Surveillance camera w/ audio recording facing sidewalk is it legal?

[randomgirl]

What is the name of your state? CA

I want to install surveillance cameras around my house and those facing sidewalk, i want to have audio recording. I understand that California is 2 party state when it comes to audio recording, however would no expectation of privacy in public still prevent me from recording audio on those cameras facing the sidewalk? Meaning those people walking past my house have no expectation of privacy being anyone that stands next to windows or next to front door can hear their conversation? I been unable to find any case law on this, but i did find that ring camera has audio capability and it seems to be legal?

TIA.

 

[Just Blue]

What is the name of your state? CA

I want to install surveillance cameras around my house and those facing sidewalk, i want to have audio recording. I understand that California is 2 party state when it comes to audio recording, however would no expectation of privacy in public still prevent me from recording audio on those cameras facing the sidewalk? Meaning those people walking past my house have no expectation of privacy being anyone that stands next to windows or next to front door can hear their conversation? I been unable to find any case law on this, but i did find that ring camera has audio capability and it seems to be legal?

TIA.

Why would you record their conversation? Are you intending this for security?...if so do it without audio.

 

[randomgirl]

Why would you record their conversation? Are you intending this for security?...if so do it without audio.

Yes the intention is from security point of view. Plus cameras that i am looking at have the capability so i want to make sure i am not violating the law.

 

[adjusterjack]

The Ring camera's audio function is so you can find out who's at the door without opening the door.

If you are going to mount it to surveil the sidewalk either turn off the audio or use a different kind of camera because you'll never be able to use the recording as evidence for anything because it will be illegal.

Two people walking down the street and having a conversation do have an expectation of privacy.

 

[randomgirl]

........

Two people walking down the street and having a conversation do have an expectation of privacy.

Can you please explain it? If i am sitting on my porch and i can hear 2 people having conversation how is that any different from me recording it? How would they have expectation of privacy on public sidewalk? I must be misunderstanding something.

 

[adjusterjack]

If i am sitting on my porch and i can hear 2 people having conversation how is that any different from me recording it?

If you are sitting on your porch when they walk by they have the option of lowering their voices or stopping the conversation until they are out of range. If you are secretly recording them they have no such option.

How would they have expectation of privacy on public sidewalk?

"California Penal Code 632c For the purposes of this section, “confidential communication” means any communication carried on in circumstances as may reasonably indicate that any party to the communication desires it to be confined to the parties thereto, but excludes a communication made in a public gathering or in any legislative, judicial, executive, or administrative proceeding open to the public, or in any other circumstance in which the parties to the communication may reasonably expect that the communication may be overheard or recorded."

My opinion for the two cents it's worth is that two people engaging in conversation waling along the sidewalk do have an expectation of privacy. You can argue otherwise if you like and the question becomes how much money are you willing to spend on defense attorneys should you get sued or arrested.

I suggest you err on the side of caution and avoid the audio recording.

 

[Just Blue]

Can you please explain it? If i am sitting on my porch and i can hear 2 people having conversation how is that any different from me recording it? How would they have expectation of privacy on public sidewalk? I must be misunderstanding something.

But your not "sitting on the porch". No one is around when John and Jane Doe are having a private conversation as they take a walk and your security system is illegally recording them without their knowledge. I have had many private conversations while out on a walk...conversations I would have stopped having if I saw someone nearby.

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state? CA

I want to install surveillance cameras around my house and those facing sidewalk, i want to have audio recording. I understand that California is 2 party state when it comes to audio recording, however would no expectation of privacy in public still prevent me from recording audio on those cameras facing the sidewalk? Meaning those people walking past my house have no expectation of privacy being anyone that stands next to windows or next to front door can hear their conversation? I been unable to find any case law on this, but i did find that ring camera has audio capability and it seems to be legal?

TIA.

The burden will be on you to prove that you did not intend to intrude on the privacy of another.

If the audio on your surveillance cameras is ultra sensitive and can pick up private conversations between people on the sidewalk in front of your residence, you could find yourself on the losing end of a lawsuit.

An overview of the law from the Digital Media Law Project (2014):

http://dmlp.org/legal-guide/california/california-intrusion-law

Although the intrusion from the recording itself could be illegal, it is often what you do with the recording that will lead to legal actions.

 

[randomgirl]

But your not "sitting on the porch". No one is around when John and Jane Doe are having a private conversation as they take a walk and your security system is illegally recording them without their knowledge. I have had many private conversations while out on a walk...conversations I would have stopped having if I saw someone nearby.

Thank you for reply and other people that replied as well. I do have one question, would you stop talking if you were walking past my house and my window was open? I ask because most people talk loud enough that i can hear them while they walking past my house.

Either way it seems that legally i am on very shake legal ground.

 

[Just Blue]

Thank you for reply and other people that replied as well. I do have one question, would you stop talking if you were walking past my house and my window was open? I ask because most people talk loud enough that i can hear them while they walking past my house.

Either way it seems that legally i am on very shake legal ground.

Yes, if it were a private matter I would. It is a shaky ground...one can't record conversations they are not a part of. Audio is not needed for security, only video.

 

[Taxing Matters]

I been unable to find any case law on this, but i did find that ring camera has audio capability and it seems to be legal?

Given that prison time and a felony criminal record is a possibility for violating both the California and federal wiretap laws (and what you propose might violate both) I suggest you don't want to set yourself up to be the test case to find out if the audio recording is done legally. It is not illegal for Ring to sell cameras with audio capability. What matters is how you use that capability. Most of your security concerns ought to be covered by video recording. So I suggest you either turn of the audio ability or get a camera that doesn't have it.

 

[quincy]

Thank you for reply and other people that replied as well. I do have one question, would you stop talking if you were walking past my house and my window was open? I ask because most people talk loud enough that i can hear them while they walking past my house.

Either way it seems that legally i am on very shake legal ground.

You could post signs on your property saying that your home is under both audio and video surveillance, putting the public on notice that their private conversations may be recorded.

Of course, anything that brings attention to the audio recordings on your surveillance cameras could get you sued or arrested.

It is best to just turn the audio off.

 

[Taxing Matters]

You could post signs on your property saying that your home is under both audio and video surveillance, putting the public on notice that their private conversations may be recorded.

Even that might be a problem. It will raise issues like were the signs large and obvious enough to put all passers by on notice of the recording? Would the signs truly eliminate the need to get the consent required under federal and California law?

It is best to just turn the audio off.

Yep. I agree with that.

 

[quincy]

I agree that the signs could raise some legal issues for randomgirl. But signs are often required to be posted in places where there are audio and video surveillance cameras. It puts the public on notice that what they say and do should not be considered private.

 

[randomgirl]

Thank you for everyone reply, while it seems strange that audio recording can't be used while someone is in public, i guess in California one can't.

Being signs were brought up by some of you, is one even require to put them up if audio is not being used? I assume no being there is no expectation of privacy in public?