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Unfair Collection Practices from Nursing Home

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artifactguy

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Illinois

My father was enrolled in a nursing home that accepted medicaid in March 2002. In June 2002, as he funds were being depleted, we applied for Medicaid assitance. In August 2002, their finding was that there was a spend-down to meet before benefits would be paid.

I did not think their finding was correct, so I appealed to the Controller of the facility for advice. He volunteered to take up the case as he stated that the caseworker assigned to review our father's petition had, in his opinion, a poor track record of evaluating cases for Medicaid approval.

In August 2002, bills were mounting and our father no longer had assets to pay for the nursing home. Periodically from that point forward, the controller of the home would call to state that the appeal process was going well and everything was looking good. Each month we would get invoices for the nursing home care -- now in the tens of thousands of dollars. However, contrary to the nursing home's stated practice, we never received a call asking us for payment.

Our father passed away suddenly in May 2003. In July 2003, the controller called and asked us for final payment. He stated that the nursing home assumed my father owned a home and that asset would be used if Medicaid did not or would not pay. When I asked about his previous reassurances, it appears that nothing had been accomplished -- Medicaid was not re-reviewing the case.

Only in July 2003 did the controller and the vice-president get involved and hand selected another case worker. Apart from some minor differences, the original finding of Medicaid was found to be correct. The vice-president took over responsibility to try to get information from me that would be helpful to medicaid to pay the bill. We cooperated with Medicaid, but nothing more happened to sway their original decision.

This nursing home did not perform an evaluation of my father's assets in advance of his application to the nursing home. They assumed he owned a home (he rented an apartment). The contract I signed stated that only assets from my father would be used to pay for bills and I had no legal responsibility for them as his adult child.

However, several months later, I received a collection notice naming me, not my father, as responsible for the debt which was close to $60,000. I replied stating the debt is not mine and forwarded a copy of the contract stating I have no responsibility for this debt. That was in May 2004.

Since that time I have not heard back from the collection agency or representatives of the nursing home. I think the controller knew he made a consequential error in assuming that there was a home asset that would pay for the debt. He was the one in charge of nursing home finances, so I would think that we would have received demands for payment as the bills continued to grow.

I think that representatives of the nursing home are looking for someone to stick for their unfortunate error and it appears to be me. Is there a statute of limitations for them to collect this unsecured debt? It has been 8 months since the collection agency last contacted me. Should I expect them to file a lawsuit? How long would that normally take? I think they know they screwed up and are trying to pin it on me. Please advise. Thanks..
 


S

seniorjudge

Guest
"The contract I signed stated that only assets from my father would be used to pay for bills and I had no legal responsibility for them as his adult child."

Have you showed this contract to the collection agency?

Look under creditors rights part of this forum. There are tons of responses from creditor/debtor attorneys (and I am NOT one) about how to take care of an unlawful collection.
 

BlondiePB

Senior Member
seniorjudge said:
"The contract I signed stated that only assets from my father would be used to pay for bills and I had no legal responsibility for them as his adult child."

Have you showed this contract to the collection agency?

Look under creditors rights part of this forum. There are tons of responses from creditor/debtor attorneys (and I am NOT one) about how to take care of an unlawful collection.
This contract needs professional review. artifactguy still may have signed the contract making himself the guarantor.
 
S

seniorjudge

Guest
BlondiePB said:
This contract needs professional review. artifactguy still may have signed the contract making himself the guarantor.

You are correct.
 

artifactguy

Junior Member
Confused....Here is the exact language of the contract

BlondiePB said:
This contract needs professional review. artifactguy still may have signed the contract making himself the guarantor.


Page 1 of the Contract:

Responsible Parties: Persons who execute this Contract, as "Responsible Parties", agree to act on behalf of Resident. Responsible parties who execute this contract acting in their capacity as Immediate Family Member, Representative Payee, Guardian, Attorney-in-Fact, Trustee, Resident Representative or Legal Representative agree to cause payment of fees and charges incurred by or on behalf of Resident from Resident's assets or estate. Responsible Parties may act in more than one capacity including in an individual capacity in seeking to secure services for Resident and agree to be jointly and severally lible herein and further agree to other applicable terms and conditions of this contract...

....A. Immediate Family Member: An "Immediate Family Member" is the spouse, any adult child, a parent, an adult brother or sister or an adult grandchild of a person. Persons executing this contract on behalf of a resident do so for all purposes permitted under the Nursing Home Care Act. Notwithstanding any provision to the contrary, Immediate Family Members are not responsible to pay fees and charges from their own assets or estates. Resident of the Nursing Home acknowledges and consents to persons executing this Contract as an Immediate Family Member and consents to this procedure....

Last Page of the Contract:

The undersigned acknowledge that each of them has read and understood this contract and that each of them voluntarily consents to all of its terms:

First Responsible Party (I signed this)

Personal Guaranty

In consideration of Facility's providing the services referred to in this contract, and other good and valueable considerations the receipt and sufficiency of which is herby acknowldged, the undersigned Guarantor herby guarantees to Facility the payment of the basic daily fee, special nursing charge and ancillary charges Resident may have incurred and the performance of all covenants and agreements of the above contract.

GUARANTOR: They asked me to sign this and acknowledge that I am the Immediate Family Member.

So.....my question is that when I signed my father into the home and asked if I had personal responsibility for his bills, the director stated "no" because the contract stated I was an "immediate family member". However, it appears that when they had me sign as a "guarantor", it looks like that signature of mine made me responsible for this debt....

Is that true?

If so, what about this whole business of the nursing home mismanaging the case....did they care because they knew that since I was signed as the guarantor, they would go after me?

What are my options....why do you think there has been this delay? Thanks for your help and assistance....
 

artifactguy

Junior Member
artifactguy said:
Page 1 of the Contract:

Responsible Parties: Persons who execute this Contract, as "Responsible Parties", agree to act on behalf of Resident. Responsible parties who execute this contract acting in their capacity as Immediate Family Member, Representative Payee, Guardian, Attorney-in-Fact, Trustee, Resident Representative or Legal Representative agree to cause payment of fees and charges incurred by or on behalf of Resident from Resident's assets or estate. Responsible Parties may act in more than one capacity including in an individual capacity in seeking to secure services for Resident and agree to be jointly and severally lible herein and further agree to other applicable terms and conditions of this contract...

....A. Immediate Family Member: An "Immediate Family Member" is the spouse, any adult child, a parent, an adult brother or sister or an adult grandchild of a person. Persons executing this contract on behalf of a resident do so for all purposes permitted under the Nursing Home Care Act. Notwithstanding any provision to the contrary, Immediate Family Members are not responsible to pay fees and charges from their own assets or estates. Resident of the Nursing Home acknowledges and consents to persons executing this Contract as an Immediate Family Member and consents to this procedure....

Last Page of the Contract:

The undersigned acknowledge that each of them has read and understood this contract and that each of them voluntarily consents to all of its terms:

First Responsible Party (I signed this)

Personal Guaranty

In consideration of Facility's providing the services referred to in this contract, and other good and valueable considerations the receipt and sufficiency of which is herby acknowldged, the undersigned Guarantor herby guarantees to Facility the payment of the basic daily fee, special nursing charge and ancillary charges Resident may have incurred and the performance of all covenants and agreements of the above contract.

GUARANTOR: They asked me to sign this and acknowledge that I am the Immediate Family Member.

So.....my question is that when I signed my father into the home and asked if I had personal responsibility for his bills, the director stated "no" because the contract stated I was an "immediate family member". However, it appears that when they had me sign as a "guarantor", it looks like that signature of mine made me responsible for this debt....

Is that true?

If so, what about this whole business of the nursing home mismanaging the case....did they care because they knew that since I was signed as the guarantor, they would go after me?

What are my options....why do you think there has been this delay? Thanks for your help and assistance....


I did some research after this post.....

In appears that this form of "double-speak" if you will, by the Nursing Home, could be a violation of Federal Law. If this home is also JCAHO certified, they could jeopardize their license:

This is what I found online:

"federal law prohibits any nursing facility certified for Medicare or Medicaid reimbursement to require a financial guarantee as a condition of admission or continued stay. 42 U.S.C. §§ 1395i-3(c)(5)(A)(ii), 1396r(c)(5)(A)(ii); 42 C.F.R. § 483.12(d)(2). This prohibition applies to any resident of such a facility, whether or not that resident?s care is funded through Medicare or Medicaid."

Please advise....thanks for your previous counsel...
 

BlondiePB

Senior Member
The time you took to type all that info is appreciated; however, I am not an attorney. I do know that nursing home contracts can be 15-20 pages or more which is why you need an attorney to look at the contract.

The most important thing about these contracts is HOW you sign them. On the signature line for the responsible party, did you sign your name followed by POA, Guardian/Conservator for "name of your father". If you did NOT sign this way, you made yourself the guarantor.

Nursing Homes are NOT responsible for acquiring Medicaid for residents. The longest Medicare will pay any portion of a nursing home stay is 100 days and that's ONLY if the resident QUALIFIES for the stay at a nursing home that takes Medicare.

If you are Executor of your father's estate, you can battle with Medicaid over this. This battle needed to be done a very long time ago. After all, you were receiving invoices for monies due every month and this was your notification from the nursing home that money was due.
 

artifactguy

Junior Member
Statute of Limitations

Can anyone offer advice on if there is a statute of limitations on how long the creditor has in pursuing collection of this debt? This is an Illinois case.

Thanks
 
S

seniorjudge

Guest
"(1) Should I expect them to file a lawsuit? (B) How long would that normally take?"

(1) Yes

(B) Before the statute of limitations runs.
 

BlondiePB

Senior Member
artifactguy said:
Can anyone offer advice on if there is a statute of limitations on how long the creditor has in pursuing collection of this debt? This is an Illinois case.

Thanks
Given this response, it's apparent that you are the guarantor. :eek: Check the debt collections section of this forum for the SOL as someone certainly has asked and was given the answer. Also, check on line for the federal and state statutes.
 

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