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