Visitation Problems..Please Help!

[Step Mom of 3]

What is the name of your state? NC, MA, CT
I will try to make this brief. There was a court order in MA for child visitation for my husband. Both him and his ex lived there. She moved away first (to CT) then he later moved to NC. Last year, my husband had to go to court in CT (b/c that is where the children live) and the CT court only modified for last summers visitation. Husband has to go back to CT to set up future visitation time. My question is, how can there currently not be a court order for visitation? Since CT court had only modified for last summer, shouldnt the MA order still be in effect?
Also, my husband has 3 children. The oldest has never been made to visit him in NC and the younger 2 have only been here twice each in almost 5 years. Their mother has alienated these children from us by telling them their father left them and moved so far away. She tried claiming he abandoned them. He pays CS regularly and calls them every week, even though the oldest wont even talk to him at all. The mother has told us this year that neither of the 2 oldest want to come and she is not going to force them. We already know that if there is any hope at all of seeing even the youngest (and hopefully the 2 oldest), my husband has to go back to court. Should he force the issue of making them come here when they clearly do not wish to? The children are 16, 14, and 11. The 2 oldest are girls and the youngest is a boy.
Thanks to anyone that can help...we are truly at a loss as to whether we should make them come.
One other thing, the mother refuses to help in any way with transportation. It is a 14 hour drive one way from NC to CT. What are the chances the judge will order her to go 50/50? Remember, she moved away first to CT from MA. Then he moved to NC from MA. Thanks..

 

[haiku]

OK I am going to try to help you a bit, but I need some clarification first.

massachusetts has the strictest law in the US about move aways when it comes to children under court order.

But really once he moved to NORTH CAROLINA, her moving to CT. is not such a big deal. (initially I was under the immpression she had moved to North Carolina)

1.Did your husband take her to court in MASSACHUSETTS before she moved to CT?

2. you mention your husband took her to court in CT. Did he domesticate the ma. order? (this had to involve going to the Massachusetts court house that they originally filed in, and getting fancy copies of the order, for CT).

CT. would then adopt the Ma. order as thier own and enforce THAT order.

Who told your husband he has to go back to court to set up visitation? you may be confusing that with going back to CT. to enforce his visitation order, and modify it to reflect the new distance situation.

Now, North Carolina is a huge, distance from New England,and he created that distance, so likely she would not be responsible for the costs involved in transporting from THAT far. You can ask to continue a 50/50 arrangment, but she is well within her right to protest that, and possibly get it.

A better idea is to realize that moving such a long distance has likely contributed to 'the rift" between him and his kids, and attempt to accomodate that, by working on a new visitation agreement that eases him back into thier lives. being sensitive to the age of the children is improtant as "forcing" a 16 year old, may not help thier future relationahip at all, but by being sensitive to the lack of visitation and relationship these past few years may help.

 

[Step Mom of 3]

The original court order for CS and visitation is in MA. His ex was supposed to get the CS moved to CT (by court order in 2002) and she has not done this yet so the CS is STILL in MA.
They have been to court so many times (her taking him for contempt b/c he was behind in CS). In the very beginning, she had papers made up that he signed and they had them notarized. But he didnt "take" her to court before she moved, he agreed that she could and that was also in the papers.
Last year, she tried refusing visitation again. She does it EVERY year. So he called MA (where the original order is) and they told him that since neither of them live in MA anymore, he would have to file for a modification in CT. We had a lawyer when he went to court in CT last year and we gave her all the copies of everything from the court in MA.
My husband called the clerk of court in CT and they told him that he would have to come back to court in CT for future visitation and that the order for MA is no good anymore.
I just dont understand how they can just take an order with nothing to supercede it and it all just disappears.
The distance situation is not new. He has been living in NC for almost 5 years. She has been living in CT for 5 years.
There never was a 50/50 arrangement. He has been responsible for ALL transportation since day one except one time, she met him halfway to get the kids back. Then she turned right around and took him to court (in MA) for contempt saying he refused to bring the kids back. He told the judge that he simply could not afford the travel costs and the judge ordered HER to pay HIM $40.
Another thing, last year (in CT), it was my husband and his lawyer, his ex and her lawyer and a family relations officer in a room mediating over last years schedule. The FRO told them all and even wrote it down that last year would be the last time my husband would be responsible for all transportation.

I am sure that him moving that far away has impacted his kid's lives. He has tried to have constant contact with them and its not easy when there is so much interference on her part. For almost a whole year, he had no contact whatsoever b/c she would not allow him to have their phone number or to see the kids at all. He couldnt call, couldnt see them...nothing! She has been a big influence on the kid's decisions.
She moved away first to start her new life. Was he not allowed to do the same? It shouldnt matter how far away he lives, if she would stop interefering, then maybe they could salvage what little relationship they have left. If she would stop interfering, and cooperate a little more (for the sake of her children) then I wouldnt even be on this board right now..
Thanks for your help. I just want this resolved. We are almost ready to just give up the hope of ever seeing them again.

 

[haiku]

First off CLERKS are not lawyers or judges, and you cannot depend on them for legal advice.

When your husband went to court in CT. with his Ma. legal papers, it was likely called a "motion to enforce" that was so that Connecticut could legally enforce the Massachusets order.

what matters is what your husbands court papers and any subsequent modifications signed by the court say.

What the mediator said does not amount to anything, if the judge did not sign anything.

get your papers out, and read them.

I would say at this point, your husband likely needs to retain a lawyer in CT. and begin the process of modifying his order.

 

[Zephyr]

fighting fire with fire is not always the answer but one could also say that had he pressed contempt charges every time she would not allow a visit or a phone call, he may very well have custody of the children now.


get a lawyer go back to court, and re-establish the bond with the kids, no advice is really going to help you, a visitation order will, I hope you have been documenting allof the times he has been refused contact and visitation with his kids? if not, start

 

[Step Mom of 3]

Well we have both had bad experiences with lawyers and cannot afford another one at this time. He is just going to have to take her to court again. The thing is, she says there is no visitation order. If there isnt, then he cant get her for contempt. Thats why I am trying so desparately to find out if the MA order still stands. He has taken her back to court for contempt but not every single time (b/c of the distance) and all they do is try to work out another arrangement for him to have at least one of his kids. He has never had all 3 of them for visitation. He has no rights at all..those are HER kids. Thanks again..

 

[Step Mom of 3]

Oh yeah and we do have documentation of everything, 5 years worth. For all the good it has ever done him anyway, we still continue to document. I really appreciate the advice..

 

[LdiJ]

Well we have both had bad experiences with lawyers and cannot afford another one at this time. He is just going to have to take her to court again. The thing is, she says there is no visitation order. If there isnt, then he cant get her for contempt. Thats why I am trying so desparately to find out if the MA order still stands. He has taken her back to court for contempt but not every single time (b/c of the distance) and all they do is try to work out another arrangement for him to have at least one of his kids. He has never had all 3 of them for visitation. He has no rights at all..those are HER kids. Thanks again..

It sounds to me like its possible that the MA order may not stand any longer....It sounds to me like CT made new orders, and deliberately left the issue of future visitation open for further proceedings. I could be wrong, but I think that is why you are getting information that the MA order is no longer in effect. Its not the way things are normally done, but your situation isn't all that normal either.

In addition...sometimes when a parent moves a long distance away it renders prior orders unenforceable because the terms of the order don't work with the distance.

Your husband really should have filed to modify the visitation order 5 years ago when he moved to NC. You would be in a much stronger position now.
Also, since he created the distance it is possible that a judge would make him responsible for the transportation costs. The fact that its been 5 years isn't guaranteed to change that.

The other issue is the teens....and that is SUCH a tough one. Teens need both of their parents...but honestly, if you force a teen to visit...if they REALLY don't want to visit...then you are very likely setting yourself up for a situation where they tell you to take a hike the day they turn 18. It's almost a danged if you do, danged if you don't situation.....particularly with the 16 year old as she will be turning 18 in less than two years. With kids that age its difficult even when the relationships are good, because they have friends, jobs, even boyfriends that cause them not to be away from home for extended periods during the summer.

I wish you luck on struggling with that one....however keep in mind that we have many more years of an adult relationship with our children than we do a childhood one....so don't completely lose slight of that when making your decision.

 

[Step Mom of 3]

Thanks. The order (in MA) says specifically that he is to get 4 consecutive weeks in the summer in NC, and 3 weekends a year in CT.
I found the last order (from CT) dated May 17, 2004. The first thing it says about visitation is that father will communicate directly with mother to arrange visitation. I am assuming this was just for last year??
Then it says son will visit with the father for 2 weeks in NC. Father will ensure that son returns to mother's care as scheduled. Father will provide all transportation for the summer of 2004.
No where on there does it say anything about my husband coming back to court to arrange for future visitation (thats what his ex told us).
They are supposed to come to an agreement and since they cant do that then if he wants to see them, he is going to have to go back to court.
We are both at the point that we just dont want to fight anymore with her. There is no reasoning with her.
Its such a shame that anyone would have to FIGHT for the right to see their own kids anyway. Its also a shame that there is so much animosity over children that BOTH parents created. My husband is a good dad to his children. THEY are missing out the most.
We have pretty much already decided that we were not going to force the 14 year old to come. We were just going to get our son, but now, thats not even a possibility anymore. My H refuses to be under her control anymore and thats the only way we could see him, by HER rules, or go to court, which we cant do at this time.
Anyway, I guess this order from CT does supercede the MA order...??? She had it put in there about arranging with her for visitation. I am not sure whether that means only for last year or also for upcoming years. This is such a mess...I cant believe my husband signed it without knowing for sure about future visits!!! Thanks everyone for all the help!

 

[Step Mom of 3]

Okay, I just found the first order from CT (dated September 8, 2003) and it says: [Agreement of the parties post judgment.] Issue of visitation and access to minor children is referred to Family Relations for mediation. All pending motions are marked off pending FRO report. Then it goes on and on about other stuff. At the end, it says: Until further order of this court. So thats it. I guess the ex was right about one thing after all. Thanks again everyone for your help...