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What if you know somebody committed bankruptcy fraud?

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acemagoo61 said:
Felony, felony, felony!!! At one time it was perfectly legal to buy cocaine at Sears and Roebuck and committing adultery was a felony.

Yeah I know the law is the law, doesn't mean we have to actively support it. N-A-Z-I doctrine was law.

Ted Turner seems to be able to keep filing bankruptcy, doesn't seem to hurt his life style (is that ok because he is privileged?).

Higher interest rates, wasn't it George W. who was involved in the S & L scandal, I know it was one of them, George, Jed, Jethro, whatever (I voted for both Georges, this is an observation, not a political view). Or how about the congressional check writing scandal. How about financial institutions making profits off of American's income sending Information Technology jobs overseas based on a claim that it is cheaper. It is not cheaper or better labor, it does allow a lot more room for graft and kickbacks and ten years down the line these same companies are going to be looking for tax relief because their systems are total FUBAR because they were "saving money". On top of that, sending these jobs overseas increased loan defaults, decreases tax base, who's the criminal? Come on, the country is bankrupt and they keep charging and charging and those in control have the best medical and retirement plans in the country and have total immunity from their mistakes.

Legally all my concerns in bankruptcy are covered, but I still feel that the bankruptcy laws favors those who are rich and get into trouble over those who are poor and are in most need of relief.

300k in real estate exempt, but 2k in a car. Someone with a 300k house can then turn around and sell it. Get a 200k house and have a 100k for cars, boats, etc.

Who's causing higher interest rates?

I am not on his side, but, how many police officers could ever afford 300k for a house, and on top of that, have it paid for.

It really doesn't sound like he held back a lot, I doubt the boat was a yacht and while guns do hold about 50% of their retail value, just how many did he have that weren't protected assets already?

If by telling the trustee she can save herself from these loans, she probably has a good reason to do so, if not, being vindictive isn't going to help. Bad Karma begets bad Karma. Since she is not filing bankruptcy, makes 1/3 of his income and is stuck with his bills, I am guessing that she don't want a bankruptcy on her credit. Why not? She married him, let him rack up debt on joint accounts, and made a big financial mistake. She doesn't want bankruptcy on her record, even for the reason her ex was a jerk and it wasn't really her fault. A lot of my debt has to do with my ex, only I am legally totally responsible for it, she is free and clear from that aspect. It doesn't mean her life is peachy keen, it isn't, she is still worse off them me.

Bill Gates made a fortune developing software that kept having to be replaced and failed. It was Americans who paid for this buggy, quickly obsolete software. What did Bill do, did he give people new software to replace the buggy stuff. No, he put out a new release, charged for it and now sends jobs and bends over backwards for India.

As far as higher interest rates, inflation plays a whole lot more in interest rates then bankruptcy. Does anyone remember the 70 & 80's? Who profited from that?

The truly wealthy must laugh at us, instead of sticking together and changing the law, we argue over nickel and dimes while they keep stuffing the vaults with cash. We need more lenient bankruptcy laws, not more stringent. Banks must take the responsibility for their gambling for profits. They are the first to ask tax payers to bail them out should they make a mistake. As long as we keep pointing to each other as the problem, the problem will continue, the little guy will always be at risk, very few of us have any control over the economy, companies sending jobs overseas, corporate and government downsizing. You can bust your butt for 20 years, pay your bills, then one morning go to work and watch airplanes crash into buildings and realize that the action will put you out of work.

Those being paid to protect us from such threats dropped the ball. They still got paid, still got their medical and retirement.

You lose everything because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. We rushed to aid those hurt by the tsunami as well as those who were directly effected by 9/11. But those who were financially hurt through jobs lost, well they had everything taken from them.

Wow, you really work overtime to try to rationalize dishonesty, don't you?

Do you walk into stores and shoplift? After all those big evil stores are making lots of money and are screwing over the little guy, right?

I can't even begin to straighten out your "facts." Apparently you can't remember the 80s. Interest rates weren't high in the 80s. You're thinking of the 70's. Of course it's so convenient to try to push the inflation problem back into the 1980s because you can then blame that evil Republican President Ronald Reagan.

And sure those interest rates were just a big conspiracy for the big corporations to make money. They about 1980 had a change of heart about making money and started lowering interest rates. Yeah, right.

Don't you mean Donald Trump filed bankruptcy not Ted Turner? And George W. wasn't involved in the S & L scandal. But Neil was, and what the heck, since they're family, they're all guilty right? McCarthy would be proud of your guilt by association smear tactics.

I'm so glad you can justify your dishonesty. I just wouldn't suggest using this rationalization if you ever get caught.
 


acemagoo61

Junior Member
The devil is in the details

tlc123 said:
NO, thank goodness I DON'T have children with this loser! I wanted one....he decided he "didn't want anymore" AFTER we married because he said "he would never have anything."
I had PERFECT credit going into this and at this point...I think I still do.....two months ago my beacon score was 777. However, I tried to get a consolidation loan so I could handle this debt alone and not have to "bother" him and they turned me down due to HIS bankruptcy. He had NO credit! I worked diligently for 4 years to build his credit back and DID! He lost it again in 10 months after I left! He has assets he can sell to satisfy his part of our marital debt...but refuses. I am left with NO CHOICE but to fight dirty. I already work two jobs to keep my head above water...and NO, I don't want a bankruptcy on my credit and I don't want to go down with him just because I loved him at one time. He obviously doesn't care about me.
The devil is in the details. Sorry for the tangent. Just seen some people go out of their way to cause others a headache. Unfortunately even if you turn him in, they seize and sell the assets, I believe they will distribute the assets evenly, not just pay off the loans he has as joint accounts with you. If the debt you refer to was only in your name for his behalf, you are not going to even get a portion of the debt paid. Do you live in the same city/town as him? You have a lot better idea then I what he is capable of, personally I wouldn’t want a dirty cop with a vendetta against me. Can you provide proof to trace the boat and guns? Can the proof be submitted anonymously? Is he capable of setting you up? Even if you get proven innocent on a criminal charge you have to pay a lawyer and you get an arrest record, may have to post bail. You can call this extreme paranoia, but a dirty cop is a scary thing. You will definitely be doing the rest of us a favor, but what are the possible consequences to you?
 

Post BK Blues

Junior Member
Have you seen his BK papers?

tlc123 said:
North Carolina

I know someone that failed to list all of their assets on their Chapter 13 filing. They failed to list items that have value and could be sold to alleviate some of their debt. Where and how can you report them?


Not taking anyone's side here, but this guy filed a chapter 13, not a 7. Unless the OP has actually SEEN the BK petition (it's public records) there's no way of knowing for sure if the boat was omitted from the list of assets.

Remember, a 13 is not like a 7 and many 13 filers get to keep most if not all their assets while in the plan and after discharge.

Just my $.02's worth.
 

tlc123

Junior Member
Yes...I have a complete copy of the whole bankruptcy....NO BOAT!
I also have confirmation of ownership through two different agencies, Wildlife AND DMV
 

Post BK Blues

Junior Member
DMV Records

tlc123 said:
Yes...I have a complete copy of the whole bankruptcy....NO BOAT!
I also have confirmation of ownership through two different agencies, Wildlife AND DMV

Amazing that the trustee didn't find the boat. At my 341 meeting I saw a chapter 7 filer before me get in a lot of trouble because he failed to list a second car and the trustee had found it immediately thru a routine DMV check. The trustee said he was hoping the filer was bringing him an amended petition. Nice of him to give the filer another chance to be honest! The filer said he had 'forgotten' about this car. Yeah right!
 
Post BK Blues said:
Not taking anyone's side here, but this guy filed a chapter 13, not a 7. Unless the OP has actually SEEN the BK petition (it's public records) there's no way of knowing for sure if the boat was omitted from the list of assets.

Remember, a 13 is not like a 7 and many 13 filers get to keep most if not all their assets while in the plan and after discharge.

Just my $.02's worth.

Well the OP said it wasn't listed. I was working off that assumption. But it doesn't matter if it's a 13 or a 7, the assets have to be listed. Even in a 7, the trustee can order assets sold to pay creditors.
 
Post BK Blues said:
Amazing that the trustee didn't find the boat. At my 341 meeting I saw a chapter 7 filer before me get in a lot of trouble because he failed to list a second car and the trustee had found it immediately thru a routine DMV check. The trustee said he was hoping the filer was bringing him an amended petition. Nice of him to give the filer another chance to be honest! The filer said he had 'forgotten' about this car. Yeah right!

Well, I don't think you can do a DMV check for a boat.

I've seen people take property out of their name for a BK and then have it put back into their name after the BK was over. That's something that could be found out with minimal research, but it's rare that a Trustee will even do that minimal research.
 

tlc123

Junior Member
The boat TRAILER is registered through the DMV. I also checked county tax records....it isn't listed there either. I searched other family member names as well, the boat HAS NOT been registered in anyone else's name. Do you think maybe he's lying to the tax collector too?
 

acemagoo61

Junior Member
?

tlc123 said:
The boat TRAILER is registered through the DMV. I also checked county tax records....it isn't listed there either. I searched other family member names as well, the boat HAS NOT been registered in anyone else's name. Do you think maybe he's lying to the tax collector too?

I have lived in four states, while they had different ways of collecting taxes and registering vehicles (and watercraft), the DMV either reported the taxable item to the town and/or state or you could not even register the vehicle without paying the property (or excise, what ever name they give it) taxes first. Of course in all cases if you don't register the vehicle/watercraft, it doesn't come to the attention of the tax collector. But you said the trailer, not the boat.

Has the boat ever been registered in his name? How old is the boat? Type and length of boat?
 

tlc123

Junior Member
He (we) bought it in May 2002. He (WE) paid $11,000 for the boat brand new and probably put $2000 worth of extras on it. I have checked around and the approximate worth of it is $6500 now. It is a G3, 18' center console boat....NOT a YACHT...but it has value. $6500 would ALMOST settle his part of our debt. Yeah, we're not talking hundreds of thousands of dollars here but legally (according to NC law), the boat is HALF mine anyway because it was acquired while we were married and living together. He can't sell it now because you can't do a property transfer while you are in bankruptcy. Bottom line, he lied so he could keep the boat. I haven't asked for equity in the house or alimony...all I asked for was his part of the financial debt, which yes, IS credit card debt. Most men would be happy with that...I wasn't out to "clean house", just recoup his part of what was spent to get the things that he ended up keeping.
 

Gracie3787

Senior Member
You Can Be Charged W/felony!

Gracie3787 said:
You need to report the fraud to the trustee. Give them all documentation proving the fraud.

I don't have the exact statute #, but 18 U.S.C. 152 requires anyone who has knowledge of another person's bankruptcy fraud and does not report it may face felony charges themselves.

It doesn't matter whether it is revenge or not, the fact is that you have knowledge so now you have a legal duty to report it, and let the trustee, and US attorney decide.

Apparently, bankruptcy fraud is quite common among police officers. I know of a police officer who committed alot of bankruptcy fraud, was reported and is now facing indictment. Scary that these "upholders and enforcers of the law" are breaking the laws themselves, isn't it? :eek:

U.S. Code Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 1 - 4:

Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commision of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, CONCEALS AND DOES NOT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE MAKE KNOWN THE SAME to some Judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, SHALL BE FINED UNDER THIS TITLE OR IMPRISONED NOT MORE THAN THREE YEARS, OR BOTH.

Since you are still legally married to him, it would be very easy for HIM to claim that you were in on the fraud with him. So be very careful, I know that if it were me, I'd report to the trustee immediatly.
 

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