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Ann1937

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? New York
I received a bill from NCO financial Systems saying they bought my long overdue account from Chase Providian Mastercard. It was supposedly one from 1990 to 1992 and with interest is now over $15,000. I am almost 70 and this has upset me terribly. I have never had a Chase Providian Mastercard. I did have to file bankruptcy which became final in April 1993 and I owed two credit card companies, but not Chase. I am in the process of getting a copy of my bankruptcy papers but a friend has hers and no account numbers are listed. The NCO papers do show an account number but I do not have any way of knowing what company it may have been. I think maybe Chase Providian may have bought out another company which I did owe when I filed for bankruptcy. I suppose my only recourse is to hire a lawyer I can't afford. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.
 


hillmillenia

Junior Member
I can only suggest...

I'm not a legal expert but when I filed for bankruptcy several years ago I would reference any bill collectors to my lawyer..assuming the lawyer who handled your case is still practicing, I would think that Chase would have been notified at the time and should not have sold the account. Good luck..
 

joannem58

Junior Member
same situation

I also received the letter from NCO and all of my debts had been discharged in 1990. I never had a Providian Chase Card. I am in New York City. I just sent them (NCO) a letter asking for the name of the originating company as the account number doesn't match any of my accts that were discharged. Once they send that info I am either going to send them a copy of my original bankruptcy notice with all of my accts listed or I will call the lawyer who oversaw my bankruptcy proceedure. I also believe there is a statute of limitations on the debt. I will let you know when I find out.
My guess is this is a way for credit card companies to intimidate us into paying up. They have another thing coming. Don't sweat it. Stay strong. :) :) Write to NCO like I did, return receipt and see what happens. Life's too short to worry about uncalled for BS
Stay in touch. ;)
 
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joannem58

Junior Member
more info

http://www.creditinsiders.com/sol

This is the web site listing the Statute of Limitations for each State. Also, in another thread inthis forum there is a sample letter you can use. I've copied it here. Use as you see fit. Good Luck
[Address]

[City state ZIP]
[Collector]

[Address]

[City State ZIP]

[Phone number]
[Date] Certified Mail No.: _____________

Re ; inquiry dated ____: your file # _____
Greetings:
Thank you for your recent inquiry. This is not a refusal to pay, but a notice that your claim is disputed.

The Rules Of Civil Procedure of my State of (State ) provide a Statute Of Limitations limiting the time frame for any legal collection activities.

Include the following underlined paragraphs for credit card accounts

Please be advised that under the TILA § 15 a credit card account is legally defined as an "open" account.

The Act is in Title I of the Consumer Credit Protection Act and is implemented by the Federal Reserve Board via Regulation Z (12 C.F.R. Part 226).

The Regulation has effect and force of federal law.

Open-end Credit Transactions:

Open-end credit includes bank and gas company credit cards, stores' revolving charge accounts, and cash- advance checking accounts.

Typical features:

Creditors reasonably expect the consumer to make repeated transactions.

Creditors may impose finance charges on the unpaid balance.

As the consumer pays the outstanding balance, the amount of credit is once again available to the consumer

Under my State of ________Code #__________
the subject account has a _________ year limit for filing any legal action for collection.

The starting date of this statute of limitations being the later of the date of last activity, or the date of first default with the ORIGINAL CREDITOR of the subject account.

Records indicate that this date on the subject account #___________ with (creditor name) is __ ___ ____.

This notification is formal notice to you that
any filing of such action by you, or your representitives or assigns, is therefore time-barred.

Under the FDCPA, any such action, or threat of such action is a violation of the law,and grounds for fines and civil sanctions.

807. False or misleading representations

A debt collector may not use any false, deceptive, or misleading representation or means in connection with the collection of any debt.

Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section:

(2) The false representation of-

(A) the character, amount, or legal status of any debt; or

(4) The representation or implication that nonpayment of any debt will result in the arrest or imprisonment of any person or the seizure, garnishment, attachment, or sale of any property or wages of any person unless such action is lawful and the debt collector or creditor intends to take such action.

(5) The threat to take any action that cannot legally be taken or that is not intended to be taken.

This notication to you is of applicable legal statutes,codes and laws.Other Federal and State laws may apply.

(include the next paragraph when appropriate)

Under the laws of my State,(statute # if available) continued collection activities, including reporting,verification or reinsertion of accounts. beyond their legal collection date to any consumer credit reporting agency, may be considered extortion and/or fraud and subject to criminal as well as civil prosecution.

Please note that proof of your receipt of this notice may be used by me or my legal representative in further action.

I also reserve the right to forward a copy of this letter,and any other pertinent material to the _____(CA lawyer's State) Bar Association.

Best regards,

[Subscriber]print or type name
 

Ann1937

Junior Member
Thankyou Joannem58

I appreciate your reply. I will send a letter to NCO on Monday. I have already sent one to the NY State Attorney General hoping they can crack down on these people. I can imagine how a person in their 80's would feel to get this letter. There is a site where many people have had problems with NCO sending them bills for Chase Credit cards they never had. ripoffreport.com. I also read where they check your credit report by your SS # (which they had) and if you have good credit, which I have, that they figure they can collect as you don't want your credit ruined. I hope someone stops these people!
 

joannem58

Junior Member
one more piece of advice

Ann,
From the link you posted on this forum to ripoffreport.com
I was able to get the following info:
Maybe there is some money in this for us!

"I have heard of this kind of stuff happening frequently years after a Bankruptcy has been discharged. Numerous companies buy old debt and attempt to collect on it. The debt they are trying to collect probably is an old debt that was discharge in your bankruptcy. As often as credit companies are sold to other larger companies you may indeed not know exactly who the debt came from.

Do make sure you verify who the original debt was with. If it is a debt that was discharged in your BK take all the paperwork to a lawyer as now you have grounds to sue the credit card company and the collector as it is a violation of federal law to attempt to collect on any debt that was discharged through bankruptcy.

This happened to a friend of mine and not only did he get a settlement that was more than the debt they were trying to collect the company also was fined quite heavily by the Federal Court. Good luck in your efforts." :) :D
 

joannem58

Junior Member
more info

What can you do if you believe a debt collector violated the law?
You have the right to sue a collector in a state or federal court within one year from the date the law was violated. If you win, you may recover money for the damages you suffered plus an additional amount up to $1,000. Court costs and attorney' s fees also can be recovered. A group of people also may sue a debt collector and recover money for damages up to $500,000, or one percent of the collector' s net worth, whichever is less.

Where can you report a debt collector for an alleged violation?
Report any problems you have with a debt collector to your state Attorney General' s office and the Federal Trade Commission. Many states have their own debt collection laws, and your Attorney General' s office can help you determine your rights.



The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop, and avoid them. To file a complaint or to get free information on consumer issues, visit www.ftc.gov or call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357); TTY: 1-866-653-4261. The FTC enters Internet, telemarketing, identity theft, and other fraud-related complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad.
 

Ladynred

Senior Member
. I also read where they check your credit report by your SS # (which they had) and if you have good credit, which I have, that they figure they can collect as you don't want your credit ruined. I hope someone stops these people!

First of all, on a debt THAT old there is NO WAY NCO can even TOUCH your credit, let alone ruin it. The legal reporting period on a debt that old expired many years ago. Negatives can only be legally reported to the bureaus for 7-1/2 years, after that its ILLEGAL for them to put them back on your reports. If they do, SUE THEM !!

It IS worth noting that last year the FTC slammed NCO with one of the largest fines ever awarded for NCO's illegal practices of re-aging ancient debts. So not only would they be doing it ILLEGALLY, they have already been ripped a new one by the FTC once. The last CA that thumbed its nose at the FTC's warnings and fines was SHUT DOWN, permanently, last year. It is VERY important that you file a complaint with the FTC and make sure you let them know that its NCO that you're dealing with. They ARE being watched by the FTC.

Lastly, attempting to collect on a discharged debt is a violation of FEDERAL bankruptcy law. Getting a copy of your BK case from the archives is the right step to take, although it still may not help because they change account numbers around.

Since the statute of limitations in NY is only 6 years, NO DEBT from 1990 or 1992 can be legally enforced, the SOL has EXPIRED several times over !

You need to send them a cease and desist letter. Tell them that regardless of whether or not you ever had such an account, the statute of limitations has long ago expired, the debt is time barred, and they are never to contact you about it again. In addition, I'd mention that you did file bankruptcy in 1992, and that any debt that you incurred pre-petition (before you filed BK), is completely uncollectible under the permanent injunction of your discharge.

Send the letter certified, RRR and keep copies of everything. I'll bet you they back off and slither back under their rock.
 

joannem58

Junior Member
Thanks for advice

NY State
Thanks for the pep talk.
I have been on this all day. I have filed complaints with Elliott Spitzer's office Attorney General, Department of Consumer Affairs, and the FTC. I have also composed a cease and decist letter to NOC asking for all of my information and to have it notarized and sent to me return receipt ,certified.
My guess is after the letter I wrote them, I won't be hearing anything I almost wish I would so I could sue their A_ _ _ s. I am enpowered! :)
I will keep you posted!
 

TigerD

Senior Member
Ladynred said:
F Negatives can only be legally reported to the bureaus for 7-1/2 years, after that its ILLEGAL for them to put them back on your reports. If they do, SUE THEM !!

There are, of course, exceptions. If you are applying for a loan of more than $150,000 or insurance of more than $150,000 the time limits are extended. They are also extended for pre-employment screens with salaries of more than $75,000.

DC
 

Ann1937

Junior Member
Thank you all

I very much appreciate the advice and forms. :) :) I would never have known what to do except hire a lawyer had it not been for this site. When I first received the letter I called the lawyer who handled my bankruptcy 12 years ago. She told me that they are only required to keep records for 7 years so they had nothing left that would help. The lawyer is now a Public Defender so I will have to find someone else if I need to. I received the Certified Card receipt which was signed on the 4th by an NCO representative. I have not heard anything from the Attorney General's office but did send to MO for copies of my bankruptcy papers. I will certainly file other reports if and when I get back the NCO information. (Or if I don't get anything from them in 30 days) I shudder when I think of an extremely elderly person, who has no computer, getting one of the letters from NCO. :mad: I also sent an e-mail to ASK ASA (In New York Daily News) but have not heard anything. Now all I can do is hurry up and WAIT but I feel so much better having read this site. Thanks so much.
 

Ladynred

Senior Member
Ann,
You really have very little to worry about for an debt that's almost 13 years old. Either way, bankruptcy or the expiration of the SOL, NCO can do NOTHING to you on this old debt. All they can do is poke and hope that you'll be scared enough to send them money. If they are attempting to collect on a discharged debt, they are violating FEDERAL law and you can nail their butts for it, but I doubt you'll have to go that far to get rid of them.

A cease and desist letter will be more than enough to send NCO packing on this zombie debt.

You are correct about the elderly and these predators. So many older folks are frightened by the threats and lies from collection agencies, enough that they fear for their homes needlessly or, God forbid, give up their medications to have money to pay the collection agency on some zombie debt.
 

joannem58

Junior Member
some advice from FTC

New York State

Hi,
I did receive a response to my complaint to the FTC. They sent me the following information, which may be of use to those of you who are interested: :D


Thank you for your correspondence regarding debt collection practices. The Federal Trade Commission enforces the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act ("FDCPA" or "Act"), which prohibits unfair, deceptive and abusive debt collection practices by collection agencies and other third-party debt collectors. It also gives you certain rights when you are being treated improperly by a debt collector. Although the FTC staff is not in a position to intervene on your behalf in resolving your problem, we would like to outline some of the provisions of the Act for you and explain how you can use it to avoid further distress. We note at the outset, however, that the Act generally does not cover either the collection of commercial debts or the collection activities of the party to whom you allegedly owe your debt (the creditor) so long as the creditor is collecting in its own name. The Act applies only to third-party debt collectors collecting consumer debts.

Congress enacted the FDCPA in 1977 in response to mounting evidence of the use of improper debt collection techniques in the marketplace. The Act prohibits several of these techniques, including, for example, disclosing consumers' debts to most third parties without the consumers' consent. It also forbids false threats to coerce payment (such as threats of suit or other actions when they probably will never occur) and any sort of oral harassment (such as threats of violence, profanity, and continuous calls) over the telephone. No calls may be made very early in the morning or late at night, calls to a consumer at work are restricted, and debt collectors may not add charges to the debt unless the consumer has agreed to them or they are permitted by state law. Finally, a debt collector may not sue a consumer outside the district (1) of the consumer's residence or (2) where the contract creating the debt was signed.

If you believe that you do not owe the debt, you may file a dispute with the debt collector. If you do so in writing within thirty days of the date the collector notifies you of this right, the Act requires the collector to stop all collection efforts until it provides you with written verification of the debt. The Act also specifies that the debt collector inform you of this requirement at the beginning of the collection process. If you were not so informed, the collector violated the law.

Instead of filing a dispute, you may choose to send them a letter demanding that the debt collector cease all further collection efforts. If you do so in writing, the Act requires that the collector comply with the demand. We suggest that you send the letter by certified mail, return receipt requested, and keep a copy for your records. Please note, however, that sending a cease communication letter does not prevent the debt collector or the creditor from filing suit against you. It does, however, prevent them from calling you and sending collection notices.

If you believe that the debt collector that is contacting you violated the law in this or any other way, you may additionally:

1) File a complaint with your state or local consumer protection office and/or the party to whom you originally owed the debt (the debt collector's client). If you file a complaint, describe the circumstances in detail and send copies of all written materials received from the collector. Any of these parties might take independent action against the collector.

2) File a private suit against the debt collector in any court for violations of the Act and, if you are successful, receive actual damages, attorney's fees, and additional damages up to $1,000.

Remember, however, that the Act does not function to erase a valid debt, even if a debt collector has violated the law in attempting to collect it from you. If you really owe the debt, you will still have to cope with the consequences of non-payment if you do not pay. Remember also that some collection techniques, while unpleasant or distasteful, are not law violations. For example, a debt collector may:

1) Contact third parties solely to determine where you are, so long as the collector does not disclose the existence of your debt.

2) Contact you at work if the debt collector has no reason to believe that your employer prohibits the contact (and you have not filed a cease-communication request).

3) Use a rude or angry tone on the telephone, if the overall communication with you cannot truly be characterized as abusive or harassing.

4) Threaten consequences of non-payment that are truthful. For example, debt collectors may threaten to sue if suit will, in fact, be the result of non-payment. They also may threaten to report your debt to a credit bureau if, in fact, they intend and are legally able to do so. It is to your advantage to know the probable result of withholding payment, if it is accurate.

5) Accept or solicit a post-dated check, if the collector does not deposit it before the date on the check.

6) Refuse to accept a partial payment for a debt (even if you had such an arrangement with the creditor). If there is more than one debt, the collector must credit the account that you designate.

If you owe the debt, we suggest that, before you resort to some of the stronger measures outlined above, you try to work out any payment difficulties, first with the debt collector and next with your creditor. Finally, if you decide to proceed further, or if you think that the collector or creditor is about to take legal action against you, be sure to contact your local legal aid office or an attorney for advice.

Like the FDCPA provisions discussed above, you may also find certain Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) provisions helpful if you believe that a debt collector is providing inaccurate information about you to a credit bureau. To fully protect your rights under the FCRA, we strongly recommend that you dispute the credit report item in writing to both the credit bureau and the debt collector. When you dispute the item to the credit bureau, the FCRA requires that the credit bureau pass your dispute to the debt collector, along with all relevant information you provided. The debt collector must investigate the dispute (which includes a review of the information you provided) and report what it found to the credit bureau within thirty days after you first disputed the item to the credit bureau.

During this same period, the credit bureau must also review the information you provided. If the debt collector reports that the credit report item is incorrect and should be deleted, or fails to report to the credit bureau at all within the thirty-day period, the credit bureau must delete the item from its files. If the debt collector reports that the item is inaccurate and should be changed to a less delinquent status (e.g., 30 days late, rather than 120 days late), but not deleted, the credit bureau must make that change in its files.

We hope that this information has been helpful to you. Please be assured that we are always interested in reports of law violations. If we cannot act immediately to remedy them, we will retain whatever you have provided for possible use in future enforcement actions. The efficacy of our FDCPA enforcement program is largely dependent upon information we receive from individuals like you. Thank you for writing.



Sincerely yours,


Consumer Response Center
 

Ann1937

Junior Member
Thanks for copy of letter from FTC

New York State

Today I also received that same e-mail from the FTC. At least they are aware of what NCO Financial Systems is doing. I hope everyone who received the letters demanding money for accounts they never had, with Chase Providian or any other company, will file complaints with the FTC. It is unbelievable that they are being so crooked when they have already been fined $1.5 million by the FTC in 2004. This is from the FTC site. (More on the site)

NCO Group to Pay Largest FCRA Civil Penalty to Date

One of the nation’s largest debt-collection firms will pay $1.5 million to settle Federal Trade Commission charges that it violated the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) by reporting inaccurate information about consumer accounts to credit bureaus. The civil penalty against Pennsylvania-based NCO Group, Inc. is the largest civil penalty ever obtained in a FCRA case.
 

TigerD

Senior Member
Ann1937 said:
NCO Group to Pay Largest FCRA Civil Penalty to Date

One of the nation’s largest debt-collection firms will pay $1.5 million to settle Federal Trade Commission charges that it violated the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) by reporting inaccurate information about consumer accounts to credit bureaus. The civil penalty against Pennsylvania-based NCO Group, Inc. is the largest civil penalty ever obtained in a FCRA case.

A couple of questions and answers:
1. Will it change the company's behavior?
a. No. They made far more than that during the time in question

2. Did it benefit the people?
b. No, fine goes to FTC and federal gov.

3. Result?
c. Business as usual.

DC
 

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