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tape recording of domestic violence legal?

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njguy732

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Pa. my friends lawyer suggested she keep notes on the domestic violence and other things of the like that go on in her home. she feels unsure abt writing down these things because she doesnt have faith that she will get the details right. the question i need answered is, is it legal for her to secretly tape record these incidents in the state of Pa?

thank for any help
 


njguy732 said:
What is the name of your state? Pa. my friends lawyer suggested she keep notes on the domestic violence and other things of the like that go on in her home. she feels unsure abt writing down these things because she doesnt have faith that she will get the details right. the question i need answered is, is it legal for her to secretly tape record these incidents in the state of Pa?

thank for any help

When your friend asked her lawyer what did he or she say?
 

bononos

Senior Member
njguy732 said:
What is the name of your state? Pa. my friends lawyer suggested she keep notes on the domestic violence and other things of the like that go on in her home. she feels unsure abt writing down these things because she doesnt have faith that she will get the details right. the question i need answered is, is it legal for her to secretly tape record these incidents in the state of Pa?

thank for any help
No. Not legal and won't be admissable.
Pennsylvania is a 2 party state, meaning both parties must be aware they are being recorded.
She may use voice mail and phone messages as the person leaving them is well aware of being recorded.
 

VeronicaGia

Senior Member
bononos said:
No. Not legal and won't be admissable.
Pennsylvania is a 2 party state, meaning both parties must be aware they are being recorded.
She may use voice mail and phone messages as the person leaving them is well aware of being recorded.

If she informs the other person that he/she is being recorded, then the tapes are admissable. However, it might defeat the purpose of the recording, but you never know!
 

snostar

Senior Member
VeronicaGia said:
If she informs the other person that he/she is being recorded, then the tapes are admissable.

Didn't you mean the recording will be legal, but the admissibility will be up to a judge to decide? :D
 

VeronicaGia

Senior Member
snostar said:
Didn't you mean the recording will be legal, but the admissibility will be up to a judge to decide? :D

Yep, sorry about that. The fact that the other party is being recorded would have to be on the recording itself also. ;)
 
I am not sure about PA, but in CA, you can be prosecuted for it. It's the invasion of privacy act. Check your PA state codes, some states fine you and/or imprisonment if the other party presses charges. I do not recommend it, can backfire. I think videotaping is a different story, look into that.
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
novembersea said:
I am not sure about PA, but in CA, you can be prosecuted for it. It's the invasion of privacy act. Check your PA state codes, some states fine you and/or imprisonment if the other party presses charges. I do not recommend it, can backfire. I think videotaping is a different story, look into that.

Let's try to make sense of all of this.

First off, PENNSYLVANIA is NOT a two-party state. It is an ALL PARTY state. That simply means that all parties to a telephone conversation MUST AGREE to allow it to be recorded for it to be legal.

However, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with this post.

is it legal for her to secretly tape record these incidents in the state of Pa?
This is a case of can one partner secretly tape another in the privacy of the home. And THAT requires a full review of all relevant facts, including who owns the home, is on the lease, are the parties married and more.

And UNTIL THEN, there is no point in discussion anything.
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
I'm going to have to back up a bit in my assessment of Pennsylvania being an all party state. Due to further research and a recent opinion IN THE SUPREME COURT OF PENNSYLVANIAWESTERN DISTRICTCOMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA,Appelleev.KIRK REKASIE,Appellant: which can be found here,
Pennsylvania case law seems to be changing the legal landscape in defining conversations from one phone to another as NOT concurrent with an expectation of privacy.

The High Court of Pennsylvania, in fact, specifically said in Rekasie, that based on Commonwealth v. Easton, 694 N.E.2d 1264, 1267-68 (Mass. 1998) one member of a telephone conversation cannot expect privacy in that conversation when they have no knowledge of the conditions inherent in the other end (i.e., extensions, speaker phone or other listening devices), even if the phone conversation originates in a private residence.

For our specific situation here, the conditions are a bit more comples.

In the context of a verbal communication, in Brion, our court held that Article I,Section 8 prevents police from sending a confidential informant into the home of an individual to electronically record his conversation by use of a body wire absent a priordetermination of probable cause by a neutral judicial authority. In finding a constitutionally-recognized expectation of privacy, our court’s primary focus was on the zone of privacy inthe home and the face-to-face conversations taking place therein.

The majority did not embrace an analysis based on the disclosure of information, which, as described above,and by the dissenters in Brion, would have resulted in no recognized expectation of privacy.Thus, contrary to the analysis utilized in White, our court, while still applying the Katz privacy expectation construct, found a legitimate expectation of privacy in face-to-faceconversations conducted within one’s home

From that reading, and although the party affecting the recording is not a member or agent of the police, the expectation of privacy in the home would see to outweigh the right to record.

However, there are exceptions which the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania have articulated in both telephone and oral communications within both the electronic and oral communications statutes.

Another exception to the wiretapping statutes is when there is not a reasonable expectation of privacy. The expectation of privacy will be lost when conversations are so loud that they can be heard through the common wall of two homes. In Commonwealth v. Louden, 536 Pa. 180, 638 A.2d. 953 (1994), the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania found that there was no violation of its state wiretapping statute when a sister-in-law recorded the obscene conversations, threats and arguments along with screams of the children that were emanating from her brother's home which was right next door to her own home. The two homes had a common wall. The conversations were loud enough to be heard through the common wall and, therefore, there was no expectation of privacy.

so, we come to the conclusion of this little analysis, which is, as the late Eric M. Noonan, Assistant Executive Deputy Attorney General stated:

The general rule in Pennsylvania is that electronic surveillance is illegal. For the purposes of this article, "electronic surveillance" shall include the interception (to include recording) of electronic (digital pagers, computers/e-mail, fax machines), oral (face-to-face conversations where there is an expectation of privacy/non-interruption) and wire (telephone conversations) communications. This general rule, and certain limited exceptions thereto, appear in Pennsylvania’s Wiretapping and Electronic Surveillance Control Act, 18 Pa. C.S. § 5701, et seq.

And THAT is why your friend's attorney suggested keeping note instead of recording the situation.
 

stephenk

Senior Member
"she feels unsure abt writing down these things because she doesnt have faith that she will get the details right"

Does she have some kind of mental problem that prevents her from writing, "He punched me, he kicked me, he called me names"?
 

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