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Telephone recording

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kcs00

Member
No I completely understand that he cant record her for any purposes. We was thinking that if she called wanting Dh to come pick up the kids and he gets there and gets them then she calls the police telling them that he came and kidnapped the kids.Then he would have on tape telling him to come and get them, hence a police report, which can be sumbited to the custody case. Thats all

Thanks for all the help
 


weenor

Senior Member
For what its worth what were are all talking about are state and federal wire taping that could lead to a criminal charge....however, if my ex was saying the stuff she has has been saying, I would record and take the chance....I really think if someone wanted to bring him up on charges that he has a good reason to record- not a legal defense, but an equitable one. The attorney ethically cannot tell him to do something illegal so I wouldn't bother asking..if it were me I would research the penalties if charged and see if its worth taking the chance...so far I vote its worth it..but I am not really familar with the penalties...

FYI- hubby started recording ex on the phone after we realized that ex was trying to get the child to say she had been sexually abused...at that time in Alabama it was illegal because hubby was not party to the conversation (one party state) ...The 11th Circuit (federal for those that don't know) had just come out with a case in which hubby was charged with violation of federal wire tapping because he was taping stbx and her lover's phone conversation. The 11th Circuit upheld the conviction..I got worried started researching case law and found the brand new 04 Alabama Supreme court case that held that a CP did not violate state and federal wire tapping because CP could stand in the shoes of minor child if CP reasonably felt that child could be harmed...the moral of the story is to check because all bets are off when it comes to possible harm to children. Btw- hubby's attorney was not aware of the change so I faxed her the case.... Sorry for the story but I thought it might help.
 

Just Blue

Senior Member
weenor said:
For what its worth what were are all talking about are state and federal wire taping that could lead to a criminal charge....however, if my ex was saying the stuff she has has been saying, I would record and take the chance....I really think if someone wanted to bring him up on charges that he has a good reason to record- not a legal defense, but an equitable one. The attorney ethically cannot tell him to do something illegal so I wouldn't bother asking..if it were me I would research the penalties if charged and see if its worth taking the chance...so far I vote its worth it..but I am not really familar with the penalties...

FYI- hubby started recording ex on the phone after we realized that ex was trying to get the child to say she had been sexually abused...at that time in Alabama it was illegal because hubby was not party to the conversation (one party state) ...The 11th Circuit (federal for those that don't know) had just come out with a case in which hubby was charged with violation of federal wire tapping because he was taping stbx and her lover's phone conversation. The 11th Circuit upheld the conviction..I got worried started researching case law and found the brand new 04 Alabama Supreme court case that held that a CP did not violate state and federal wire tapping because CP could stand in the shoes of minor child if CP reasonably felt that child could be harmed...the moral of the story is to check because all bets are off when it comes to possible harm to children. Btw- hubby's attorney was not aware of the change so I faxed her the case.... Sorry for the story but I thought it might help.


What a sweetie!! Does your husband have FULL custody now??....I hope he does...

Why do some mothers do this to their children?? Fricken sick! :(
 

weenor

Senior Member
baystategirl said:
What a sweetie!! Does your husband have FULL custody now??....I hope he does...

Why do some mothers do this to their children?? Fricken sick! :(

Sorry for the Hijack- yes we got fully custody in Oct. 03 while mom was in rehab for her crack addiction..Hubby allowed visitation above and beyond court order and ex took advantage and tried to poison the child's mind...we didn't know ...in January 04 during a weekend vistation, ex took child to ER at childrens and called DHR hoping that they would intervene. Ex admitted the child (they had joint legal) to the psych. ward. They evaluated child and ex showed her ass for three days. They called said we could take the child home...when ex found out she went to patient relations (Friday afternoon 4:00 pm) and made veiled threats of sexual abuse..in an abundance of caution the therapists decided to get the ok from DHR..case worker had gone home for the day, the following Monday was MLK birthday (not working). Child had stay at hospital an extra 4 days for nothing...Yes mom is one sick bi***. That's why we record...
 

Just Blue

Senior Member
weenor said:
Sorry for the Hijack- yes we got fully custody in Oct. 03 while mom was in rehab for her crack addiction..Hubby allowed visitation above and beyond court order and ex took advantage and tried to poison the child's mind...we didn't know ...in January 04 during a weekend vistation, ex took child to ER at childrens and called DHR hoping that they would intervene. Ex admitted the child (they had joint legal) to the psych. ward. They evaluated child and ex showed her ass for three days. They called said we could take the child home...when ex found out she went to patient relations (Friday afternoon 4:00 pm) and made veiled threats of sexual abuse..in an abundance of caution the therapists decided to get the ok from DHR..case worker had gone home for the day, the following Monday was MLK birthday (not working). Child had stay at hospital an extra 4 days for nothing...Yes mom is one sick bi***. That's why we record...


Well..from what you've said ...there is nothing wrong with her that a fatal accident wouldn't cure..;) ;)

How is the child now??
 

snostar

Senior Member
weenor said:
For what its worth what were are all talking about are state and federal wire taping that could lead to a criminal charge....however, if my ex was saying the stuff she has has been saying, I would record and take the chance....
I agree. I took many a chances and even transcribed and forwarded the copies to the Law Guardian and forsenic psychologist. It was worth the risk.
 

weenor

Senior Member
baystategirl said:
Well..from what you've said ...there is nothing wrong with her that a fatal accident wouldn't cure..;) ;)

How is the child now??

Had to step out for smoke's- child is now almost 13 she's been through it all- but would do anything for her mother..sad. I have to bite my lip several times a week so that I don't say anything bad about mom.
 

Just Blue

Senior Member
weenor said:
Had to step out for smoke's- child is now almost 13 she's been through it all- but would do anything for her mother..sad. I have to bite my lip several times a week so that I don't say anything bad about mom.


Your a good mom...and I'm sure your s=-daughter knows it too....maybe ...someday her mom will get better..:(

You got the wicked addiction too huh?? I have been trying to quit....no success....but I am down to 3 or 4 a day...:) I smoke outside...in the winter it keeps the smoking down...
 

weenor

Senior Member
baystategirl said:
Your a good mom...and I'm sure your s=-daughter knows it too....maybe ...someday her mom will get better..:(

You got the wicked addiction too huh?? I have been trying to quit....no success....but I am down to 3 or 4 a day...:) I smoke outside...in the winter it keeps the smoking down...


I smoke outside as well at home and at work..but its the weekend so no one is at the office and I'm smoking up the place..they love me Monday mornings!! LOL
 

two4two

Member
I know that in Texas a recoding means nothing unless the other party is informed that they are being recorded. this pretty much defeats the purpose. The recordings however will help your lawyer make his case and should be taken.
 

snostar

Senior Member
two4two said:
I know that in Texas a recoding means nothing unless the other party is informed that they are being recorded. this pretty much defeats the purpose.
Texas Statues have no relevance to this poster.
The recordings however will help your lawyer make his case and should be taken.
Do you realize you just advised this poster to commit a crime on the federal and state level which could lead to jail time, fines and civil penalties??? You need to refrain from giving such dangerous advice! Also, the recordings would NEVER be entered into evidence. See SEC. 2515 and SEC. 705 below.

The following is taken from Florida Statutes Sections 934.01 to 934.05, 934.10, 934.31 (1997); State v. Mozo, 655 So.2d 1115 (Fla. 1995).

Florida's statute makes it illegal to intentionally intercept, attempt to intercept or have someone else intercept on your behalf any wire, electronic or oral communication through the use of a device. It is also illegal to intentionally use, attempt to use or have someone else use "any electronic, mechanical, or other device" to intercept an oral communication when the device transmits by radio or by a signal through "a wire, cable, or other like connection" used in wire communication. Interception is not illegal if one has the prior consent of all parties, unless it is done for the purpose of committing a criminal act.
It is illegal to intentionally use, disclose, or attempt to use or disclose the contents (any information concerning the substance, purport or meaning) of a communication if one knows or has reason to know that the information was obtained through unlawful interception.

Privacy
The statute requires a reasonable expectation of privacy for oral communications. To be protected, an oral communication must be uttered by a person exhibiting an expectation that the communication is not subject to interception, under circumstances that justify that expectation. It specifically does not mean any "public oral communication uttered at a public meeting."
The Florida statute excludes the radio portion of a cordless telephone signal from its definition of a "wire communication," but the state supreme court in 1995 ruled that cordless telephone conversations are "oral communications" and are therefore protected by the law.
It is legal to intercept any radio communication that is transmitted by any governmental, law enforcement, civil defense, private land mobile or public safety communications system, including police and fire department systems, that is readily accessible to the general public. "Readily accessible" means, among other things, that the communication is not scrambled or encrypted. Interception of amateur, citizens band and general mobile radio services communications is also legal. Cellular telephone communications are protected by the statute; a first-offense interception is a misdemeanor.

Possession
It is illegal to possess any electronic, mechanical or other type of device designed and primarily useful for illegal interception. Such devices are subject to seizure and forfeiture.

Criminal and civil penalties
In general, violation is a third-degree felony, but some first offenses are punished as misdemeanors. Depending on prior record, purpose and commercial gain, punishment can range anywhere from 60 days in jail and a $500 fine to five years in jail and a fine of $5,000 or three times the monetary amount gained or lost.
Someone whose communication is illegally intercepted, disclosed or used can sue for equitable relief, such as an injunction, and for either actual damages or statutory damages calculated at $100 a day for each day of violation or $1,000, whichever is higher. Punitive damages, reasonable attorney's fees and court costs are also available. The statute of limitations on civil action is two years after the date when "the claimant first has a reasonable opportunity to discover the violation."
For information on the federal level read:
ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS PRIVACY ACT
UNITED STATES CODE
TITLE 18. CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
Sec.2511. INTERCEPTION AND DISCLOSURE OF WIRE, ORAL, OR ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS PROHIBITED


"Sec. 2515. PROHIBITION OF USE AS EVIDENCE OF INTERCEPTED WIRE OR ORAL COMMUNICATIONS
Whenever any wire or oral communication has been intercepted, no part of the contents of such communication and no evidence derived therefrom may be received in evidence in any trial, hearing, or other proceeding in or before any court, grand jury, department, officer, agency, regulatory body, legislative committee, or other authority of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof if the disclosure of that information would be in violation of this chapter."

"SEC. 705. [47 U.S.C. 605] UNAUTHORIZED PUBLICATION OF COMMUNICATIONS.
(a) Except as authorized by chapter 119, title 18, United States Code, no person receiving, assisting in receiving, transmitting, or assisting in transmitting, any interstate or foreign communication by wire or radio shall divulge or publish the existence, contents, substance, purport, effect, or meaning thereof, except through authorized channels of transmission or reception, (1) to any person other than the addressee, his agent, or attorney, (2) to a person employed or authorized to forward such communication to its destination, (3) to proper accounting or distributing officers of the various communicating centers over which the communication may be passed, (4) to the master of a ship under whom he is serving, (5) in response to a subpena issued by a court of competent jurisdiction, or (6) on demand of other lawful authority."

Also, I found a great resource for information on the state and federal level (with case law references) about this issue in regards to its application in domestic/family court cases:
http://www.divorcenet.com/states/missouri/mo_art14[/b]
 

ceara19

Senior Member
snostar said:
No, re read my post. Follow your attorney's direction, but I would advise that the third party make their presence evident on the phone to avoid any eavesdropping technicalities. The witness can testify in court. Even if a recording is legal, it’s admissibility in a court is a completely different issue.

If he speaks to the ex on speaker phone, the party "witnessing" the conversation could be considered an incidental witness as opposed to an eavesdropper.
 

acmb05

Senior Member
snostar said:
I agree. I took many a chances and even transcribed and forwarded the copies to the Law Guardian and forsenic psychologist. It was worth the risk.

So you not only broke the law which can get you into serious trouble but then you gave all this illegal info to the law guardian? You should count yourself lucky she did not turn you in for it.
 

ceara19

Senior Member
two4two said:
I know that in Texas a recoding means nothing unless the other party is informed that they are being recorded. this pretty much defeats the purpose. The recordings however will help your lawyer make his case and should be taken.

snostar is right, this thread has nothing to do with Texas. However, you are WRONG about the Texas law anyway. Texas is a one party consent state, meaning only ONE person on the phone has to know it's being recorded as long as the call does not cross state lines. And the tapes are VERY admissable in a court of law. I have had in excess of 50 hours of recorded phone conversations admitted into civil court evidence where one party was unaware the call was being recorded.
 
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