This one is a DOOZY!

[klhofbauer]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Divorce originated in FL. Living in AZ since 2001.

History:

1987 - 1990 married, child (1988) and then divorced.

Divorce granted joint custody with physical address of Father. (I lived in a different county in Florida absolutely horrid schools and we were pre-planning. I fought tooth and nail for the divorce decree to state 'physical ADDRESS' instead of physical custody.)

It is written in the divorce that each parent pays medical expenses when the child is with that parent. Custody swaps were on Sunday nights at 7pm until the following Sunday @ 7PM. Father would keep child on his insurance (back then his insurance was paid 90/10, and didn't cost a DIME)

We followed this and modified it between the two of us whenever we needed to. NEVER fought, didn't argue - if one of us were late, we would call the other parent; if one of us had to switch weeks - heck, we would call the other parent. Up until we moved here to AZ we lived 9 miles apart (though in different counties). We actually were good friends & maintained a good friendship because it takes two to make or break a relationship & we each had our faults, but our son was the #1 priority.

November 1999 - I'm remarried & ex has remarried & divorced for the second time. Out of the blue, Ex calls me and asks if I can keep our son indefinitely. Apparently something happened at work & he lost his job after 14 yrs. Let's just say, that if he had retained an attorney and not gotten emotionally strained, he could have sued and won a HUGE lawsuit against an "entertainment giant in central Florida" - even though FL is a right to work state.

Between 1990 & 1995, my ex had remarried, had another son & divorced this psycho crazy beeitch. I didn't learn 95% of the things she said and did until AFTER 1999. The type of crazy witch that goes up to him while he is at his father's funeral in June 99, and with their small son in hand proceeds to ream him "when do you intend on paying all of this child support, or I'll be sending you to jail you better believe it" - in front of my ex's mother - at his fathers FUNERAL!! At this time in 1999, my ex was not working, going through severe depression & being treated because of what WDW did to him. This woman - his 2nd ex is by this time married to a Doctor, has another 2 kids, goes on cruises several times a year, tells my ex's second son that his dad hates him, and with a last name like his dad's he is a loser, etc., etc., etc.... Put it this way.. on one of my son's trips to visit his grandmother in Ohio after my divorce from his dad sometime in 1996 - my ex's second ex-wife tried to tell ME that I wasn't allowed to call MY son at her house & she INSISTED that MY son call HER "MOM". I had my attorney serving her papers within days, I swear that woman needs prozac, checked for bi-polar & is MPD.

Anyway - the reason for the Ex-wife mention of my ex is to explain that this crazy woman gets 89.00 a WEEK child support for their son. My son gets nothing. If my ex is 1 week late - then she comes after my ex. After he pays support for this child, he has about 180.00 a week to live on. He is remarried a 3rd time, but as far as I know, his wife is not working.

Since 1999, my son has lived with me permanently. I have tried over and over again to let his father know how much he is hurting this kid by not calling, writing - ceasing communication. I KNOW he is poor; I KNOW he is embarrassed and ashamed and feeling guilty for not being able to do more. But, as I've written and talked to him about it on the phone - I say that our son doesn't see it this way - he just sees it as a great relationship they had suddenly disolved, and all he wants is to be able to talk to his dad.

Since 1999, I've received exactly 75.00 in monies for our son. Our son is 16 now, working, in the top 5% of his class of 428 kids taking college level classes, and on the swim & baseball teams. He will be buying his own car on the 7th of August. He knows if he wants to go to college he has to receive scholarships and/or loans. His insurance is going to run him 160.00 a month, and once school starts he is going to need every single penny he can get.

His stepdad and I have told him he needs to call his father for money, but he is reluctant to do it - he just says.. "dad will tell me he doesn't have it anyway".

Now that you've got this long "history":

1. We never changed/modified the "joint custody" decree. Mostly because I swore up and down that I would never beggar someone over child support; this Ex of mine is poor enough, he does have the right to LIVE. How would the fact that it is a mutual agreement between us that our son lives with me now from 1999 affect it if I went and asked about child support?

2. Between the time our son was dropped off with me in Nov. 1999 until we moved out here in June 2001 - I logged every time he called or came to visit his kid. It was a whopping total of 7 times. Would this have any bearing on anything?

3. Our son has a right to get a little bit of help. He only wants 15.00 a week from his dad somehow "guaranteed"; it would help him trying to worry about paying his car insurance, working, trying to keep grades up for scholarships, his sports activities, etc... Is there any way to just up and do this amount only through the courts? I'm so torn I don't want to do this to my ex, but I want our son to be able to not worry and get a little bit of help!

4. Given the fact that his first c/s order is for 89.00 a week from his second wife & second son, that takes precedence over another order, doesn't it? I told my ex that he really needs to go to an attorney or legal aid and have that modified. This 89.00 a week was based on when he was making almost 15.00 an hour - now he is making about 9.00 an hour (I believe that is what he told me). My ex said if he does that the witch will never allow him to talk to his son, and things would get worse. Does anyone have any advice that I could relay to him to make things any better?

I know this is long... so please don't persecute me for the length... I thought knowing some of the history would help with responses.

Thank you for your comments & advice.

 

[stealth2]

His stepdad and I have told him he needs to call his father for money, but he is reluctant to do it - he just says.. "dad will tell me he doesn't have it anyway".

This is, quite simply, wrong. YOU are the one who should be contacting Dad if there is a support issue. You should not be placing your son in that position.

 

[klhofbauer]

This is, quite simply, wrong. YOU are the one who should be contacting Dad if there is a support issue. You should not be placing your son in that position.

Interesting.. after all of my statement & questions, this is the only thing you are commenting on?

It's NOT support "issue"... ie: you need to pay this amount to help put a roof over your kids head, clothing, food, etc... All my son - and we - want is for his dad to help him with his car insurance as much as possible, even if it is only 20.00 one month, 60 another (or whatever amount) it is still "something". The "problem" is - as explained previously - the "legalities" of everything.

~+~~ Carpe Diem ~~+~

 

[snodderly]

If it is the legal issues you are concerned about then it does turn into a support issue.

Can't you see that you are the one who has not followed through on making sure your son had the legal support he had a right to? It is now you responsibility to see that your son gets what he needs from his Dad. It is not your son's responsibility to grovel to a man who you, yourself would not hold legally accountable. Don't you see that if you had held him responsible all this time that your son would not be in the position he is in now? What you are essentially doing is handing over to your son a matter to deal with that you should have dealt with years ago.

What are you teaching your son? To not hold others accountable and then when push comes to shove to go begging to someone who trashed him. That isn't real good for his self-esteem.

1. You won't beggar someone for child support but you would have your son do it? The fact that your son has lived with you all these years with no support would probably work in your favor....unless of course you go to court and admit that you let his father off scott free.

2. It would show that he is a deadbeat Dad. It would also show that you failed to pursue the issue. If it can be proven that you were financially able to pursue the issue then I'm thinking the fact that you did nothing would look worse than the fact that the father did nothing. It was your responsibility to make sure the child's father did what was legally right.

3. Your son had a right to monthly support from his father. You failed to make sure he got that by feeling sorry for your ex. It is your son who you should have put all those feelings toward and made sure he knew he was worth getting what was legally and rightfully his....support from his father. If you want your son to not have to worry.....as any mother would desire, then you need to take his father to court or fork out the money for your son yourself.

4. Why are you so fused with your ex husband that you are giving him instructions on how to deal with his child from his second marriage? That situation has nothing to do with your situation. I have some advice....tell him you don't care what his ex witch would do. Tell him you are not concerned about his second son, only his first son. Take a lesson from his second wife....go after him, get what is legally your son's right to have and stop worrying about the welfare of a man you are no longer married to.

I have to ask you this....Why on earth have you cared more for your ex husband's needs and feelings more than you have for the needs and feelings of your own child? Has it occured to you that your son might see that he ranks second?

I have two sons. One is 19 and one is 13. I'm in the middle of fighting for post majority support at this time so my oldest can get help with college expenses. I have fought for every penny we got from their father and I did it because someone had to stand up and show them they were worth fighting for. I would never put my children in the position to have to go beg money from someone who cared so little that they would not offer support. Stop doing that to your child!!
snodderly~

 

[cibyr]

agree with snoorley (SP)

Fight for the child support money what is rightfully belongs to your son!!!! Obviously dad does not care to fork over the money, he could be lying to you on how much he makes, hiding it not want you to know!! CS can force him to show them how much he makes
Do not tell Dad that you are suing him for child support just go and file paperowkr and let them find him so that his paychecks can be garnished too for the child support!!!! Think of your son!!! Do not put him in the position EVER AGAIN to ask dad for money.

 

[klhofbauer]

Folks...

While I understand that you both are saying "I" should be the one to be calling his dad... I am wondering if I am explaining correctly because it seems that the entire point is not a "got it". I'm sure there are many, many people who are single parents, and for them to put a NCP in a position where he/she is homeless sounds okay.. "as long as my kids get their money that is due to them, so be it"... but, I am not someone like that, nor will I do that! Even the IDEA that my youngest would be witness to this is abhorrent, and HE feels the SAME way because he has been witness to what his ex-step-mother has done to his dad. My son literally HATES her because of how she has treated his dad and his step-brother.

It's called compassion. Our son knows the situation his father is in - he lived there every other week; remember, he knows his ex-step-mother. Heck, he isn't even allowed to talk to his step-brother, as the boys were emailing each other for a few months, then she has gotten into her child's email and blasted my son about how his dad is such a loser, deadbeat, stupid, etc... *very sad situation*! And of course I am concerned about my son's step-brother; times I've talked to my ex, of course I ask about the younger son, we were all a part of his life for the first 5/6 years! Just like my ex asks about my 24 & 21 year old sons! Even telling a man to "get a second job" - is completely wrong - because CS just takes more - and vindictive ex-wives out there will do whatever they can to just get more. (I know it, I lived through it with my husband and his support - and that's what California kept telling him; and I saw how he got treated - even though he paid his support weekly like he was supposed to.)

We TALKED to him/my son about it trying to figure out what he thinks and how he wants to approach the situation after we showed him how he would need to budget, write checks & general financial information he needs to learn. We didn't just corner him so he could hear me say.. "YOU need to CALL YOUR FATHER".

Especially considering I have no problem calling my ex and talking it all over with him.

However, is there really a reason to try bash me, or throw out negativity because the way I raise my child and what I want to teach him out of life is different than yours? I would prefer that he understands the meaning of compassion - over vindictiveness; understanding over the give-me's; work ethics over none; and the X-generation think process of "I want what I want when I want it now".

Our son deserves a father who loves him, will talk to him, be there for him - because that is what he can afford; and not x-parents fighting, screaming, name-bashing, etc...

But.. this is all getting waaaaaaaay too personal.

I didn't come on here to talk personal, even though I used it to explain the situation better. I came on here to get advice and/or opinions of the legalities of all of this - since this is a LEGAL site; and I didn't know how to go about all of this particularly with the 1990 divorce & custody at that time arrangement.

Could we have afforded the finances of this before - nope. We almost lost our house last year due to both of us being laid off. Not to mention, his dad was laid off for almost 2 1/2 years after 9/11, plus he had major surgery.

Hearing my son say to us in the past, about a year ago.. "Mom, I don't care if dad can help or ever gives me any money because I know he doesn't have it. Besides, I would rather he is able to come for my high school graduation because that is more important to me than anything" puts a "PROUD" gleam in this mom's eyes.

PS: As far as why I am asking about what the ex should do about his second ex-wife.. it's because he doesn't have access to a computer, nor does he have access to one at work or a library to do research.

PSS: I'm still on EXCELLENT relations with his mom & my ex-sister in law. They will all be coming out to visit and staying with us. I send photos, letters, etc... and encourage phone calls, etc. In fact, my ex-MIL has sent extra money when she has it to help with things, (she actually sends it to her grandson and then extra to me at Xmas & my own birthday - *laugh*.. bless her heart, even with her chemo she still sent me a card this year, and her son & I have been divorced for 14 years!) because she knows that her son/my ex just doesn't have it. We KNOW - 100% - that he is NOT lying or hiding anything.

Well.. I'm off.. I'm going to go wake up this teenager of mine - and tell him I want my car vacuumed, washed inside & out and waxed for my birthday present... *grin*.. what a way to get your car washed!


~+~~ Carpe Diem ~~+~

 

[snodderly]

I'm sure there are many, many people who are single parents, and for them to put a NCP in a position where he/she is homeless sounds okay.. "as long as my kids get their money that is due to them, so be it"... but, I am not someone like that, nor will I do that! Even the IDEA that my youngest would be witness to this is abhorrent, and HE feels the SAME way because he has been witness to what his ex-step-mother has done to his dad. My son literally HATES her because of how she has treated his dad and his step-brother.


I have to respond to this. It will fall on deaf ears though and that is OK because we all have to deal with life in our own way. I'm not so sure why you feel holding a man accountable to the children he has is a horrible thing to do. I'm not sure why you can't understand that your attitude is only perpectuating this pitiful man and his actions. He has been married three times? Has children by both those marriages and at his age is unable to provide for either of them without being left homeless? Isn't it about time someone said to him....grow up buddy. Not, "it's OK, you can waste your life away, dismiss my child's emotional needs and financial needs and I will stroke you, you pour pitiful man." Give me a break!! This man is always going to be worthless to himself, to the women who marry him and the children he father's unless people like you stop coddling him. The only true loving thing you could do for this man would be to tell him enough is enough, get yourself a life and take care of your child. To do otherwise is only enabling him to futher dismiss his responsibilities.

Even telling a man to "get a second job" - is completely wrong - because CS just takes more - and vindictive ex-wives out there will do whatever they can to just get more. (I know it, I lived through it with my husband and his support - and that's what California kept telling him; and I saw how he got treated - even though he paid his support weekly like he was supposed to.)

You talk as if you are superior to mothers who understand their child's rights and what it means to that child to know someone will stand up for them. It is not vindictive for a woman to expect the father of her children to help support them. This man is paying $89.00 a week in child support and he is left with $180 to live on? You might want to feel a little of that compassion you are so proud of for his ex wife who is raising one of his children on that $89.00 a week. I'm willing to bet it's a drop in the bucket at the end of the month. And you think she is vindictive? He is a slug who has limited communication with your son, who complains about paying $89.00 a month for the son he does have to pay for and you are throwing away your compassion on him. In my opinion you have a skewed idea of what compassion is and who is deserving of it.

However, is there really a reason to try bash me, or throw out negativity because the way I raise my child and what I want to teach him out of life is different than yours? I would prefer that he understands the meaning of compassion - over vindictiveness; understanding over the give-me's; work ethics over none; and the X-generation think process of "I want what I want when I want it now".

You need to be bashed in my opinion. Compassion starts with learning how to be compassion for our own feelings. Learning how to respect our own needs and desires and learning that others should have compassion for those. You are not teaching your son compassion. You are teaching him to be an enabler. You are teaching him that it is OK to marry and father children and dismiss them and their needs. You are teaching him that it is OK for his own father to go years without seeing him or providing for him. How can you possibly think that you are teaching him lessons that will benefit him later in life?

Our son deserves a father who loves him, will talk to him, be there for him - because that is what he can afford; and not x-parents fighting, screaming, name-bashing, etc...

That is such a wonderul thing to wish for. It hasn't happened for your son though. You say, yourself, that his father does not see him or communicate with him. There doesn't have to be any fighting, name calling or bashing being done to get what your son deserves. All you have to do is contact a lawyer and let the courts deal with it. At least then your son would be getting SOMETHING from the man....even if it did have to be forced out of him.

I'm curious how you know so much about your ex husband's situation if your son has no contact with him. Have you carried on a friendly relationship with this person all these years in hopes that he will one day become involved in his son's life? Has your son witnessed you being friendly to someone who has basically cut him and his needs out of his life? Maybe you are a little mixed up as far as who you should be feeling some compassion for?

Think about your son lady and let this slug ex husband fend for himself and worry over his issues. Time you stop ringing your hands and feeling sorry for the fool and start paying attention to what is best for your child. Put your respect, concern, empathy and compassion where it will be best appreciated.
snodderly~

 

[nextwife]

Your son deserves an equal share of the funds that your ex DOES have available for CS. If his ex2 does not have a CS order that reflects his current ability to pay, he needs to go for a modification, and also show he has an arrearage to pay toward. You had a prior CS order, you should be entitled to a portion of what your ex does have, not all to child 2 and none to your son. Your son is no less entitled than child 2, and if that means child 2, whose CS order was never modified when his income changed, gets a share more even with that your child gets, so be it. If ex only has a certain amount available, then each child should have some share of that, even if one gets a bit less than before so his sibling is not left out to dry. AS many say, she knew he already had a son he was obligated to support when she got pregnant, your son should not be made to suffer because she wanted another child, nor should yours be made to suffer.

 

[klhofbauer]

Your son deserves an equal share of the funds that your ex DOES have available for CS. If his ex2 does not have a CS order that reflects his current ability to pay, he needs to go for a modification, and also show he has an arrearage to pay toward. You had a prior CS order, you should be entitled to a portion of what your ex does have, not all to child 2 and none to your son.

Nextwife - no, we didn't.. we had joint custody. We each paid our own expenses the week that either I had our son, or he had him. There's never been anything monetarily done.

Your son is no less entitled than child 2, and if that means child 2, whose CS order was never modified when his income changed, gets a share more even with that your child gets, so be it.

I *thought* I read "somewhere" that the first order stands, regardless if there are other children who get support. He got the divorce from his 2nd wife and was paying support for his 2nd child at least 3 years BEFORE I started having our son fulltime. At that time I believe he was net pay 500.00 a week, in 1996.

If ex only has a certain amount available, then each child should have some share of that, even if one gets a bit less than before so his sibling is not left out to dry.

Again, my understanding above.. I thought since he has this first order to her - and never any order with our son (his 1st child) that her's stands, and then if anything is available after that, this is how it works?

AS many say, she knew he already had a son he was obligated to support when she got pregnant, your son should not be made to suffer because she wanted another child, nor should yours be made to suffer.

Material items notwithstanding, this kid of mine has every thing he wants. His stepdad and I *always* find a way to pay for things, yes, *laugh* he is spoiled rotten, because, "he's my last little boy at home." He doesn't "want" for anything material. He is far from suffering, unless you count the fact that his dad was not in the past keeping the lines of communication open. He visited his dad last summer for July, knowing that this year he would be working, and it would be unlikely he would be able to see him. His dad has been calling every week now since late January and I let him know back then "please make up your mind, if you are going to call him, then do it, if not, then just simply walk away, because your infreqent calls are hurtful".

Dad has been keeping up with the phone calls FINALLY; and they've been happening every Sunday like clockwork.

 

[nextwife]

Sorry, I misunderstood. I agree that when each parent carries an equal share of the cost of raising the child, CS should be skipped. I didn't realize there was no order at all.

Your ex should modify his CS order if possible to reflect his present circumstances. I'm sure his ex would have no problem going for a modification to reflect an significant INCREASE in income, if that had occured.

 

[jez51]

Advise your ex to go for a modification, and to include both of his sons for CS.
Your son deserves half of that 89.00 a week he is currently paying. If the ex wife denies visitation then he needs to take her to court. CS and visitation are two separate issues!

 

[klhofbauer]

Good news.. *Yeah*

Just got off the phone with him; wanted to get him up to speed on the type of car our son was buying for 650.00 and about the insurance policy he would have.

He's sending out 100.00 toward buying the car on Friday; and then said he would send out 20.00 a week instead of 15.00. That will help our teen tremendously. He asked if he could just send 20 every week instead of the full amount out of his check, and that was fine with us - because that could be the gas money, or toward insurance - whichever Taylor prefers.

Patience and a good attitude prevailed. And the best part, his dad is doing it because he knows he should and because he WANTS to.