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Terminated At the Worst Time Possible

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UnhappyCampr

Junior Member
It sounds as though the spiteful merciless manager may have been out to get this poster. That's not illegal. Our employers and supervisors are not there to help us fulfill our dreams of home ownership or anything else.

The OP handed said manager a freebie, a "Please, take this perfectly legal and wonderful reason to fire me for a dramatic violation of company policy, since you want to anyhow." (And probably not have me qualify for unemployment benefits, either).

For minor violations of "the rules" as they apply at your particular place of business, it is usual to give warnings and write ups before termination. However, there is no labor law that requires that a company do so. You live in an "at will" state, and you can be fired at will by your employer. Your only recourse at this point and in this situation is to file for unemployment insurance benefits. They will look at the reason for your termination and make a determination if the employer had a valid work related misconduct reason to terminate you. Then either party can appeal this determination.

If the violation was egregious enough in the eyes of the unemployment system, it is classified as "gross misconduct" which means something so wrong that the employee did not need to be warned, even once, that they were NOT to ever do this, that a reasonable person would have known that doing this, even once without being warned would likely result in their termination. Classic examples of this are stealing money from the employer, punching out a co-worker, setting the workplace on fire, etc. No unemployment is forthcoming in that type of situation.

This one is sort of on the fence, as the employee does a brilliant job of poor me-ing and playing completely innocent of any expectation that this could be a problem or that it was not acceptable to do this because both parties were known to everyone and he was making no secret of what he was doing. He did, after all, give the deal to the manager for approval without any effort to conceal his actions or seeming expectation that it wouldn't be appropriate. The unemployment adjudicator would probably probe in the direction of what the company's policies were, what others had done in the past (had the OP ever seen anyone else do a transaction of this type for a family member or friend?) and what was said during the termination.

But I suspect that the OP knew totally and fully, exactly what the rules were, what the deal with doing this was, and he wrongly assumed it would be all right for him to do it anyway, since, after all, it was his fiancé and everyone who worked there KNEW it was, and knew (supposedly) they're on good terms and she had full knowledge of what was going on. That was dumb on his part, and he says he did it simply because it would have been "inconvenient" for his fiancé to come and get the check herself. Where I come from teachers sometimes are able to get off work sooner than banks close.

The OP works totally from a point of view that the rest of the world should be concerned about his financial situation, his emotional situation, his needs and wants and his and his fiancé's convenience and should be willing to make an exception to very strict bank policy based on "Aw, come on guys! This is me!" He's not so much a criminal, there was probably no criminal intent here, as he's sort of selfish and oblivious to any rules except those that benefit him.

It probably will be possible for them to get out of the house buying deal at present, but they'll certainly lose money. This is unfortunate for them. But this is not the fault of the bank manager. I doubt if the business will be devastated by his fiancé's closing out her account, either. These were the rules. You broke them. Someone who perhaps did not like you anyway enforced the rules as they were supposed to anyway. They did not make a special exception for you.

Unemployment insurance is a maybe. Moving forward a little sadder and wiser is inevitable.

Well said and I've taken into consideration your feedback. This is indeed a careless mistake on my part and again I take full responsibility of it. Yes I knew what the rules were but did not take into consideration the drastic consequences that were to come as a result of not abiding by them. I've conducted many deposits into her account but did not consciously consider the risks involved with drawing funds and cutting a bank check payable to an attorney for a real estate transaction that we're both part of. At the end of the day, what has happened has happened and there is nothing else that can be done about it. Indeed a lesson learned the hard way.
 


Chyvan

Member
If you apply for unemployment and are denied for gross misconduct (or any other reason) . . .

You should appeal it. Your significant other could have just easily wrote you a check that you could have converted into a cashier's check, and none of this would have happened to you. She can testify at your hearing that you did it with her permission, and there was no violation of your bank's policy. The policy is usually written so that you can't transact business for friends or family but that would be in your capacity as a teller. When you do stuff with her debit card, then you are just some friend of hers that she has a lot of trust in, and those arguments that you need to keep your PIN private are so that the customer has a shot at getting their money back in a Reg E dispute, not because if you do it that you're going to jail.

While there is legally nothing you can do to get your job back, if you can approach someone else, you might be able to negotiate your way back into your job.
 

UnhappyCampr

Junior Member
You should appeal it. Your significant other could have just easily wrote you a check that you could have converted into a cashier's check, and none of this would have happened to you. She can testify at your hearing that you did it with her permission, and there was no violation of your bank's policy. The policy is usually written so that you can't transact business for friends or family but that would be in your capacity as a teller. When you do stuff with her debit card, then you are just some friend of hers that she has a lot of trust in, and those arguments that you need to keep your PIN private are so that the customer has a shot at getting their money back in a Reg E dispute, not because if you do it that you're going to jail.

While there is legally nothing you can do to get your job back, if you can approach someone else, you might be able to negotiate your way back into your job.

I'm pretty content with not rekindling any relationship with current management. I have no problems with the company and wouldn't mind the opportunity to be employed by them again but would refuse to be under the same management. With that said, what do you mean when you say "if you can approach someone else, you might be able to negotiate your way back into your job"?
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I'm pretty content with not rekindling any relationship with current management. I have no problems with the company and wouldn't mind the opportunity to be employed by them again but would refuse to be under the same management. With that said, what do you mean when you say "if you can approach someone else, you might be able to negotiate your way back into your job"?

Ignore Chyvan :rolleyes:
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
Key words here - IF THEY WANTED TO. He violated a major policy, evidently with the full knowledge that it was a violation but figuring he was special and did not have to abide by it. Please explain what incentive any official at the bank would have to reinstate an employee who was fired for a trust violation and who still does not really seem to understand why what he did was wrong.
 

commentator

Senior Member
By all means, file for unemployment and appeal if you are originally denied benefits. I speak from many years of having done unemployment appeals. I know pretty much how they are going to look at this. In this type job, you see many people who have lost their jobs for situations of this kind. Some of them were totally oblivious and didn't think anyone would mind. They'd been doing it for years, and then one day someone noticed. Then sometimes, there'd be someone who was doing something really bad and crooked. Suppose you and your girlfriend had just decided to break up the night before, unbeknownst to everyone else around you and you were using your position to drain her bank account before you moved out? She could've held the bank responsible.

Your intention was not to steal or commit fraud. It was just a wrong thing to do because of the rules. You knew the rules. You didn't think it would be wrong to violate them. You made no effort to conceal what you were doing. You have a chance that the unemployment system will see it this way. There's no downside to filing a claim and seeing if you qualify while you are out of work through no fault of your own and looking for something else. Even if they say no, it was gross misconduct, and you're not eligible for unemployment, no one anywhere else will ever find out about it. Unemployment is a closed system.

But having your fiancé testify that you did it with her permission is completely useless and would probably not be allowed due to relevance. The point is, you did something that was against the rules. Your employer fired you for doing it. What you say happened will be weighed against what they say happened. Whether you had her permission to do it or not, you did something that was against the rules per the employer. It isn't in any way up to her to say whether or not doing it was okay with her or was a violation of the rules. They are not her rules or her perception of the rules, they are the rules of the employer.

It was a really hard lesson, and I'm sorry it happened this way. One thing I really learned while working with people who'd lost their jobs is that most of the time your co-workers and supervisors will probably stab you in the back if you give them any chances, "the man" doesn't ever care about your personal situation, and that employers can and will do you in if they want to and are given an excuse, and that anybody, anytime, can lose their job. It's a very insecure world. It helps to be very cautious, live debt free and be born independently wealthy.
 
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Silverplum

Senior Member
Suppose you and your girlfriend had just decided to break up the night before, unbeknownst to everyone else around you and you were using your position to drain her bank account before you moved out? She could've held the bank responsible.
That's what I envisioned, exactly.
commentator said:
It helps to be very cautious, live debt free and be born independently wealthy.
I only have two of those qualities. :cool:
 

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