A "good" grandparent does not sue. How is it the best interests of the child to take THEIR parents to court forcing them to pay lawyers fees that take AWAY from the parent being able to raise their child? A "good" grandparent does not alienate themselves away from their OWN child in an attempt to continue to control them. It has nothing to do with a parent who feels that they "own" their child. It has to do with a grandparent who thinks they "own" their own child and their children. A gpv suit is NEVER in a child's best interest.
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Supervised visit question
- Thread starter catlvr976
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A "good" grandparent does not sue. How is it the best interests of the child to take THEIR parents to court forcing them to pay lawyers fees that take AWAY from the parent being able to raise their child? A "good" grandparent does not alienate themselves away from their OWN child in an attempt to continue to control them. It has nothing to do with a parent who feels that they "own" their child. It has to do with a grandparent who thinks they "own" their own child and their children. A gpv suit is NEVER in a child's best interest.
LdiJ
Senior Member
Ok Childrenfirst, give me your opinion of this one....everybody in this story are decent people who love the child.
Paternal grandpa and stepgrandma prefer to visit with their 18 month old granddaughter at their house. They are a bit set in their ways and do not feel comfortable at their son and daughter in law's home. The two parents of the child have a strict policy that their daughter will never be punished physically, in any manner.
During a visit, the child reached for a electric socket and the stepgrandmother slapped her hand, quite hard. The mother of the child reminded the stepgrandmother of their policy, and the stepgrandmother, instead of apologizing for what she had done, told the mother essentially, that it was "her house, her rules".
Dad and mom stood up, picked up their child and informed the grandparents that in that case, any further visitation would take place at their house, where their rules had to be obeyed.
Of course grandma should have apologized. However, instead of behaving with dignity and grace she insisted to grandpa that they had to sue for their "grandparent's rights".
They sued, they lost, they no longer see their grandchild...or their son...
All stepgrandma had to do was apologize and promise to never do it again...but her ego was obviously bigger than her love for the child. Oh, and by the way, part of the reason why they lost was because stepgrandma was stupid enough in court to repeat the "my house, my rules" bit.
Paternal grandpa and stepgrandma prefer to visit with their 18 month old granddaughter at their house. They are a bit set in their ways and do not feel comfortable at their son and daughter in law's home. The two parents of the child have a strict policy that their daughter will never be punished physically, in any manner.
During a visit, the child reached for a electric socket and the stepgrandmother slapped her hand, quite hard. The mother of the child reminded the stepgrandmother of their policy, and the stepgrandmother, instead of apologizing for what she had done, told the mother essentially, that it was "her house, her rules".
Dad and mom stood up, picked up their child and informed the grandparents that in that case, any further visitation would take place at their house, where their rules had to be obeyed.
Of course grandma should have apologized. However, instead of behaving with dignity and grace she insisted to grandpa that they had to sue for their "grandparent's rights".
They sued, they lost, they no longer see their grandchild...or their son...
All stepgrandma had to do was apologize and promise to never do it again...but her ego was obviously bigger than her love for the child. Oh, and by the way, part of the reason why they lost was because stepgrandma was stupid enough in court to repeat the "my house, my rules" bit.
So, by your logic, a judge should not grant a rape victim a restraining order against her attacker until a therapist has a chance to observe her interaction with the alleged attacker and then decide whether it is in her best interest or not?
An allegedly abusive parent should still be permitted to have contact with his child until a therapist decide whether or not the parent poses a risk to the child?
A parent has every right to remove from their child's life any person who may pose a risk to the child's physical or emotional well being. That includes grandparents or other relatives, especially when said grandparents abused the the parent when parent was a child.
In this situation, forcing such an interaction would be re-victimizing the parent and possibly victimizing the child, as well.
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I haven't been back to my thread as we've been busy moving, we've moved about 1 1/2 - 2hrs away from our old home.
We've had our visits at her house and her at ours (per the court) and every time we've been at her place, she's had friends, neighbors, other kids, and other relatives at her place. I feel she's using my kids as showpieces, telling them that some of these people have missed them and waited so long to see them (ok, where've they been all these years?). My girls didn't mind going there but didn't seem too happy about all those other people. She is going to have a party for my middle dd because she refused to come to the one I had because she doesn't like my family. I was under the impression that grandparent's rights are for the grandparents to spend time with their grandkids, not for them to invite a million other people over to their home.
Since we've moved, the girls are very upset about having to travel back to see her and have told her as much. She didn't seem to care, telling them all those people miss you and that she'll have to see what the court and mommy says....telling the girls that the court makes the decisions. Then proceeded to tell them what was going to happen at their next visit. My oldest told her that she didn't want to travel back there and just kept on repeating herself, but gma didn't listen.
The whole thing stinks. I have to risk their safety to drive them back to see her, when they'd rather her visit them here, where they can do the things they want to do. She's more than welcome to visit here. I just wish that for once, what the KIDS want would matter more than what gma wants. She's not an old gma either, early 50's. She's getting excuses from her dr saying she can't sit for more than 30 mins at a time.
This last visit, she came here. She came in our new place, the girls were wanting to show her their frogs they caught, their new room, etc. She was in there not even 5 mins and went back outside with her husband (stepgrandfather to my girls). She left later (instead of staying here) with her dh to get gas and asked us to meet her somewhere. She stayed behind at the lake to talk to some people she ended up recognizing. She will complain at our review next month about all this, I'm sure of it. They were pretty upset that she didn't seem to care about their frogs or room.
Someone mentioned a while back about this being about control on the gparents part. How very true. She's tried to control everything we did with them and when we didn't agree with her, she'd go ballistic and start arguments with my h when he was still here. This is partly what led to him cutting her out of his life.
Oh well, this is our lovely court system, I guess. I can't believe laws like this exist and only target a specific group of parents (not married ones, though). Why is it that when you're married, what you want as a parent matters, but when you're divorced or widowed, as I am, that all goes out the window?
Thanks for reading and any advice.
We've had our visits at her house and her at ours (per the court) and every time we've been at her place, she's had friends, neighbors, other kids, and other relatives at her place. I feel she's using my kids as showpieces, telling them that some of these people have missed them and waited so long to see them (ok, where've they been all these years?). My girls didn't mind going there but didn't seem too happy about all those other people. She is going to have a party for my middle dd because she refused to come to the one I had because she doesn't like my family. I was under the impression that grandparent's rights are for the grandparents to spend time with their grandkids, not for them to invite a million other people over to their home.
Since we've moved, the girls are very upset about having to travel back to see her and have told her as much. She didn't seem to care, telling them all those people miss you and that she'll have to see what the court and mommy says....telling the girls that the court makes the decisions. Then proceeded to tell them what was going to happen at their next visit. My oldest told her that she didn't want to travel back there and just kept on repeating herself, but gma didn't listen.
The whole thing stinks. I have to risk their safety to drive them back to see her, when they'd rather her visit them here, where they can do the things they want to do. She's more than welcome to visit here. I just wish that for once, what the KIDS want would matter more than what gma wants. She's not an old gma either, early 50's. She's getting excuses from her dr saying she can't sit for more than 30 mins at a time.
This last visit, she came here. She came in our new place, the girls were wanting to show her their frogs they caught, their new room, etc. She was in there not even 5 mins and went back outside with her husband (stepgrandfather to my girls). She left later (instead of staying here) with her dh to get gas and asked us to meet her somewhere. She stayed behind at the lake to talk to some people she ended up recognizing. She will complain at our review next month about all this, I'm sure of it. They were pretty upset that she didn't seem to care about their frogs or room.
Someone mentioned a while back about this being about control on the gparents part. How very true. She's tried to control everything we did with them and when we didn't agree with her, she'd go ballistic and start arguments with my h when he was still here. This is partly what led to him cutting her out of his life.
Oh well, this is our lovely court system, I guess. I can't believe laws like this exist and only target a specific group of parents (not married ones, though). Why is it that when you're married, what you want as a parent matters, but when you're divorced or widowed, as I am, that all goes out the window?
Thanks for reading and any advice.
mistoffolees
Senior Member
That is far too strong of a statement. There are times when the parents are completely unfit and a grandparent who steps in is doing everyone a favor.
I realize that this is only a tiny fraction of gpv cases, but to say that a good grandparent would never sue is just wrong.
muchneededhelp
Member
Also, most fit parents don't just cut a relationship without sufficient reason. I know I had a dang good reason. Lets NEVER forget, that relationships with GP's CAN go sour. Things can be alright for years until they start crossing a line, refusing to understand that they are no longer a parent... and don't want to give in to being in the background of their grandchildren's life. Most parents want desperately to believe that their own parents have changed since their childhood... and it takes a while, but you learn, they haven't. They've only done a good job at concealing it. Then we start protecting our children.
This is a legal forum. Bitterness is a given with some parents on here. Thousands in legal fees, you and your childrens life under a microscope, feeling raped in the court room to defend a right that should be GUARANTEED by the constitution! ALL BECAUSE A GRANDPARENT DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THEIR PLACE, and some grandpa judge feels sorry for you. BOO frickity HOO. Your grandchildren are a precious PRIVELEGE, not a RIGHT. Get that straight. If you thought you were going to change a parents mind from "I don't want GPV" to "OMGooossshh I am SOOO wrong! Silly me! I shouldn't be denying my children the love of a GPV that smacks my kids, and doesn't take care of them, or disobeys my orders the minute I walk away! Childrenfirst is sooooo right, I'm a fool!" You are VERY wrong. People come here to know their rights. Not to hear a cheerleadering grandparent who won a suit and most likely forever tainted whatever relationship with said defendants. If you think your decision to go to court isn't going to follow you, your child/in-law and grandchildren around for the rest of your life, ha! Have fun with your tainted relationships.
Take away ballistic... and I think our new resident GPV commenter Childrenfirst fits the profile perfectly. Typical grandparent wants US to see their side of the story... all emotional, of course. BUT guess what, we are the parent, we have the right to the care, custody, and control of OUR children and we don't need to see anything. EVERY parent should know they have the authority, and not feel threatened.
Catlvr- Not every state takes a married couples opinion into consideration during a GPV suit. (NY, my homestate, being one of them)
If you feel the need you can go back to court and ask an order be included of no 3rd party visitors during grands visits if it gets out of hand and impacts the children .
mistoffolees, I stand corrected. I was under the impression that if you're married, you couldn't be touched by these gp's laws.
This is so true. In my case, it's a slap in the face to my children to be totally disrespected and dishonered by "loving" gp's at their own father's funeral and never once asked about after his death, only to have the "wonderful" gp go to the court 2 months after the death to get visits with children who they claimed so much to care about and who never once bothered with my girls prior to his death, but whose actions SCREAMED otherwise. It's not about love and caring and wanting to be there for the kids it's all about control and revenge (at least in my case).
Perhaps, if she'd have actually acted as if she cared about my children by honoring them at their own father's funeral (she handled that....another long story) and actually asking if they were ok, if they needed anything, not keeping any sympathy cards they may have gotten from people, not accusing me of being the reason for his suicide, and maybe had actually had "father" engraved on his headstone (after using money that was fundraised FOR MY CHILDREN to buy said headstone--long story again) and whose ONLY CONCERN after he died was when she could get into my home and get his stuff -- that was the ONLY thing she ever asked me about after he died, and MAYBE actually acted like a HUMAN BEING and not dragged me to court, things would've been different.
And maybe NOT using my children to gain even more sympathy from people in her sick little game.
And causing me to thousands on an attorney--money that I could've and would've gladly used for my children...some grandma.
I only hope that as my children get older, they'll see her for the piece of work she really is.
I apologize for seriously going off track here, as I know this is a legal advice forum.
This is so true. In my case, it's a slap in the face to my children to be totally disrespected and dishonered by "loving" gp's at their own father's funeral and never once asked about after his death, only to have the "wonderful" gp go to the court 2 months after the death to get visits with children who they claimed so much to care about and who never once bothered with my girls prior to his death, but whose actions SCREAMED otherwise. It's not about love and caring and wanting to be there for the kids it's all about control and revenge (at least in my case).
Perhaps, if she'd have actually acted as if she cared about my children by honoring them at their own father's funeral (she handled that....another long story) and actually asking if they were ok, if they needed anything, not keeping any sympathy cards they may have gotten from people, not accusing me of being the reason for his suicide, and maybe had actually had "father" engraved on his headstone (after using money that was fundraised FOR MY CHILDREN to buy said headstone--long story again) and whose ONLY CONCERN after he died was when she could get into my home and get his stuff -- that was the ONLY thing she ever asked me about after he died, and MAYBE actually acted like a HUMAN BEING and not dragged me to court, things would've been different.
And maybe NOT using my children to gain even more sympathy from people in her sick little game.
And causing me to thousands on an attorney--money that I could've and would've gladly used for my children...some grandma.
I only hope that as my children get older, they'll see her for the piece of work she really is.
I apologize for seriously going off track here, as I know this is a legal advice forum.
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BL, I will be asking my attorney about this prior to our review come September. She wants nobody at MY home when she comes to visit.
What about when the end of her visit draws near, and I am trying to get them ready and she just keeps trying to drag her visit past it's time? She's done this almost every time now. She'll tell them that they need to go and visit their great grandparents (they live 2 doors down) and say goodbye and then I'll have to wait around for that to happen. I've tried getting them ready earlier and try to move things along, but she somehow still manages to drag it out past her time. I am trying to be respectful in someone else's home, but I do have baby twins at home and other things that I need to do.
I'm too polite with her is my problem, I guess. My mom raised me to be too nice. I'm afraid to stand up to her as I fear she'll use anything that I might do "wrong" in her eyes against me in court and I already feel the court's against the parents as it is. I don't know why I feel that way, it's just something I worry about.
What about when the end of her visit draws near, and I am trying to get them ready and she just keeps trying to drag her visit past it's time? She's done this almost every time now. She'll tell them that they need to go and visit their great grandparents (they live 2 doors down) and say goodbye and then I'll have to wait around for that to happen. I've tried getting them ready earlier and try to move things along, but she somehow still manages to drag it out past her time. I am trying to be respectful in someone else's home, but I do have baby twins at home and other things that I need to do.
I'm too polite with her is my problem, I guess. My mom raised me to be too nice. I'm afraid to stand up to her as I fear she'll use anything that I might do "wrong" in her eyes against me in court and I already feel the court's against the parents as it is. I don't know why I feel that way, it's just something I worry about.
LdiJ
Senior Member
Good grandparents do not sue for visitation....they may have to sue for custody if the parents are completely unfit, but suing for visitation does not help that kind of situation.
LdiJ
Senior Member
You just need to say something along the lines of "sorry, we have someplace we have to be, we don't have time for them to do that", and then tell the kids to get in the car.
Dang, I think I might need a whole truck load of Sham Wows to clean up all the B.S. dished out here.
