This is a tough one for me ...

[David Jonathan]

Ohiogal ... Thank you for a point by point on this. "PAS" is something new to me - I did some basic reading on the subject, like I said ... I do trust the senior members on here - they don't sugar coat anything, they just say how it is. Sometimes there are outlandish posts, rarely, but it does happen.

anyhow - I do know that I'm not legally involved at all, but emotionally, I am involved.

This is an HRO, a "harassment restraining order" ... not a TRO ... not sure of all the differences, although from my understanding the HRO is easier to get, just go in, make up some garbage and they'll grant it.

Social Services was SHOCKED to find out about this HRO ... Ramsey County never attempted to contact them even tho they are supposed to whenever there are kids involved. They have put together some paperwork citing that he does not have custody of the children, and that he had no right to include them on the HRO, etc. etc. unfortunately she's still stuck waiting for the court date.

She was told by Ramsey County that the only people she could allow to be care-givers were either his parents, or hers. Her mom lives in a 1 bedroom apartment, certainly not enough room for 3 kids, and her dad lives in CA. She doesn't have many friends, as her ex never allowed her to make friends with anyone. Even forced her to drop out of school because he was afraid she'd meet another man.

My past dealings with foster care (in this county at least) are that they are way more flexible with allowing visits, this is through experience with friends, and having been on their safety networks in the past. They were allowed lots of weekend visits, all-day visits when there was no school, etc. etc. Phone calls were never limited either.

The HRO hearing is in 10 days. She's gathering evidence that shows there was no harassment, proof that the only reason he's doing this is because she's moved on and he's continuing to attempt to control her.

From what the court said, there is no "answer" to these allegations, you just show up for the hearing/meeting.

Everyone who knows the entirety of the situation (with the exception of his family) believes what he did was extremely stupid and surely won't look good for him in the future.

Sorry to everyone who was offended by my previous posts, I'm sure you can empathize with how frustrating this whole situation is. Seems the more you know about the situation, the more stupid and stressful it looks.

--Dave.

 

[cyjeff]

I have not said much here... but I will say that PAS is a completely discredited syndrome.

Everytime I add the proof, I have to vomit. I would rather not do that tonight.

 

[penelope10]

Quite honestly I do not believe that a social worker would say that they thought it best that the children go into foster care because he or she felt that there MIGHT BE parental alienation going on.

So gf friend has been clean and sober for a MONTH and A HALF. That really isn't very long at all. And clearly she doesn't have her head screwed on straight yet if she thinks taking the children away from the home they are living in now and putting them in foster care is a good idea. Seems like she herself has not dealt with all her issues, including being incredible selfish. She needs to continue getting counseling for her alcohol problem or start if she hasn't already. Then she needs to deal honestly with the fact that she has probably caused a lot of pain in many people's lives due to her addiction. (Including her children).

Come back after gf has really towed the line and proven that she is ready to be a fit parent.

For most of us on the forum, hell would have to freeze over before we would even consider putting our children in foster care, even if it meant we didn't get to see the children as often as we liked.

 

[David Jonathan]

... I'm not sure if what I'm saying is being completely understood here ...

She gets NO visitation, she gets NO contact, get gets NO communication with the children.

Ex-Boyfriends parents who have "Care" (not custody) have called her mother stating she will NEVER see her kids again.

Ex-Boyfriend filed HRO, stating he had custody (when in fact he does not, social services explained that to him, he even signed documents in the beginning stating he was aware of the situation, who had custody, who was taking care, etc. etc.)

Ex-Boyfriend has others harassing her (and his P.O. has been notified, and these other offenses will be brought up at his sentencing)

Ex-Boyfriend stated that social services told her she could not call when in fact it was the exact opposite - the ex-boyfriend and his parents were advised that they needed to answer the phone when she called so she could talk to the kids because there were problems with them answering in the past.

This whole thing has been torture for her, not seeing or hearing from her kids, so now we're just waiting for court to come up next week.

I could sit here and explain how her ex-boyfriend used to enable her alcoholism, and since he's been out of the picture, she hasn't been drinking often - in 4 months we've drank maybe 4 or 5 times ... but that's making excuses. I could point out how he would belittle her and then pour her a drink. I could also point out how he would try to get her to invite female friends over, or his ex-girlfriends over, so the girls could get drunk and he'd stay sober so he could have his way with any or all of them - but again, that's making excuses for her alcoholism.

He was/is truly an abusive person, those kids are not in the best environment. With them there, she has no way of showing social services that she is ready to take on the kids again. The way this county works, is for reunification - not just "place and ignore" like many other counties. That's why there is this whole "safety network" ... This county works with an outside agency who is contracted to actually work to facilitate quick reunification not just through giving them back, but through helping to find what went wrong, and how to fix the problems, then implementing a plan, and then following through by making sure the plan is successful, both in the short term, and long term.

What her ex-boyfriend did was file a harassment order, falsely, and the county in which he filed it did not contact social services / child protection services to see if there was an open case. He lied, they failed to look into it, and now she's stuck with her kids living in a household where his parents are calling his mother telling her that she will never get her kids back.

If she could sign over the care of her children to another family who could facilitate better visits, and less emotional separation, she would gladly do that, but from what she was told in the beginning, the only people she could allow that care to go to would be immediate family. Either his parents, or hers, otherwise they'd be placed in foster care - that's why she feels foster care is her only option to assure the safety of her children.

You can't sit back and state that him filing this HRO preventing her from contacting the kids that SHE has custody of is not an abuse of the system, you can't say that it's healthy for the kids.

sorry, that's more of a rant/vent - I'm just trying to explain the situation to the best of my ability, I'm sure you can understand that for me, even not being directly involved is quite stressful. Here's someone I deeply care about, going through what could only be described as the worst emotional torture that any one person should never have to endure, simply because she got out of an abusive relationship and has since moved on.

--Dave.