wheelchair blind man civil rights when denied entry to jail for ministry

[Mahat]

What is the name of your state? Calif

I am curious and glad nobody knows my identity on the forum. A blind man in a wheelchair has not been allowed to join the chaplaincy I am part of since he could be hurt. There was an 80 year old woman who fell recently inside and is upset since she will probably be denied back inside. I am not on staff, I am only a volunteer that was told this in confidence by the chaplaincy staff. And I am just wondering if this man and his church actually have a case that his "civil rights were violated" as I heard?

PS: We go in as a bible study for the kids, as the kids are allowed one hour per week of religious time.

 

[Ohiogal]

You say this is kids but if they are in jail then that means they have committed a crime. It is not discrimination nor a violation of civil rights to prohibit individuals from having entrance to a jail or other correctional facility.

 

[Mahat]

You say this is kids but if they are in jail then that means they have committed a crime. It is not discrimination nor a violation of civil rights to prohibit individuals from having entrance to a jail or other correctional facility.

Yes, indeed. Now you know why I got kicked off a jury panel for a murder case the minute I started talking about how I go into jail once a week to "share the Gospel with the kids". The Prosecutor got me dismissed immediately since I do see them as kids, yes, even the one that murdered his own family member.

It is good to know that, that the man & his church saying his civil rights have been violated, can most lkely do nothing in court to the Chaplaincy denying him volunteering assignments. It is hard enough as it is for the jail to let in able bodied younger people; the staff has to watch out for our safety, it is more work for them. They honestly would not probably permit if it were not for the requirement in the law of one hour of religious instruction per week.

 

[ellencee]

What is the name of your state? Calif

I am curious and glad nobody knows my identity on the forum. A blind man in a wheelchair has not been allowed to join the chaplaincy I am part of since he could be hurt. There was an 80 year old woman who fell recently inside and is upset since she will probably be denied back inside. I am not on staff, I am only a volunteer that was told this in confidence by the chaplaincy staff. And I am just wondering if this man and his church actually have a case that his "civil rights were violated" as I heard?

PS: We go in as a bible study for the kids, as the kids are allowed one hour per week of religious time.

You should refrain from the sharing the gospel until you learn the whole truth of the teachings of Jesus. I have a feeling you do this for yourself and your own glory, which is blasphemy and according to Jesus, 'Woe be unto false teachers for everlasting condemnation is theirs'.

You should recall the teaching that if a man takes you to court (sues you) for your shirt, give him your coat as well. So if the jail says 'not this person', you should remove any person that is in the least bit questionably appropriate for jail ministry and it should never enter your mind to seek legal recourse or to have it your way.

Jails have the right and the duty to decide who comes in and for what purpose. Jails have no duty to allow entry by persons who create a liability for the jail. Jails have the duty to deny access to persons who are easily manipulated by the inmates, persons who may be targeted for mistreatment by the inmates, or those unable to remove themselves from harms way. Elderly women who fall are a risk and a liability to the jail should be denied entry. Blind persons in wheelchairs are a risk and a liability to the jail and should be denied entry.

The teaching of Jesus to render unto Caesar all that is Caesar's applies to your posted situation. You are commanded by the Lord you purport to serve to follow the rules and laws of the government and to not mix or compare Caesar (government and laws) to spiritual matters.

You may want to read chapter and verse on having a plank in your eyes, too.

Oh, and, before you say it--Yes; I have been involved in jail ministry for women. My brother-in-law is and has been involved in jail ministry for over twenty years. And, yes, we have a man who has never walked and is in a wheelchair who is and has been involved in jail ministry for about 15 years and sometimes, he is turned away when situations at the jail are considered not appropriate for his involvement. Not once have I seen him do anything but thank the staff for looking out for his interest. Heck, we've all gotten up early dressed and gone to the jail to be turned away at the door because the decision had been made to not allow 'outsiders' in on that particular day.

Now, we'll both sit back and wait for the lost to criticize us for believing in God and Jesus because this site is filled with non-believers.

EC

 

[CdwJava]

Now, we'll both sit back and wait for the lost to criticize us for believing in God and Jesus because this site is filled with non-believers.

You may be disappointed while you wait. I doubt anyone will really care about your faith ... it's rarely been an issue for me here. And this particular thread is not likely to invoke a great deal of interest in most the regulars, anyway.

- Carl

 

[BelizeBreeze]

I was always jealous of the Hindu faith.

At lease when they lose faith they have a cow to butcher and steak on the table

 

[ellencee]

You may be disappointed while you wait. I doubt anyone will really care about your faith ... it's rarely been an issue for me here. And this particular thread is not likely to invoke a great deal of interest in most the regulars, anyway.

- Carl

Thank you, Carl. I did not realize my post had to be an issue for anyone or evoke interest from most of the regulars. Now, I know better.

EC

 

[moburkes]

Thank you, Carl. I did not realize my post had to be an issue for anyone or evoke interest from most of the regulars. Now, I know better.

EC

Funny.

 

[Mahat]

Ellencee,

I do not any make decisions on who enters the jail. I am not on staff. I , myself, am not being sued, nor involved in any lawsuit.

The blind wheelchair-bound man was told NO by the staff. He is angry about that. His church is angry about that. The lawsuit is being threatened by the blind wheelchair-bound man and his church. He and them are the ones who do not respect the decision of NO ENTRY like your man does, like you and yours do. I have absolutely nothing to do with this potential lawsuit! Nothing!

I sought an opinon since somebody on staff confided in me and I was worried about her and the other staff being sued. The jail would not be sued. It would be the Chaplaincy Staff.

I agree with you that jails have a right who comes in and who does not. The chaplaincy staff though decides which volunteers come in to the jail from their ministry. I personally think it was poor judgement for them to let in the 80 year old frail woman, but as I said before, I do not have any involvement with decisions on who gets to go into jail.

I have absolutely no idea what you are going on about since your post shows you clearly are off the map here responding to my post. Mercy me!

Please consider this thread dead, as I am wanting to respect this forum for what it is intended, legal advice and I got it. Thx.

Thank you to the person who responded right after me and helped put my worries at ease.
I am grateful for the opinion I got here. And my for my other thread as well, from last year.

I won't be commenting in here again unless the LEGAL subject of my opening post has more responses, which I highly doubt. See ya.

PS: Ellencee, I tried to be clear, which is why things are bolded. I am not trying to be disrespectful, and I hope you know I am on your side. And by the way, I only told the jury staff about my involvement with the Chaplaincy since they demanded to know if I had (along with the other jury members) "ever had or ever went into jail". I then was required by law to tell them I go into jails. I was ASKED WHY which is why I explained what I do there. If the question was not asked, it would have never been volunteered by me. It was required by law for me to tell the truth, which is what I did. To God be the glory. It is not brought up by me very often as it is a privledge to do this and not revelent to most people outside the faith.

 

[stealth2]

Now, we'll both sit back and wait for the lost to criticize us for believing in God and Jesus because this site is filled with non-believers.

EC

That's rather presumptuous.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Please don't mix apples and oranges

California Rules of Court establishes the criteria for court access in CRC rule 1.100, this is re access, that does not apply to visitation of incarcerated populations, those fall under an entire different section of law and has nothing to do administratively with CIVIL RIGHTS issues for persons with disabilities per se.

The reason the blind man and the frail woman are being excluded from this ministry is both for their own safety and to not present the inmates with any provocation.

Think of it in terms of Providence rather than denial of access.

 

[Mahat]

California Rules of Court establishes the criteria for court access in CRC rule 1.100, this is re access, that does not apply to visitation of incarcerated populations, those fall under an entire different section of law and has nothing to do administratively with CIVIL RIGHTS issues for persons with disabilities per se.

The reason the blind man and the frail woman are being excluded from this ministry is both for their own safety and to not present the inmates with any provocation.

Think of it in terms of Providence rather than denial of access.

I wish the man and his church thought that way too. And I also hope the frail woman sees it that way if the jail tells the chaplaincy "do not allow her in here ever again!' which I think is 90% likely to happen.