What is my obligation?

[escape2paradise]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? WA

The X was ordered to have supervised visits at his parents home. Since X can't be alone with DD, I am ordered to provide transportation. The visits are the 2nd and 4th weekend and are daytime only visits. Therefore during each of his weekends I am required to drive an approximate 1 hr roundtrip to drop off and then again to pick up, on both Saturday and Sunday.

My question is do I have to drive each weekto the dropoff at Grandma's if I have reason to believe the X won't be there? What I'm wondering is how I can avoid driving DD there only to find X isn't going to show that day and then have to do the same thing the next day and see if he shows. I am on good terms with X's mom, so I could ask her what his plans are. I am sure if he plans on utilizing his visitation that he will run it by his mom and make sure she is available etc...If I confirm with his mom that he has not made any plans for his weekend with her, can I safely assume he is not going to exercise and therefore avoid the trip to the drop off?

 

[wileybunch]

I really do not think you can assume anything without taking a risk of being in contempt -- his mom certainly cannot truly speak for him -- but what you can do is see if Dad will agree to a stipulation and order that he has to let you know by email or some other method that you two agree on 48 hours (or some other number) in advance if he's going to exercise either or both of his weekend visits.

 

[penelope10]

I believe that legally you may still have to drive there whether he's there or not. Seems that GM would have to be there when you drop the kiddos off. And it seems that you like GM and have a good relationship with her. So at least the kiddos will be in the company of someone who cares about them even if Dad isn't.

Keep a calendar of each and every date that he so chooses not to exercise visitation should you return to court. Then you can ask for a 48 hour notice if you so desire or other types of modification you may deem necessary.

 

[escape2paradise]

I really do not think you can assume anything without taking a risk of being in contempt -- his mom certainly cannot truly speak for him -- but what you can do is see if Dad will agree to a stipulation and order that he has to let you know by email or some other method that you two agree on 48 hours (or some other number) in advance if he's going to exercise either or both of his weekend visits.

I asked my attorney about this and he said that if I ask for this now, before dad even has a chance to show whether he will utilize the visitation, then I will look over controlling and it likely wouldn't be granted from the get go anyway. He said that this is one of those things I would have to return to court and show a pattern of dad's failure to utilize visitation. Why I have to wait for the pattern is frustrating as dad already exhibited this behavior of inconsistency before and the GAL did cover that in her report.

 

[escape2paradise]

Does it make any difference if the wording of the order states:

These visits shall occur on the second and fourth weekends of the month so long as there is available supervision.

In other words if the supervisor herself is telling me that she has not been informed and is not going to be available as she's had no notice, can I then safely not show?

I can see the X might try to get me on contempt for this, but if I have an email from the supervisor telling me the visit is not going to happen won't that show the court that I was not willfully disobeying the order? That I reasonably believed that he was not going to utilize the visit.

I'm cringing at the thought of taking DD there time after time only to not have him show. She has been through enough with her dad. Since the decision two months ago, he has only spoken to her two times. He doesn't answer or return her calls. She is feeling enough rejection and punishment as it is. I don't want to rub salt into her wounds!

 

[penelope10]

Does it make any difference if the wording of the order states:

These visits shall occur on the second and fourth weekends of the month so long as there is available supervision.

In other words if the supervisor herself is telling me that she has not been informed and is not going to be available as she's had no notice, can I then safely not show?

I can see the X might try to get me on contempt for this, but if I have an email from the supervisor telling me the visit is not going to happen won't that show the court that I was not willfully disobeying the order? That I reasonably believed that he was not going to utilize the visit.

I'm cringing at the thought of taking DD there time after time only to not have him show. She has been through enough with her dad. Since the decision two months ago, he has only spoken to her two times. He doesn't answer or return her calls. She is feeling enough rejection and punishment as it is. I don't want to rub salt into her wounds!

I think this is a bit of a slippery slope to go down. I'll let someone else advise you as to whether it's acceptable not to do the drop off it Dad isn't there. (IMO you'll still need to do the drop off)....It is strange that GM, as the supervisor, has to be informed when a visit is upcoming. It happens on the 2nd and 4th weekend of every month. Odd that anyone should have to notify her at all. On the 2nd and 4th of every weekend she should plan on being home.

What I'd think I would still do is show up at the time I was supposed to. (This order has only been in effect for 2 months). If GM is not there, you'll need to find out when she's going to be there. You don't have to leave the kiddo there alone without GM being there, however, I don't think the court is going to like it if you cut and run immediately if she's not.

And if Dad isn't there and GM is, I'd drop the kiddo off for the appointed visit. (Don't make a big deal of this when the kiddo is around). Then document, document, document. (Both as to GM not being there as she should or Dad not being there)


Sorry, wish I could be of more help.

 

[escape2paradise]

I think this is a bit of a slippery slope to go down. I'll let someone else advise you as to whether it's acceptable not to do the drop off it Dad isn't there. (IMO you'll still need to do the drop off)....It is strange that GM, as the supervisor, has to be informed when a visit is upcoming. It happens on the 2nd and 4th weekend of every month. Odd that anyone should have to notify her at all. On the 2nd and 4th of every weekend she should plan on being home.

What I'd think I would still do is show up at the time I was supposed to. (This order has only been in effect for 2 months). If GM is not there, you'll need to find out when she's going to be there. You don't have to leave the kiddo there alone without GM being there, however, I don't think the court is going to like it if you cut and run immediately if she's not.

And if Dad isn't there and GM is, I'd drop the kiddo off for the appointed visit. (Don't make a big deal of this when the kiddo is around). Then document, document, document. (Both as to GM not being there as she should or Dad not being there)


Sorry, wish I could be of more help.

Grandma is not court ordered to supervise, the court realizes that X's mom is busy. She has two homes, one on this side of the state and one on the other. Thus the order reads if GM is available. If she is not then the visit is not to occur.

 

[penelope10]

Grandma is not court ordered to supervise, the court realizes that X's mom is busy. She has two homes, one on this side of the state and one on the other. Thus the order reads if GM is available. If she is not then the visit is not to occur.

Sorry, I misunderstood. As to Dad not being there my advice still stands. Show up as you are supposed to. If GM is there drop the kiddo off. If she's not there then it sounds like you are free to leave.

The only person, I believe, that could authorize you not to do the drop off would be Dad. (Since it's his supervised visitation). And it sounds like he's none too cooperative. That's why I would keep a calendar for future reference.

 

[wileybunch]

I asked my attorney about this and he said that if I ask for this now, before dad even has a chance to show whether he will utilize the visitation, then I will look over controlling and it likely wouldn't be granted from the get go anyway. He said that this is one of those things I would have to return to court and show a pattern of dad's failure to utilize visitation. Why I have to wait for the pattern is frustrating as dad already exhibited this behavior of inconsistency before and the GAL did cover that in her report.

I think you misunderstood, this isn't about returning to court to ask the judge for something. A stipulation and order is an agreement the parties make and then file with the court to have that become an order.

 

[escape2paradise]

Sorry, I misunderstood. As to Dad not being there my advice still stands. Show up as you are supposed to. If GM is there drop the kiddo off. If she's not there then it sounds like you are free to leave.

The only person, I believe, that could authorize you not to do the drop off would be Dad. (Since it's his supervised visitation). And it sounds like he's none too cooperative. That's why I would keep a calendar for future reference.

I don't have a problem at all leaving DD with GM. She visits X's parents and siblings etc... all the time without X's presence. DD is almost 15 so she knows Dad is supposed to come and that she isn't just going to GM's. That is why I was hoping to find a way to get around the repeated unnecessary trips and sparing her feelings.

 

[escape2paradise]

I think you misunderstood, this isn't about returning to court to ask the judge for something. A stipulation and order is an agreement the parties make and then file with the court to have that become an order.

I would love for that, but dad isn't going to do anything to make my life easier and considering DD's feelings is not something he capable of. He is mentally ill and according to DD is plotting my demise as he has told her over and over again. I'm not dealing with anything close to normal here.

 

[penelope10]

I don't have a problem at all leaving DD with GM. She visits X's parents and siblings etc... all the time without X's presence. DD is almost 15 so she knows Dad is supposed to come and that she isn't just going to GM's. That is why I was hoping to find a way to get around the repeated unnecessary trips and sparing her feelings.

Here's the sad thing about situations like this. Often we can't protect our children and spare their feelings. You have a court order and you must follow the order. It's hard not to feel upset or show upset when feels their child is hurting. Lil Bit is only 2 years younger than your child. Oz isn't always the best about exercising his visitation. What helps a bit, I think, is that I don't dwell on this around her. (In other words, show my disappointment for her).

Wish I could give you better words of wisdom.

 

[escape2paradise]

Here's the sad thing about situations like this. Often we can't protect our children and spare their feelings. You have a court order and you must follow the order. It's hard not to feel upset or show upset when feels their child is hurting. Lil Bit is only 2 years younger than your child. Oz isn't always the best about exercising his visitation. What helps a bit, I think, is that I don't dwell on this around her. (In other words, show my disappointment for her).

Wish I could give you better words of wisdom.

Thanks, I get what you are saying. It is what I have been doing DD's entire life. It's just a little harder to have to go through the hour long ritual twice a weekend and watch her be so sad. She has had to come to grips with a lot about her dad these last two years. She does finally see him for what he is and understands that a lot may be due to his mental problems. But of course, she still has the fantasy of the kind of relationship she would like to have with dad and that I am sure is very difficult to give up.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Does you DD stay overnight for weekend? Or are you making this trip twice, EOW?

I'm thinking how GM can make it easier for your daughter. They can have a planned outing if GM knows that doofus isn't going to show up. You can plan your time accordingly.

 

[escape2paradise]

Does you DD stay overnight for weekend? Or are you making this trip twice, EOW?

I'm thinking how GM can make it easier for your daughter. They can have a planned outing if GM knows that doofus isn't going to show up. You can plan your time accordingly.

We haven't even started the visitation yet. It is for daytime only though I'm not opposeds to DD staying as long as Dad is not there overnight. The order is being presented on 8/27. The attorney said I don't have to legally allow visitation until then, however, I was not opposed to starting it before the order was signed. The attorney advised that if X wanted to start it was up to me and up to X to let me know. I haven't heard anything from him and he has told DD that he doesn't intend to utilize the visitation and then he has told her he might. My feeling is that he will occasionally. Thus the question about the need to drive even when I know he won't be there.

I'm sure GM will take DD on some of those weekends, others she won't be around. She usually takes DD on Tuesday nights even during school. When she takes her for the weekend it is usually over to their other home 4 hrs away. GM and GP are real socialites, country club, fancy wedding, charity events, vacation after vacation etc... Being the supervisor on weekends is going to be tough for GM. There will many times she isn't available. X brought this up to the judge repeatedly, so all are aware of the situation. There just really wasn't a better option without X having to use a facility, which none of us wanted.