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Visitation with no court orders

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WittyUserName

Senior Member
What is the name of your state? Idaho. And possibly denial.

Dad and I are in the middle of trying to negotiate a custody/visitation agreement for our daughter. Support order has been in place for years, but we do not have orders regarding custody/visitation. We've found a mediator, and both have had our preliminary individual meetings with her. Mine was in person, Dad's via telephone. Dad will be flying in from his residence in another state so that we can do the joint mediation session in person.

I had asked to do the in-person mediation in May, as I have planned to be out of town for a few weeks in June, and will be unavailable. The mediator called Friday to say that Dad was asking if we could push mediation back to June 7, due to his scheduling. We (DD and I) aren't leaving until the 8th, so although it's not my ideal timeline, it's workable.

Here's my issue – Dad and I had talked previously about him spending some time with DD when he was here in town. The two of them have not seen each other in 18 months. He's called twice in the last three months to tell her he was coming for a visit and then backed out less than 24 hours ahead. So she's been anticipating a possible Dad visit for a while. I do not want to keep her from her time with Dad. It might work really nicely, actually; Dad and I head to mediation in the a.m., after which he and DD can go and spend some time together. As long as she's home by the next afternoon with plenty of time to catch our flight, no problem.

However, while 90% of me is confident that this will likely be a no-hassle, Mom & Dad-are-on-our-best-behavior kind of visit...there's a slightly fearful 10% (bolstered, I might add, from lots of time spent perusing the often-entertaining archives of this very forum) that asks, What if he doesn't return her at the appointed time? Because with no custody/visitation orders, I might be in for all sorts of mess. Given the status quo and our family history, I'm certain I could get her back but it could take an emergency hearing, etc. and if he were to head home to CA with DD in tow then that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

My thought was to at least get written confirmation of pick-up & return times from Dad. But is that likely to do me any good if he doesn't return her? I mean, that's obviously not enforceable, so is it worth the effort? And given that he's going to head out with DD post-mediation – if he leaves upset/angry and makes some stupid decision....oy vey. His “I can take my child away from you anytime I feel like it” threat hasn't surfaced in a while, but then again neither has he. It's possible I may have been lulled into complacency by 18 very quiet and peaceful months.

I can't completely prevent him from possibly doing something dumb, but is there a way to be prepared in the unlikely event he tries? How do I attempt covering my bases, at least?What is the name of your state?
 


WittyUserName

Senior Member
Bump plus reflection

Here's where I am after some more thought and research...

I clarify the schedule with Dad via email for this visit. He's only in town overnight anyway; work is pretty busy and he's not got a lot of time to be here in town.

Post-mediation, DD goes to hang out with Dad. As I wave goodbye, I cheerily toss off "See you tonight!", or somesuch, so as to reinforce this agreed-upon schedule.

Then I hang out and hope that he is as committed to maintaining a positive co-parenting relationship as I am. Like the Zen saying, Leap and the net will appear.

(I would feel so much better if it was me that was leaping, though. I feel like I'm baby-tossing and hoping for a net. But this is her Dad, after all...maybe this'll be the visit that goes smoothly for once. He'll bring her home wired up on junk food and loaded with annoying toys, but he'll bring her home.)

Right?
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Here's where I am after some more thought and research...

I clarify the schedule with Dad via email for this visit. He's only in town overnight anyway; work is pretty busy and he's not got a lot of time to be here in town.

Post-mediation, DD goes to hang out with Dad. As I wave goodbye, I cheerily toss off "See you tonight!", or somesuch, so as to reinforce this agreed-upon schedule.

Then I hang out and hope that he is as committed to maintaining a positive co-parenting relationship as I am. Like the Zen saying, Leap and the net will appear.

(I would feel so much better if it was me that was leaping, though. I feel like I'm baby-tossing and hoping for a net. But this is her Dad, after all...maybe this'll be the visit that goes smoothly for once. He'll bring her home wired up on junk food and loaded with annoying toys, but he'll bring her home.)

Right?

My advice would be to pin down the visit in mediation. To make it an "official" visit with an official start time and end time. That would not be a binding court order, but it would definitely make dad think twice about pulling any stunts.
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
My advice would be to pin down the visit in mediation. To make it an "official" visit with an official start time and end time. That would not be a binding court order, but it would definitely make dad think twice about pulling any stunts.

A perfect answer!!!

Witty, I appreciate your desire to facilitate their relationship and also protect your child. I really think LdiJ's answer is The One. :)

Good luck in mediation -- remember, you do not *have* to agree to each item.
 

WittyUserName

Senior Member
Thanks!

I feel a little nervous but ready. And the visitation will likely be fine...although there may not be a pint of Ben & Jerry's left in the county by the time I get done worrying. ;)

Another quick question - if Dad and I can't come to an agreement in this (private) mediation, might a judge then order us to try again with a different mediator? We did choose someone from the Family Court's list of approved mediators, so that at least we could show we tried with a credentialed professional.

Thanks again for the encouragement, and for the information on this forum. Also, the veritable hours of entertainment I've gotten on this site....I have learned so much about people hanging out here I could write a book.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
I feel a little nervous but ready. And the visitation will likely be fine...although there may not be a pint of Ben & Jerry's left in the county by the time I get done worrying. ;)

Another quick question - if Dad and I can't come to an agreement in this (private) mediation, might a judge then order us to try again with a different mediator? We did choose someone from the Family Court's list of approved mediators, so that at least we could show we tried with a credentialed professional.

Thanks again for the encouragement, and for the information on this forum. Also, the veritable hours of entertainment I've gotten on this site....I have learned so much about people hanging out here I could write a book.

No, its not at all likely that a judge would order you to try mediation again with a different mediator. If you can't come to an agreement with this mediator, then its likely that the judge will decide.
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
No, its not at all likely that a judge would order you to try mediation again with a different mediator. If you can't come to an agreement with this mediator, then its likely that the judge will decide.

Ld's on a roll, and I second this one, too. :) ;)

Also, for clarification, if you agree on Points A, C, and D, but cannot agree on Point B: your mediator should write up an agreement on the agreed points to submit to the court for approval (generally, rubber-stamping). Then the Point B issue goes to court for the judge to decide.

Needless to say, it's often easier to find a way to agree on all points in mediation. But don't allow yourself to be pushed farther than you really can agree.
 

WittyUserName

Senior Member
Oh, that is good news...

Ld's on a roll, and I second this one, too. :) ;)

Also, for clarification, if you agree on Points A, C, and D, but cannot agree on Point B: your mediator should write up an agreement on the agreed points to submit to the court for approval (generally, rubber-stamping). Then the Point B issue goes to court for the judge to decide.

Needless to say, it's often easier to find a way to agree on all points in mediation. But don't allow yourself to be pushed farther than you really can agree.

Because we have a visitation schedule agreed upon; where we are stuck is custody. And possibly the support modification, which we haven't started discussing yet but could be a minefield.

But Yay! At least the visitation stuff is probably workable. One out of three is a start, I suppose.
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
Because we have a visitation schedule agreed upon; where we are stuck is custody. And possibly the support modification, which we haven't started discussing yet but could be a minefield.

But Yay! At least the visitation stuff is probably workable. One out of three is a start, I suppose.

I'm so glad to be able to help. :)

Good luck -- you'll do well, I'm sure. :)
 

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