Underage drinking

[Alex_87]

What is the name of your state?
CA
I am 18, and i live in Los angeles, i often go with my friend to house or flier parties where beers are sold. There are around 200 - 250 of us there with maybe 20 guys over 21, the rest is 16 - 19 mostly. on previous parties we have left and the cops parked their car and just lighted their car beams to those that were getting out, trying to see who is REALLY drunk. but I have never got a ticket or something. my friends that do stay say that they just make you spill the drink that u have on hand and they wait until evryone leaves. i wanted to know if the LAPD does give any tickets or MIPs or what do they do? i mean they sure aren't going to try to arrest 200+ kids with maybe just 2 patrol cars. if u do get something do you have to go to court or can you just pay the ticket by mail?

 

[CdwJava]

There are around 200 - 250 of us there with maybe 20 guys over 21, the rest is 16 - 19 mostly.

I am appalled that they allow this to occur at all. But, that's one reason why I left southern California a few years back.

if u do get something do you have to go to court or can you just pay the ticket by mail?

It depends on what you are cited for. In most cases, you will probably be able to simply pay the ticket by mail. In others, your presence may be required.

- Carl

 

[Crazed98]

That doesn't just happen in California I've been to parties in NJ at warehouse were there were roughly about 300 high school kids get drunk and the cops came and just sat outside.

There isn't much they can do beacuse they obviously can't arrest everyone and they can't give everyone tickets, thier arms would fall off.

So all they make their presence known and make sure nothing more serious than underage drinking is happening like assault, rape, vandalism, drunk driving and so on.

 

[AHA]

That doesn't just happen in California I've been to parties in NJ at warehouse were there were roughly about 300 high school kids get drunk and the cops came and just sat outside.

There isn't much they can do beacuse they obviously can't arrest everyone and they can't give everyone tickets, thier arms would fall off.

So all they make their presence known and make sure nothing more serious than underage drinking is happening like assault, rape, vandalism, drunk driving and so on.

Right, because assaults and rapes would only happen outside of the the warehouse with 300 kids!! Please.........pull another one.

 

[CdwJava]

That doesn't just happen in California I've been to parties in NJ at warehouse were there were roughly about 300 high school kids get drunk and the cops came and just sat outside.

There isn't much they can do beacuse they obviously can't arrest everyone and they can't give everyone tickets, thier arms would fall off.

So all they make their presence known and make sure nothing more serious than underage drinking is happening like assault, rape, vandalism, drunk driving and so on.

The problem would come if things DID happen - kids got drunk, kids drove DUI, assaults happened, etc. and the police KNEW what was going on but took no action. In CA the police DO get sued for failing to act in a situation where minors are involved. An agency that fails to do anything had better be able to defend that failure to act.

Even my agency - which is small - would be capable of using our own and allied resources to take care of a party with 300 kids. I used to see the blind eye turned once in a while, but rarely when it involved kids and never when it was plainly obvious what was happening.

- Carl

 

[Crazed98]

Right, because assaults and rapes would only happen outside of the the warehouse with 300 kids!! Please.........pull another one.

No they wouldn't but if they did happen the police would be there to go inside and have the person who committed the crime arrested.




And just wondering CDwJava how would you handle 300 kids with only a few cops? You do know if you went in and told them they would be arrested they would all just run away. You would catch a few and probobly be able to get some to rat on others but would it all be worth it. You know they aren't gonna stop goin to parties and drinking.

Its a lost cause so as long as nothing serious happens no one gets hurt and thats what the police hopefully want.

 

[CdwJava]

No they wouldn't but if they did happen the police would be there to go inside and have the person who committed the crime arrested.

And given the circumstances - the police loitering outside an obviously illegal event containing numerous juveniles drinking and carousing - the chance of a suit against the city and the police department by the victim's family would be quite good. Success might be questionable, but it sure as heck wouldn't look good for the city.

And just wondering CDwJava how would you handle 300 kids with only a few cops? You do know if you went in and told them they would be arrested they would all just run away.

Sure - if you walk up to the front door and knock or announce that it's a raid. There ARE ways - we (the police) do it all the time. Do we get everyone? No. The point isn't necessarily to bust everyone but to remove the potential for greater problems by acting as soon as it is reasonably safe to do so.

The key is intervening early on before allowing the situation to spiral out of control. There is a college town near my city. They frequently ask for mutual aid to assist in corraling big parties or events. But a crowd of 300 CAN be handled by a dozen cops without great difficulty. Would it be better to have more? Sure! But a dozen is more than adequate to bust up a big party if approached properly.

You would catch a few and probobly be able to get some to rat on others but would it all be worth it.

If it stopped the party before too many drunken or doped up teens hit the roads and sidewalks? Yes, it would be worth it. Making a pinch isn't the goal. Ultimately, it is public safety.

You know they aren't gonna stop goin to parties and drinking.

Then the best we can do is encourage them to go to some other jurisdiction. We don't have those problems in my city because we jump on it right away. Rumors of parties fly fast and furious in a small town and we often find out before they even begin. And if it's not in our city then we tell the agency responsible for the city of county area where it WILL be held.

It IS possible to manage parties and raucous events. The police do it every week. Surrendering is not an option. And letting a lawless, drunken fiesta continue is a recipe for disaster - and inexcusable in my book.

Its a lost cause so as long as nothing serious happens no one gets hurt and thats what the police hopefully want.

Yep. ANd the best way to do that is to stop the party one way or the other before it DOES get out of hand.

College PDs have it down to a science. They can bust, cite and process a couple hundred fraternity goers in an hour or two with less than 10 officers. Often they do it with a half dozen.

But, if all you want to do is break it up, and you don't have the manpower to do it properly, then you send two to four guys to the front door, knock and loudly proclaim your presence ... most everyone will bail out the back and the party will be effectively over shortly.

The goal is the best approach for public safety and the safety of any minors present. Allowing a drunken melee or party with drunken kids to continue unabated is ASKING for disaster.

- Carl

 

[Crazed98]

Yes I see what you mean Carl that they would want to stop any incidents before it happened.

But I didn't mention that this party took place in a medium sized town where there were only maybe 4-5 cops on duty.

They did knock on their door and made their presence known but they were in a predicament because to leave this party and actually go anywhere such as your house or a resturant any place like that you would have to drive and I'm sure the cops did not want a bunch of underage kids that had been drinking driving around the town.

They basically told everyone who is underage to stay in the building and sleep there for the night but anyone who was sober could leave if they had a ride or car (they didn't say that word for word but they made it clear that they might beathalize you if they saw you getting into a car so those were the only options).

Thanks for your insight Carl I plan on becoming a police officer and i am very interested how they would handle difficult situations such as this.

 

[CdwJava]

Yes I see what you mean Carl that they would want to stop any incidents before it happened.

But I didn't mention that this party took place in a medium sized town where there were only maybe 4-5 cops on duty.

That's why you ask for assistance from other agencies when/if it is needed. or, you get creative and find ways to break up the party.

I have found that issuing citations to illegally parked vehicles often gets the desired attention from partygoers. And even simply knocking on the door and identifying the home or property owner and spelling out the law and their legal responsibilities/liabilities.

They did knock on their door and made their presence known but they were in a predicament because to leave this party and actually go anywhere such as your house or a resturant any place like that you would have to drive and I'm sure the cops did not want a bunch of underage kids that had been drinking driving around the town.

But once they have idenitifed and addressed the issue, an argument can be made about the existance of a "special relationship" and this could actually increase the liability exposure for the agency in the event of a civil suit.

They basically told everyone who is underage to stay in the building and sleep there for the night but anyone who was sober could leave if they had a ride or car (they didn't say that word for word but they made it clear that they might beathalize you if they saw you getting into a car so those were the only options).

That is an option, but it is not an option I would be completely comfortable with at all.

Thanks for your insight Carl I plan on becoming a police officer and i am very interested how they would handle difficult situations such as this.

There is typically no "cookie-cutter" response to any one event. There are key elements that must be addressed when responding to this kind o fcall, but you can't put every party into the same hole and say that there is only one way to handle it. I tend to want to nip it in the bud and go in with enough bodies to shut it down. Lacking that, I will make our presence known and start taking other enforcement action as necessary (parking problems, citations to the responsible party for the noise or other issues, etc.)

Ultimately, in a small to medium sized town there are really no excuses for letting this happen. In a big city I can see how it might not get noticed until it had reached critical mass or started to melt down. But in a city and county my size (25,000 in the whole county) concealing even the rumor of a large party is very difficult. And in the college town down the road they are a matter of daily life.

- Carl