Tell me...am I the crazy one or is it him?

[BethM]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Washington

This is the short version of a long and complicated ongoing divorce saga. Divorce decree gives ex the standard visitation, every other weekend, summers and such. He never took anything but the every other weekend.

Two years ago I moved 3 and ½ hours away from him. I gave him proper notice, offered to negotiate the visitation to keep from interfering in his time with the children. He got pissed that we moved and cut them off. He would send an occasional email telling them they needed to come see him. They wrote at least once a month asking him to visit them, he always refused. He has gone 3 birthdays and 2 Christmases with no contact or gifts or phone calls. They have sent him gifts, cards and attempted to call but got no answer.

In Sept. he decided he was going to be a part of their lives again. He petitioned the courts for modification of visitation stating I was interfering with his rights as far as our youngest son is concerned. My attorney sent his attorney copies of emails the children had sent him asking him to visit and copies of emails I had sent. They dropped their petition. My attorney suggested that the ex visit his children’s therapist and work that way in trying to heal the damage that had been done.

He made one trip to the therapist and one trip to their schools and talks to the youngest child's teachers periodically. He has been to the town where they live on numerous occasions but has not attempted to see them. He is now demanding that they visit him for Thanksgiving and every other weekend and that I meet him half way. His children want nothing to do with him until he is willing to spend some time in therapy with them. They have told him that it is their wish to work through the problems and that they wish he would participate in therapy. He refuses.

Bottom line…he is making a lot of noise the last few days about me being in contempt of court and that it isn’t the youngest one’s decision whether he visits or not. The children are 13 and 20 (old enough to make his own decisions) by the way.

I wrote him and told him they were here and available to him any time he wanted to come to see them. Their therapist wrote him and told him he would work with him in trying to heal the relationship. He is sending threatening emails to me and the children. He tells them he doesn’t care what they want and they will do what he says to do. He actually told the youngest that if he felt bad and was mad that he better change his feelings. OUCH!!

My attorney is out of town and out of reach. My decision is to not force the youngest to visit him. I based that opinion on the fact that he has no court ordered document stating that I have to transport my children to see him and that he went nearly 2 years without enforcing the existing visitation order and by doing so put our children in emotional harm. My thinking is that he can take me to court for contempt and then explain to the judge why he has gone so long without attempting to see his children.

Morally I know I’m right. Forcing them to go somewhere that causes them this level of discomfort would be impossible for me as a mother….especially the youngest one. Legally I have no idea where I stand. I know that no one can tell me how a judge will react but I thought there might be those out there who have experienced similar situations. My question…since there has been no modification of the visitation order am I required to transport our youngest half way to meet him? Does the fact that I originally offered to meet him half way go against me since he chose not to negotiate that offer with me at the time that it was made? Why the hell do attorneys feel they deserve holiday vacations like us other normal folks, don’t they know they are to be at our beck and call?!?!?

 

[yessy]

I think both of you can do something to help your children with the situation.
Since you were the one to move, you have to accomodate the exchanges with the father. If he agrees to go half way good, but he doesn't really have to. You should help your children in letting go of the anger against their father. They'll most likely listen to you than a therapist. Handle the situation as not a big deal. They'll see that their father has made a bad move on not visiting or calling. If you forgive they will forgive. Maybe the father will see the possitive change and he'll make a change too. We have to make sacrifices for the kids, even if it means getting along with the other parent.(I know sometimes it's VERY hard to do!!) When we make it a big deal the kids' emotions change dramatically. Just go with the flow and tell them it's okay to see their dad, but ask them after the visit how it went. Not as an interrogation just as a casual conversation so they wont know what happened. Dad did a big mistake but I know he probably regrets it. He wasted precious time. Just don't shove it in his face.(fight the urge )

 

[BelizeBreeze]

Bottom line…he is making a lot of noise the last few days about me being in contempt of court and that it isn’t the youngest one’s decision whether he visits or not. The children are 13 and 20 (old enough to make his own decisions) by the way.

Bottom line is you are WRONG. The 20 year-old is an adult and can tell pappa to kiss his donkey. The 13 year-old has no rights whatsoever..

My attorney is out of town and out of reach. My decision is to not force the youngest to visit him. I based that opinion on the fact that he has no court ordered document stating that I have to transport my children to see him and that he went nearly 2 years without enforcing the existing visitation order and by doing so put our children in emotional harm. My thinking is that he can take me to court for contempt and then explain to the judge why he has gone so long without attempting to see his children.

And you are playing a very dangerous game. Because you will be in contempt of the court order if you do not put junior on the buss, plane or drive there and deliver his ass.

Morally I know I’m right.

Then post this on a moral forum. On THIS forum, the ONLY thing that matters is the law. And you're wrong.

since there has been no modification of the visitation order am I required to transport our youngest half way to meet him?

Finally, a legal question. And because you never ONCE mentioned what the original order states as to transportation or who will be responsible for it, how do you expect an answer?

At this point, he can make a very strong case for contempt since YOU moved, YOU are refusing visitation and YOU are circumventing a valid court order.
So, unless you can find something in the original order to post here (IN EXACT LANGUAGE) to prove you don't have to let the child visit, guess what? You're sending little junior.

 

[BL]

Crazy ? You are both acting like Immature Adults and putting the children in the middle of YOUR conflicts.

Guess what . The Petition was dropped, but the Orders still Stand.

What do you mean he cut the children off ? off of what ?

The children kept wanting to see their dad. Somewhere along the line, because of some Adult's behavior the children were taken to a therapist.
Some times therapist and Parents make mountains out of mohills. Very Immature.

Who suffers ? the kids. You both contributed to it. Now let him see his kids !!

Yeh, your both crazy, if you can't follow court orders for the best interest of your children , and keep putting the children in the middle of Adult matters .

It's a shame. Who gets hurt the most ? The children .

 

[BethM]

Since you were the one to move, you have to accomodate the exchanges with the father.

I don’t have to accommodate him in anyway unless it is court ordered. I offered to negotiate with him at that time because my main concern was what was best for our children. He cut off contact with them with no concern at all for what that was doing to them.

You should help your children in letting go of the anger against their father. They'll most likely listen to you than a therapist. Handle the situation as not a big deal.

I have handled a lot of things for a lot of years as if it were no big deal. Your advice is admirable but in real life and in my situation what you advise me to do would only set our children up for more harm. I can’t help my children get over their anger at their father if their father continually does hurtful things to them. I cleaned up his messes for years and saw that they got what they needed and encouraged them to forgive in the hopes that my gentle approach to him would initiate some change in him. It hasn’t worked. NOTHING, no amount of forgiveness, rolling over and playing nice doggie works with this man. He makes arbitary decisions that have detrimental effects on our children and there has to come a time when enough is enough.


They'll see that their father has made a bad move on not visiting or calling. If you forgive they will forgive.

OH, I forgive him. I have enormous pity for him because he has thrown away the most important thing a man can have in his life…the love and respect of his children. I’m not going to live my life angry at him or anyone else but when my children are angry and with good reason I am not going to dismiss their anger in favor of someone who just can’t seem to learn some pretty obvious life lessons….you dump on people long enough and they will eventually feed you a face full of butt. His children aren’t trying to punish him, they are trying to protect themselves from someone who puts his wants and desires above theirs. He has been handed forgiveness on a silver platter and he is the kind to slap you around with it.

When we make it a big deal the kids' emotions change dramatically. Just go with the flow and tell them it's okay to see their dad, but ask them after the visit how it went.

They are the ones who feel it is a big deal. Am I supposed to tell them their feelings are wrong and that it is not a big deal that their father has gone this long with no concern for them or seeing them? Would I not be sending them the message that their father’s behavior is acceptable behavior…something they could one day grow up and do to their own children?


Dad did a big mistake but I know he probably regrets it. He wasted precious time. Just don't shove it in his face.

Don’t worry; I’m not shoving anything in his face. They are though and I’ve learned a lot from them as far as standing up and not being mistreated by someone. My children think I am a wimp, it frustrates them and angers them that I am not willing to stand up to him. For years I have forced the situation, encouraged them to trust him when they could see with their own eyes that he couldn’t be trusted. I have called this man, my mother has called him, my sister has called him. He has been sent invitations to school functions, birthday parties and everyone involved has gone way out of their way to help me remain a part of his children’s lives.

I owe him nothing anymore except what I owe him legally and that is as far as I will go with him. Like I said in my original post, this is a long, complicated story with this being a minor part of things he has done over the years to his children. I won’t go out on a limb for him any longer and I won’t force my youngest to go just to pacify a father who could really care less about the child. I appreciate you advice but it really does not fit all situations. Oh, but if it did, things would have calmed down in this one a long time ago.

 

[SuzieWahoozie]

Contradiction

"I owe him nothing anymore except what I owe him legally and that is as far as I will go with him. Like I said in my original post, this is a long, complicated story with this being a minor part of things he has done over the years to his children. I won’t go out on a limb for him any longer and I won’t force my youngest to go just to pacify a father who could really care less about the child. I appreciate you advice but it really does not fit all situations. Oh, but if it did, things would have calmed down in this one a long time ago."

This paragraph you've written is contradictory. You say, "I owe him nothing anymore except what I owe him legally..." and then you say, "I won't force my youngest to go..."

If you REALLY want to give him only what is owed - legally - your youngest must be made to go. Otherwise, you will be in contempt and YOU and ONLY YOU will face the consequences. Those consequences could be very severe and include the loss of your child. If that happens, who wins?

I know you don't feel this is vindictive on your part...and maybe it isn't, but the court is going to see your failure to send the child as a deliberate act on your part meant to keep him from building a relationship with his father.

If what you say is true and Dad is a deadbeat, he'll rattle his saber for a while and fade out of their lives again. Will that hurt them? Sure. Will YOU be responsible for it? NO.

If you allow them to dictate what happens, in spite of the court order, you are teaching them that they don't have to forgive him and give him another chance. If he is sincere, you are denying the opportunity to build what may turn into a good relationship (and someday in the future that will come back to bite you). And most important, you are teaching them that we can all just ignore any court order we don't like. Hmmm...sounds like that's EXACTLY the lesson Dad has been teaching them.

Don't stoop to his level. Your son has to go.

 

[stealth2]

There's a court order. The oldest doesn't have to go, the youngest does. And YOU can explain to the judge why you felt it reasonable to go against the order.

 

[BethM]

Finally, a legal question. And because you never ONCE mentioned what the original order states as to transportation or who will be responsible for it, how do you expect an answer?

At this point, he can make a very strong case for contempt since YOU moved, YOU are refusing visitation and YOU are circumventing a valid court order.
So, unless you can find something in the original order to post here (IN EXACT LANGUAGE) to prove you don't have to let the child visit, guess what? You're sending little junior.

BB, I stated that the divorce decree gave him standard visitation. I guess I assumed that anyone reading this would know that meant transportation and who was responsible was not in the order. Sorry about that.

The decree says, " The father shall enjoy such reasonable, liberal visitation as the parties may mutually agree upon and such as will promote the best interest of the child. According to this order the father shall have the following specific rights of visitation.

A. Alternating weekends with the child returned to the mother by no later than 6:00pm Sunday evening.
B. First two weeks and last two weeks of summer intecession
C. One week during christmas on even and odd numbered years beginnning as such and such time with child returned to mother by such and such time. Time to be determined by parents.
D. Thanksgiving Day of each even number year with child returned to mother by 8:00PM
E. Each Father's Day from 9:00am until 6m
F. Easter Sunday each even numbered year from 9am until 6m

This isn't a question of "letting" the child go to his father's house. My question is what am I legally obligated to do. As far as I can see nothing. He is welcome here any time he wants to come see his children. He has always been welcome and in the three years before I moved their bags were packed and they were waiting for him when he came to collect them. No one is standing in his way of having a relationship with his children but him and the decisions he makes regarding behavior that is hurtful to them.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

And since you moved it will be up to you to prove that you have or are doing all you can to uphold the standing court order. From this post I don't see that.

Put junior on the bus, meet hubby halfway or send him with walkman to the airport.

THEN file for a modification. Because at the rate you're going contempt will be the least of your worries.

And before you get huffy (just a male defense mechanism ) MOST of the people who have responded to you are women.

 

[jackpots]

I thought the original posting was serious up to the last few sentences, now I am not so sure.

I echo most of the responses so far:
1. Though you have custody and the right to live anywhere you want, it would be inappropriate under most circumstances to create further hardship for one parent to see their children.

2. You were given a greater responsibility (as you have custody) to parent your children appropriately. It is your responsibility to foster a good relationship of your children with their other parent and other family members. Even if (add anything here). By fostering I mean, encouraging, and going the extra mile.

3. Since you moved, you should spend some of the 98% of the time you have with the children to drive the way back to see their dad. Ideally, you should move back.

4. Don't intertwine your issues with the other parent with the children's relationship with their other parent, their access to their other parent, or their dad's parenting of them.

5. Think of the lessons that you are demonstrating to your children. In fact, you even think that they have issues already. You think the boys are siding with you now - wait until they identify with their dad. You do not owe the other parent anything but if you are a good parent you owe your children.

6. You may not see it yet, but you will benefit from the other parents equitable involvement.

7. Though leagally the court should find you in contempt, you could probably lie, manipulate or hide the truth and get off quite easily. The courts are usually unfairly biased in your favor.

You may want to heed the good advice of these responses to your post or seek the good counsel of someone ethical and unbiased, someone of the clergy or a court mediator. And, have the courage to do the "better" thing - it will not be easy.

Regards,

 

[BethM]

So, let me tell you folks the rest of the story. Part of the rest of the story anyway. I had a stroke in August. I was in the hospital for 10 days. While in the hospital he was called and left a message by his oldest son and told of my condition and could he please call or come and get the youngest son because he was experiencing a lot of stress. He ignored that message. What he did was call his attorney and ask his attorney to petition the courts for modification of visitation. His attorney called my attorney and said to her, "I understand your client is ill. My client would like for his youngest son to come stay with him." My attorney asked how the youngest son was supposed to get there if I was in the hospital and unable to bring him. His attorney's response was, "we don't care just as long as he gets here." So, I tell my attorney to call them and tell them that my oldest son will bring the youngest son. His attorney said, "no thanks, it is not his responsibility, it is her responsibility that he gets here."

You can't negotiate any issue with my ex husband or his attorney. In thier mind it's about making me do something and their reaction to situations are assinine to say the least.

Up until my stroke he had no interest in them and their lives except for an occasional email to tell them about his new hobby and his vacations...never a question about them or how they were doing, nothing about school, the courses they are taking, if they needed anything. If they told him they missed him and asked him to come here he told them they were welcome to come see him any time they liked.

Labor Day of 2003 I talked them into writing him an email and suggesting they come and spend the long weekend with him. That would have meant me driving my youngest son over 2 hours to meet with my oldest son so the two of them could drive down to his home. He responded to that email the week after labor day weekend and told them he had been to Europe and hoped he got to see them next time they wanted to come. At Thanksgiving I bought airline tickets and sent them to visit his family in Michigan. They wrote him an email about Christmas and asked if they could come spend a few days. They went out on a limb and humbled themselves to him. They told him they just wanted to see him and make up for lost time. He wrote back and told them he had plans and would be unavailable until the first of the year. We had reservations and plans to go snowboarding so they couldn't go after the first of the year.

It turns out that his plans during Christmas was to remarry. He didn't share that information with them though. They found out he was married again in September from an old friend of ours...nine months after he got married. His new stepdaughter was at his wedding and the brides side of the family. His children weren't included though. That was a time in his life when they weren't needed. That is the way it works with him. If something is not on his agenda then it is of no importance to him. He has a keen way of letting his children know when they are not on his agenda.

They called him on his birthday and left a message, he never returned the call. They called him on Easter and left a message, he never returned the call. They called him on Father's Dad and left a message and he never returned the call. He writes them emails and says thanks for calling, call again when you get the chance.

My stroke was due to a tumor in the parietal lobe of my brain. On Friday morning I go into the hospital for a biopsy. Since I have been sick my income has been down. The youngest needed new winter clothes and I told him to write his Dad and ask him to send him a gift certificate. He wrote back and told the child that he gave his mother more than enough money to provide what he needed. My father took my youngest shopping for new clothes and you can bet the child will never forget who it was that did that for him and it damned sure wasn't his father.

Now that I am sick he is using it to yank my chain. All of a sudden he is all about spending some time with his children and being involved. It isn't even about wanting to see them, it's about causing me problems. His attorney was told by my attorney the extent of my physical disability since the stroke and that I couldn't drive. I wrote him last week and told him that if I was able to talk the youngest into coming that the oldest would drive him down. He wrote back and said the youngest was not the oldest's responsibility and it was my place to make sure the child was driven half way to meet him. He is a freak, a control freak whose purpose in life is to try and have some sort of power over me and he uses his children to try and exert that power.

I was finally able to talk to my attorney this afternoon. She told me not to take the child anywhere and to stop feeling threatened by him because that is exactly what he is trying to do. She said she hoped to God that he did file contempt charges because she would like nothing better than to hear him try and explain to the judge his actions. She told me she had been taking sow's ears to court for years and trying to make them look like a silk purse and that it would be nice to walk into the court room with a silk purse and that her job would be easy as hell when it came to dealing with him in the courtroom.

I buy airline tickets once a year and send the children to visit his parents and their other relatives. He has never offered to send them or take them when he goes for a visit. The first christmas after he left he went to visit his family and didn't call the kids on christmas day. When he didn't call they finally called their grandparent's to speak to him. He was not there. He called back three days after christmas and when my youngest asked him why he didn't call christmas he told the child he had forgotten. The child was 7 years old at that time. He is 13 now and that is the sort of thing he has dealt with from his father for years.

My ex FIL is a retired Appelet Court Judge. He was always a good FIL to me but I've not seen him in years. I talk to him yearly when we make arrangements for my children's trip to visit. I've never said anything to my FIL about his son's treatment of his grandchildren. I always felt it was not place to cause him pain and that as long as they were good to the children that was all that mattered.

I called him tonight and spoke with him. I told him what was going on and what had been going on since our divorce. He was outraged and he told me under no circumstances was I to force the youngest to go for a visit because forcing him would not undo the damage that had been done. He also told me that if contempt charges were filed against me that he would be in the courtroom and sitting at the table with me. He spoke with my youngest son and told him he had nothing to fear and he didn't have to go anywhere he didn't want to go.

Everyone has their own particular divorce story. Some people come through the process unscathed and some don't. I'm tired of my children being hurt. My FIL told me there was no way he would have ever taken one of his children kicking and screaming and that he wouldn't have one of his grandchildren go through it either.

It's easy to pass judgement when you only know part of the story. I called my ex tonight also. I asked him would he please consent to meeting me at the therapist's office so that we could figure out a way to co-parent our children. He told me to go to hell and hung up on me. Like I've already said, the only thing standing in the way of him and his children are his insane behaviors.

 

[BethM]

1. Though you have custody and the right to live anywhere you want, it would be inappropriate under most circumstances to create further hardship for one parent to see their children.

Let me ask you this, and this isn't even specifically about my situation. Let's just say situations in general. There is a divorce, the sole support leaves with 82% of the income and moves 1 and 1/2 hours away. The left spouse is left to raise the childre on their own and on top of that is to now become to major breadwinner of the family. Suppose this person is left in an area where her particular work skills are not called for. She struggles but eventually knows that to make it financially she has to make a move. How is it OK for someone like my ex to leave and take the majority of the money with him but when I move so that I can provide for the children that he now has a small financial obligation to it becomes inappropriate? I mean God Forbid, he be inconvenienced in some way? The three of us can sit and struggle just so he isn't inconvenienced? My ex husband is a military officer. He drives a $45,000 Infiniti and makes some pretty big bucks. When I moved I did exactly as I was to do according to state law. Him getting in his car to meet me half way as I offered him at that time would not have been any extra hardship. My moving removed hardship out of his children's lives. It enabled me to continue helping our oldest with college expenses and it increased my income by more than $15,000. I would think that the children being in a better financial situation would outweigh his hardship of having to drive a little further every other weekend.

2. You were given a greater responsibility (as you have custody) to parent your children appropriately. It is your responsibility to foster a good relationship of your children with their other parent and other family members. Even if (add anything here). By fostering I mean, encouraging, and going the extra mile.

Yes, I was given greater responsibility. I didn't go out and seek it, it was forced on me. It was not in my plans to raise my children alone. Those became his plans, his choice and I have done an outstanding job with the responsiblity he left me with. Not only do I have a responsibility to try and foster a relationship between them and their father, he always has the responsibility of putting just as much effort into that relationship. His relationship with his children is not my responsibility other than not bad mouthing him and having them ready and available to him during his visitation time. When they were younger it was a hell of a lot easier to make excuses to them for his behavior. They are big people now who can form their own opinions and identify their own feelings. I am not responsible for the fact that he has sh$t on his children to the point of them not wanting to have anything to do with him and I won't take that on any longer. At what point does he become responsible for making sure they want to be with him?

3. Since you moved, you should spend some of the 98% of the time you have with the children to drive the way back to see their dad. Ideally, you should move back.

I should move back and give up the financial security my children and I now have just so he doesn't have any discomfort? Does it not come into play that he should have thought about what might happen when he walked off a left a woman to do the job he has vowed to help her do? I spend every weekend with my youngest child. I have 100% responsibility for everything that is done for him. His father has to send money once a month. You don't think I wouldn't give anything to have a free weekend, time of my own to myself to do with as I pleased. If the man had been willing to negotiate the visitation I offered him when I first moved that is exactly what would have happened. I'm not the one who turned my back on that offer, he is. I suppose that is my fault also?

4. Don't intertwine your issues with the other parent with the children's relationship with their other parent, their access to their other parent, or their dad's parenting of them.

Their father doesn't parent them. That is the only issue I have with him at this point. I wish to God he could get over his anger at me and begin to act in a way that caused his sons to want to be with him. He has had full access to his children for years, he has had no relationship with them though unless it suited him. The only issue here is his INABILITY to parent them and his INABILITY to have a relationship with them and that has caused them HUGE issues. Believe it or not, a child is capable of developing feelings for a parent that is not based on something that was said or done by the other parent. That is my ex husband's reasoning. He says that since he is never here and never sees them that they must not want to be with him because I say bad things about him. Does it not occur to him and people like you that I could sing his praises all day long and if he continues to dismiss them they will eventually figure out on thier own that he not to be trusted with their feelings? Why is it that all problems are laid at the feet of the custodial parent? Cause it keeps the NCP from having to look at their contribution to the problem I suppose.

5. Think of the lessons that you are demonstrating to your children. In fact, you even think that they have issues already. You think the boys are siding with you now - wait until they identify with their dad. You do not owe the other parent anything but if you are a good parent you owe your children

This isn't about taking sides. They are not siding with me. This is about working your ass off to make sure your children get what they need out of life to grow into productive adults. Why doesn't he have to stop and think about the lessons he is teaching them? This kind of thinking is of my ex husband's mentality....your side, my side crap. There are no sides, just little children trying to make sense out of things that don't make sense to them at all and coming to their own conclusions about some pretty evident actions on their father's part. He also owes his children.

6. You may not see it yet, but you will benefit from the other parents equitable involvement.

I can see clearly how I would benfit. How nice it would be to have a date without having to worry about where I'm going to put my 13 year old for the night. Having a date spend the night, lay in bed all day on a Sunday afternoon without the concern of a teenager. Having a 13 year old who is emotionally healthy, living up to his standards in school, not suffering the pain of his father's rejection, not putting up with the outbursts and constant meetings with teachers and weekly therapy appointments. Hell I'm well aware of the benefits of having both parents fully involved in a child's life. How about I give you my ex husband's address and you can write him and explain that to him.

7. Though leagally the court should find you in contempt, you could probably lie, manipulate or hide the truth and get off quite easily. The courts are usually unfairly biased in your favor.

There won't be a need to lie or manipulate the system. I have docemented evidence of every visitation he has missed with them. Every email that I have sent to him, every offer that I have made, every letter that has been sent by doctors, dates of every phone call that has been made to him. I have friends and relatives who have reached out to him to try and get him involved and keep him involved in their lives. The truth of this situation will be a hell of a lot more convincing than any lies or manipulations that I could ever come up with.

And, have the courage to do the "better" thing - it will not be easy.

I've been doing the better thing for years. I've been the better person. My children are both in therapy with a christian counselor, in the six years that i have worked with my attoney she has charged me $2500. There are very ethical people involved in the situation and all they can do is scrath their head and wonder when he is going to get it. I'm not doing myself, my children or my ex husband any favors by continuing to play the game he has been playing. What will ever motivate him to change and become a decent father if he continually gets to drop in periodically and cause some chaos?

You have either got to be a second wife who likes to blame the first wife for all their problems or you are NC father who needs to clump all ex wives into the same category. Based on what you wrote in your post, my ex husband should be free of any responsiblity, able to act in anyway and I should shoulder all responsibility. Sorry, life can work that way for awhile but not forever.

 

[stealth2]

So your ex is an *******. Welcome to reality. I don't mean to sound unsympathetic, but a lot of this stuff is brought on by yourself. Why even bother to negotiate on some things? You apparently wanted him to take the younger son while you were in the hospital. One way or another, he apparently agreed to do so if the child was brought to him. Why argue over how? You can't do it but your older son can? Just have him do it!

And honestly - it is NOT your son's place to call or write his father asking for gift certificates for clothes. Children should never be placed in that type of situation.

 

[LdiJ]

So your ex is an *******. Welcome to reality. I don't mean to sound unsympathetic, but a lot of this stuff is brought on by yourself. Why even bother to negotiate on some things? You apparently wanted him to take the younger son while you were in the hospital. One way or another, he apparently agreed to do so if the child was brought to him. Why argue over how? You can't do it but your older son can? Just have him do it!

And honestly - it is NOT your son's place to call or write his father asking for gift certificates for clothes. Children should never be placed in that type of situation.

Stealth, you need to go back and re-read what the father's response was to the idea of the older son taking the younger son to him.

Bottom line is that she has an attorney. Her attorney is very emphatic that she should not send her younger son for Thanksgiving and that mom is not risking any serious contempt issues. Her ex FIL is also a retired judge and is giving the same advice.

I happen to agree with both her attorney and her ex FIL. Yes, there are standing orders that have not been modified. However when one parent basically gives up their parenting/visitation rights for two years, and then attempts to make demands without attempting to repair the relationship first, they usually don't get very far in court if they attempt to use contempt as their remedy.

Basically dad already tried to do that once, and dropped the case based on the evidence that was produced in discovery (most likely on his attorney's advice).

I think that mom needs to listen to her attorney.

 

[stealth2]

Stealth, you need to go back and re-read what the father's response was to the idea of the older son taking the younger son to him.

I read it the first time. My point was that there was no need to even get into that sort of negotiation. She didn't need his permission to have the elder child transport the younger. So why even bother?

(edit) And I wasn't even addressing the TDay thing. My point is that she is just as responsible for ramping up the tension as he is.