Summertime parenting time and employment and another question about summertime.

[Ohiogal]

Am I the only one with a lawyer who says the courts will not enforce a visitation order in Ohio, in our county? She says they absolutely will do NOTHING to enforce it!

Most likely, yes.
But you also have a CSB case and that is different.

 

[Silverplum]

Can you explain?

It has nothing to do with your case: the details are very different.

 

[LdiJ]

If you're going to claim I said something, get it right, please. I stated "I told him I'd fight in which ever manner he wanted me to...and he doesn't want to go" That means that if he wants to fight, I'll provide an attorney and wouldn't give up without a fight.

Mom won't gain custody due to years of documented verbal abuse and two counts of physical abuse to the older two children when she did have custody. I've paid for years of therapy for them, and both have stated that they would fight their mother ever regaining custody of their younger brother. Children's Services is well known in this case as well. I fought 9 hard years for them, and have more than enough documentation to prove my point. Hence, the reason I gained custody.

Dad, I am going to tell you a true story. A 17 year old girl got accepted into a special summer college program that was going to be six weeks long. The program was such that if she completed the program she was going to be eligible for a full ride scholarship for college. Her dad (the non-custodial parent) said a flat out no, that he would not give up any of his parenting time to accommodate the program. It was kind of last minute like your situation. Mom backed up her daughter, and said that she did not have to go.

Dad took mom to court for contempt, and even though the contempt case wasn't heard until after the child actually turned 18, the judge fined mom $5000.00 for violating the court order. In that particular case mom felt that the 5k was worth it, because of the scholarship, but it was a steep price to pay.

You just never know how a judge is going to react to something like that and I really do not think that you have enough time to get to court before summer.

 

[stringplucker]

I'm not saying I'm going to deny her any time at all...I've not denied her a single minute of visitation to date. However, she's forgone so much time already in the form of missed holidays, birthdays, vacations from school, etc...and he wants to have gainful employment through the summer. With jobs being difficult to get for minors in our area, the fact that he has two is pretty impressive. He maintains them while having a 3.0 and higher GPA.

In 2010, when their mom had custody, I was told by the judge that my oldest child didn't have to come out to Utah with me for my 5 weeks because she was employed, and the way the standard order was written, it was going to be my responsibility to have her at work as scheduled. Since I couldn't make that commitment, I was told to allow her to stay behind...and I did. The standard order, where extracurricular activities is concerned, hasn't changed.

Ughh...I guess I was hoping that there was something I could do to help this young man. My son is a hard worker and has great work ethic. Grades come first, home chores are second, and everything else comes third. If his mother does as she claims she's going to do, he'll lose both jobs, as well as any chance of saving up enough money to purchase a car inside of a year from his birthday, which was January. I'd hate to have to tell him that there's not much I can do other than to have him available...IF she comes.

Thanks anyway.

 

[cheesecake46580]

I'm not saying I'm going to deny her any time at all...I've not denied her a single minute of visitation to date. However, she's forgone so much time already in the form of missed holidays, birthdays, vacations from school, etc...and he wants to have gainful employment through the summer. With jobs being difficult to get for minors in our area, the fact that he has two is pretty impressive. He maintains them while having a 3.0 and higher GPA.

In 2010, when their mom had custody, I was told by the judge that my oldest child didn't have to come out to Utah with me for my 5 weeks because she was employed, and the way the standard order was written, it was going to be my responsibility to have her at work as scheduled. Since I couldn't make that commitment, I was told to allow her to stay behind...and I did. The standard order, where extracurricular activities is concerned, hasn't changed.

Ughh...I guess I was hoping that there was something I could do to help this young man. My son is a hard worker and has great work ethic. Grades come first, home chores are second, and everything else comes third. If his mother does as she claims she's going to do, he'll lose both jobs, as well as any chance of saving up enough money to purchase a car inside of a year from his birthday, which was January. I'd hate to have to tell him that there's not much I can do other than to have him available...IF she comes.

Thanks anyway.

You can always give it a shot and see what happens but be prepared for it to be ruled in mom's favor but sometimes judges can surprise us. Keep us posted I would love to see how this plays out in the future. I hope something can be worked out because a good work ethic is a good life skill your child has learned! And honestly I think I would try to work somthing out if it was my child as well but I would make sure some time was spent with mom too! Life is about choices we make and sometimes we have to do things we don't want to as well

 

[Ohiogal]

You can always give it a shot and see what happens but be prepared for it to be ruled in mom's favor but sometimes judges can surprise us. Keep us posted I would love to see how this plays out in the future. I hope something can be worked out because a good work ethic is a good life skill your child has learned! And honestly I think I would try to work somthing out if it was my child as well but I would make sure some time was spent with mom too! Life is about choices we make and sometimes we have to do things we don't want to as well

You think it is a good idea to tell him to ignore a COURT ORDER? Really?

 

[cheesecake46580]

You think it is a good idea to tell him to ignore a COURT ORDER? Really?

No that is not what I was saying try and get it into court and see what happens It's kind of a crap shoot but if he is admit about it and the child is trying to be responsible why not ask. Mom clearly don't have a good track record with visitations could play in his favor on this. You never truly know how a judge will look at all the information presented and if mom is not taking all of her time to begin with who honestly knows what will happen. And if the judge did actually talk to the child and he presents mature enough on why he wants to work ect you never know. But until the order is changed dad and the child should be prepared for the summer visit to take place.

 

[stealth2]

I'm not saying I'm going to deny her any time at all...I've not denied her a single minute of visitation to date. However, she's forgone so much time already in the form of missed holidays, birthdays, vacations from school, etc...and he wants to have gainful employment through the summer. With jobs being difficult to get for minors in our area, the fact that he has two is pretty impressive. He maintains them while having a 3.0 and higher GPA.

In 2010, when their mom had custody, I was told by the judge that my oldest child didn't have to come out to Utah with me for my 5 weeks because she was employed, and the way the standard order was written, it was going to be my responsibility to have her at work as scheduled. Since I couldn't make that commitment, I was told to allow her to stay behind...and I did. The standard order, where extracurricular activities is concerned, hasn't changed.

Ughh...I guess I was hoping that there was something I could do to help this young man. My son is a hard worker and has great work ethic. Grades come first, home chores are second, and everything else comes third. If his mother does as she claims she's going to do, he'll lose both jobs, as well as any chance of saving up enough money to purchase a car inside of a year from his birthday, which was January. I'd hate to have to tell him that there's not much I can do other than to have him available...IF she comes.

Thanks anyway.

There is something you don't seem to understand - visitation is a right, not an obligation, on the part of the NCP. Mom is allowed to skip her during the year time, while exercising her summer time. However, it IS an obligation on your part to ensure that the child (and yes, he still is) is available for her ordered time. Did you/he discuss the issue involved wrt her time prior to his taking these work obligations? Did you talk to her about his going to camp and her visitation? Has HE spoken with his employers to see what he might be able to arrange wrt time in the summer? Have you?

Yes, Mom insisting on her time may well adversely affect her relationship with her son, but that is her choice. Yes, I'm sure he was embarrassed that she called his job(s), but frankly, those are conversations he/you should already have had with them.

The judge may or may not see things your way. *I* would have a contingency plan should things not go your way (though I do suspect you will not get a ruling prior to summer).

 

[stringplucker]

As of this morning, his mom said she wants at minimum, one week with him...she sent that to me in a text message. Son is willing to accept anything, provided his mother get him to and from work and he not lose his jobs. I told him what his mom offered, and he's happy with that. I suggested that we have a three-way conversation over Skype about this tonight...both son and mom agree that they can do this.

I've been telling my son all along that the papers state I am to have him ready for his mom, if she decides to come get him. He wants to see her, just doesn't want to spend a week or more with her. He's left by himself when there, and not able to visit friends or family, unless it's her family. The last summer he was there, he was used as babysitter for his mom's now ex-boyfriend...while his mom and her now ex went off for a few days. These are part of the reasons he's not interested in going.

My encouragement to him is for him to make his voice heard. Make sure he has his mom's attention so he can voice those concerns with her. I've told him repeatedly to voice these things with her, and his response is that she refuses to listen. I'm hoping that tonight's Skype conversation will help.

I'll keep y'all updated, as usual. Y'all have helped me in the past, and have seen where things have worked out quite well on my side of the situation...which is rather mind boggling to me considering the hell I went through to gain custody...watching the kids suffer like they did through verbal abuse that started becoming physical. Being on this side of the fence is still new to me.

 

[Silverplum]

As of this morning, his mom said she wants at minimum, one week with him...she sent that to me in a text message. Son is willing to accept anything, provided his mother get him to and from work and he not lose his jobs. I told him what his mom offered, and he's happy with that. I suggested that we have a three-way conversation over Skype about this tonight...both son and mom agree that they can do this.

I've been telling my son all along that the papers state I am to have him ready for his mom, if she decides to come get him. He wants to see her, just doesn't want to spend a week or more with her. He's left by himself when there, and not able to visit friends or family, unless it's her family. The last summer he was there, he was used as babysitter for his mom's now ex-boyfriend...while his mom and her now ex went off for a few days. These are part of the reasons he's not interested in going.

My encouragement to him is for him to make his voice heard. Make sure he has his mom's attention so he can voice those concerns with her. I've told him repeatedly to voice these things with her, and his response is that she refuses to listen. I'm hoping that tonight's Skype conversation will help.

I'll keep y'all updated, as usual. Y'all have helped me in the past, and have seen where things have worked out quite well on my side of the situation...which is rather mind boggling to me considering the hell I went through to gain custody...watching the kids suffer like they did through verbal abuse that started becoming physical. Being on this side of the fence is still new to me.

Do you and your son not understand that MOM'S family is HIS family?

I'm about done with your attitude toward your obligation, and with your son's attitude toward his Mom.

 

[Ohiogal]

As of this morning, his mom said she wants at minimum, one week with him...she sent that to me in a text message. Son is willing to accept anything, provided his mother get him to and from work and he not lose his jobs. I told him what his mom offered, and he's happy with that. I suggested that we have a three-way conversation over Skype about this tonight...both son and mom agree that they can do this.

I've been telling my son all along that the papers state I am to have him ready for his mom, if she decides to come get him. He wants to see her, just doesn't want to spend a week or more with her. He's left by himself when there, and not able to visit friends or family, unless it's her family. The last summer he was there, he was used as babysitter for his mom's now ex-boyfriend...while his mom and her now ex went off for a few days. These are part of the reasons he's not interested in going.

My encouragement to him is for him to make his voice heard. Make sure he has his mom's attention so he can voice those concerns with her. I've told him repeatedly to voice these things with her, and his response is that she refuses to listen. I'm hoping that tonight's Skype conversation will help.

I'll keep y'all updated, as usual. Y'all have helped me in the past, and have seen where things have worked out quite well on my side of the situation...which is rather mind boggling to me considering the hell I went through to gain custody...watching the kids suffer like they did through verbal abuse that started becoming physical. Being on this side of the fence is still new to me.

Mom is supposed to get him to work during the weeks she has him from 265 miles away? Are you deranged?

 

[stringplucker]

Do you and your son not understand that MOM'S family is HIS family?

I'm about done with your attitude toward your obligation, and with your son's attitude toward his Mom.

My obligation is to make him available for her visitation. I am meeting that obligation, and then some. My son's attitude towards his mother is caused by the treatment he's been given thus far. I'm doing everything I can here, and his counselor stated that he should confront her and have clear conversation with her about everything...again, I'm in agreement, and I encourage it.

Get upset...it's apparent that you aren't aware that I send him over to his mom and her family anytime I'm in town visiting my family. My entire family lives there as well. I give my time up for him to visit her all the time. I even offered a week over this past Christmas vacation after she said her set scheduled time wasn't good for her. Instead, he went to his grandparents and spent part of the time with his mom's parents, and part of the time with my mother.

Furthermore...my attitude towards his mother has been positive. I've encouraged her to come visit him, sent him during times that wasn't hers, and even paid for a hotel for a weekend, for her to come up for our daughter's graduation. I had to pay for it because she was broke after a week in the Smokey Mountains with a BF.

It's her lack of desire to have a relationship with our son that has got him messed up. I've had him in counseling for a few years due to the anger issues he has stemming from his mom's actions towards him, as well as the verbal abuse. I have to replace a door in his room from the last conversation he had with her, because she told him that he's costing her more money than he's worth. This is the same mother that had child support lowered to $150 from $422 so she could afford to come for visitation...yet refuses to do so.

I drove back and forth, flew when I was in UT, drove after moving here, just to spend as much time with the kids as I possible could...nearly ruining my relationship with my wife in the process because I was gone so much between work and seeing the kids in Ohio. There's absolutely no reason why she can't do the same. Money isn't an issues, as she is a RN that makes enough money for her to afford going on vacation to TN, CA, and cruise...yet she can't seem to make it up here to see her son? It's no wonder he doesn't want to go...yet I'm encouraging him to voice his feelings to her, so that she truly knows what she's doing to him.

I've encouraged him to go, told him to talk to her, given him an opportunity to have a voice...yet I'm in the wrong?

As I stated earlier, she's now put into writing that she'll be happy with a week, so our son can continue his employment without issue. We're going to discuss it after dinner tonight, and I'm sure we can all come to an agreement. I wish she would put forth the effort to spend time with him.

I'm not trying to end summer visitation, but his jobs are in jeopardy. She's put it in writing that a week will work. We'll work out the details, and you can be done with me now.

From now on, I'll only come here to be judged, instead of the advise I seek. To those that gave the advise I was looking for, Thank You. I appreciate your time.

 

[stringplucker]

Mom is supposed to get him to work during the weeks she has him from 265 miles away? Are you deranged?

Thanks for the insult, but I'm quite sane, thank you. It's what I was told when I wanted my oldest daughter to come to UT when I lived there, and she had a job. I was told by the judge in a trial about me getting 5 weeks in a row that due to her having a job, it would be in the best interest of the child to allow her to stay in Ohio since I have no way of transporting her to and from her job. That is in the ruling the judge handed down.

The papers are a bit more specific now, yet still state that the parent that the child is with is charged with transporting the child to and from extracurricular activities. Distance was known when the decision on custody was handed down. Mom knew, attorneys knew, magistrate knew, and judge knew.

Now, I know that chances are a judge would rule in her favor if the child was younger and we weren't talking about employment. However, the child is 16, there's a history of issues with the mother known about by the courts, and the boy would rather be employed and make money.

You answered me once by saying the court order is in play, period. I agree. I will follow the court order to the letter, as always...intent of order has yet to be brought up, or tried. Letter of the order versus intent of the order are two different things, and can go either way in court...this I know. But, I will follow the letter.

i again thank everyone, and you especially, for the answer. I don't appreciate the insult, but we'll leave it at that.

 

[stringplucker]

There is something you don't seem to understand - visitation is a right, not an obligation, on the part of the NCP. Mom is allowed to skip her during the year time, while exercising her summer time. However, it IS an obligation on your part to ensure that the child (and yes, he still is) is available for her ordered time. Did you/he discuss the issue involved wrt her time prior to his taking these work obligations? Did you talk to her about his going to camp and her visitation? Has HE spoken with his employers to see what he might be able to arrange wrt time in the summer? Have you?

Yes, Mom insisting on her time may well adversely affect her relationship with her son, but that is her choice. Yes, I'm sure he was embarrassed that she called his job(s), but frankly, those are conversations he/you should already have had with them.

The judge may or may not see things your way. *I* would have a contingency plan should things not go your way (though I do suspect you will not get a ruling prior to summer).

Thank you for your response. Visitation is a right that I feel all parents should strive to exercise. I've made him available whenever her time comes up. He has a bag packed, ready to go, if she ever shows up for visitation. I've made sure of that.

As of right now, it looks like she's now down to one week instead of more. He and her will discuss things with me during a video conference tonight and iron out the details. If worse comes to worse, he loses his jobs, has more issues with his mom, and requires more counselling. If all goes as she's offered this morning, bully for him and his drive. He's a great kid with strong work ethic, and makes really good grades. I can't ask for a better son than him.

 

[LdiJ]

Thank you for your response. Visitation is a right that I feel all parents should strive to exercise. I've made him available whenever her time comes up. He has a bag packed, ready to go, if she ever shows up for visitation. I've made sure of that.

As of right now, it looks like she's now down to one week instead of more. He and her will discuss things with me during a video conference tonight and iron out the details. If worse comes to worse, he loses his jobs, has more issues with his mom, and requires more counselling. If all goes as she's offered this morning, bully for him and his drive. He's a great kid with strong work ethic, and makes really good grades. I can't ask for a better son than him.

Please realize that the one week she is agreeing to WILL NOT include him working during that week. He will have to take the week off from both of his jobs. Do not attempt to be unreasonable about that.