When should spousal support be pursued

[midad8]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MI

My wife and I are trying our best to divorce amicably. We have forgo spousal support and just do child support. All assets has been split 50/50 or to our satisfaction. I make about $70k and she makes $110, so she makes over 50% more. Our thought was that I make enough to live comfortably, but I always wonder if I should pursue spousal support. Our divorce is not finalized so that is still an option. However, our case has been "uncontested" thusfar where her attorney (minimal cost to my wife through a legal plan) files all the paperwork. If I were to pursue spousal support, surely it will become contested and the attorney fees will starting increasing dramatically.

My question is... how big a difference in income should there be before spousal support should be pursued? If I should pursue it in my case, how much and for how long?

Appreciate some advice. Thanks.

 

[justalayman]

apparently Michigan has no real rules in determining spousal support so you would have to argue your need for spousal support. Why do you believe spousal support might be appropriate?

here is what the law says about alimony:

(1) Upon entry of a judgment of divorce or separate maintenance, if the estate and effects awarded to either party are insufficient for the suitable support and maintenance of either party and any children of the marriage who are committed to the care and custody of either party, the court may also award to either party the part of the real and personal estate of either party and spousal support out of the real and personal estate, to be paid to either party in gross or otherwise as the court considers just and reasonable, after considering the ability of either party to pay and the character and situation of the parties, and all the other circumstances of the case.

there are apparently some non-binding guidelines floating around but I haven't found them yet.

Here are what is considered to be factors in deciding whether alimony is applicable and how much and for how long:
determination are:

Length of the Marriage
The Parties’ Ages
Each Party’s Health
The Parties’ Needs
Ability to Work
Ability to Pay
Source and Amount of Property Awarded
Possibility of Improving a Party’s Income-Earning Capacity
Prior Standard of Living
The Parties’ Contribution to the Marital Estate
General Principles of Equity (or “Fairness&#8221
Significant Issues of Fault

 

[mistoffolees]

How long were you married? In many states, a very rough rule of thumb is 1/3 to 1/4 the length of the marriage.

As for the amount, a lot depends on living expenses, so it's impossible to give a simple answer. At the simplest level, it might start out at a level to equalize incomes (keep in mind that alimony is taxable to the recipient and deductible to the payer) - which in your case would be about $1,600 per month - and then decline from there. However, a lot of factors can change that significantly (medical expenses, who has higher living expenses, and so on), so that should really be considered the upper limit.

At the low end, it could be zero. The court could easily say that you both make significant incomes and are well able to take care of yourselves.

I'd suggest asking a local attorney for guidance on how your court would be likely to rule.

 

[midad8]

We've been married 14 years. Without the court's input, we decided on our own that $70k is enough income for me to live comfortably and still take care of the kids 40% of the time. So far, it has been working out for the last 8 months, and I have no problem paying my expenses. However, I am in a smaller place and definitely not living up to the same standard of living as before, whereas she is able to afford our old "big house" and the usually "fun times" with her $110k income. Also, she is starting to get nitpicky about all the costs outside of the child support (which BTW I will have to pay her even with her making 50% more than me due to the uneven parenting schedule). She wants to split things 50/50 despite the income difference. Thus, I would like to get an idea of what is the typical threshold in the income gap when spousal support is pursued. I know I am oversimplying and all those factors justalayman points out should be considered, but let's assume everything is equal except income. My goal, at the very least, is to able to bring up the fact that I am not pursuing spousal support, though I can, so that she would ease up on the small stuff.

 

[Proserpina]

We've been married 14 years. Without the court's input, we decided on our own that $70k is enough income for me to live comfortably and still take care of the kids 40% of the time. So far, it has been working out for the last 8 months, and I have no problem paying my expenses. However, I am in a smaller place and definitely not living up to the same standard of living as before, whereas she is able to afford our old "big house" and the usually "fun times" with her $110k income. Also, she is starting to get nitpicky about all the costs outside of the child support (which BTW I will have to pay her even with her making 50% more than me due to the uneven parenting schedule). She wants to split things 50/50 despite the income difference. Thus, I would like to get an idea of what is the typical threshold in the income gap when spousal support is pursued. I know I am oversimplying and all those factors justalayman points out should be considered, but let's assume everything is equal except income. My goal, at the very least, is to able to bring up the fact that I am not pursuing spousal support, though I can, so that she would ease up on the small stuff.

The fact that you've done ok for the last 8 months without spousal support is not in your favor.

 

[LdiJ]

We've been married 14 years. Without the court's input, we decided on our own that $70k is enough income for me to live comfortably and still take care of the kids 40% of the time. So far, it has been working out for the last 8 months, and I have no problem paying my expenses. However, I am in a smaller place and definitely not living up to the same standard of living as before, whereas she is able to afford our old "big house" and the usually "fun times" with her $110k income. Also, she is starting to get nitpicky about all the costs outside of the child support (which BTW I will have to pay her even with her making 50% more than me due to the uneven parenting schedule). She wants to split things 50/50 despite the income difference. Thus, I would like to get an idea of what is the typical threshold in the income gap when spousal support is pursued. I know I am oversimplying and all those factors justalayman points out should be considered, but let's assume everything is equal except income. My goal, at the very least, is to able to bring up the fact that I am not pursuing spousal support, though I can, so that she would ease up on the small stuff.

If she is in the "old big house" and paying those expenses on her own, expenses that were previously handled by your combined income, its likely that she is feeling the financial pinch a little more than you are, even though she makes more money than you.

While I understand that you are hoping that the "threat" of spousal support might make her back off on some of the outside expenses for the children, I honestly don't think that gives you much leverage. I honestly think that your odds of receiving spousal support, with your income level, would be slim.

However, due to the uneven incomes you would have a very good shot at getting a court order for the outside expenses to be divided proportional to income. Your income is roughly 40% of the combined income. Therefore you could get an order that required her to pay 60% of the outside expenses and you 40%.

 

[Bali Hai]

We've been married 14 years. Without the court's input, we decided on our own that $70k is enough income for me to live comfortably and still take care of the kids 40% of the time. So far, it has been working out for the last 8 months, and I have no problem paying my expenses. However, I am in a smaller place and definitely not living up to the same standard of living as before, whereas she is able to afford our old "big house" and the usually "fun times" with her $110k income. Also, she is starting to get nitpicky about all the costs outside of the child support (which BTW I will have to pay her even with her making 50% more than me due to the uneven parenting schedule). She wants to split things 50/50 despite the income difference. Thus, I would like to get an idea of what is the typical threshold in the income gap when spousal support is pursued. I know I am oversimplying and all those factors justalayman points out should be considered, but let's assume everything is equal except income. My goal, at the very least, is to able to bring up the fact that I am not pursuing spousal support, though I can, so that she would ease up on the small stuff.

$1700/per month for 10 years is what you should consider asking the court to award you.

 

[Bali Hai]

If she is in the "old big house" and paying those expenses on her own, expenses that were previously handled by your combined income, its likely that she is feeling the financial pinch a little more than you are, even though she makes more money than you.

Well that's too bad for her, she can downsize to pay the alimony like everyone else does.

While I understand that you are hoping that the "threat" of spousal support might make her back off on some of the outside expenses for the children, I honestly don't think that gives you much leverage. I honestly think that your odds of receiving spousal support, with your income level, would be slim.

However, due to the uneven incomes you would have a very good shot at getting a court order for the outside expenses to be divided proportional to income. Your income is roughly 40% of the combined income. Therefore you could get an order that required her to pay 60% of the outside expenses and you 40%.

He is protected by statute in the divorce to expect the same standard of living closest to what it was in the marriage.

 

[midad8]

Thank you everyone all for your advice. I will be meeting with an attorney next week to determine what my rights are under MI law. I am trying not to be an a**h*** about things and maintain some level of civility for our kids, but I also don't want to be a pushover and give up all my rights.

 

[Bali Hai]

Thank you everyone all for your advice. I will be meeting with an attorney next week to determine what my rights are under MI law. I am trying not to be an a**h*** about things and maintain some level of civility for our kids, but I also don't want to be a pushover and give up all my rights.

You need to look out for you and your kids. If she could get alimony from you, she wouldn't think twice about nailing your butt with it, no matter how it impacted the kids, trust me.

 

[stealth2]

You need to look out for you and your kids. If she could get alimony from you, she wouldn't think twice about nailing your butt with it, no matter how it impacted the kids, trust me.

And that, Bali, is bull puckies. Not everyone is as driven by the all-mighty dollar as you are (which you must be, since you rail on about it so much). I know of only one person who asked for alimony - and she asked for it to be for a limited period of time while she went to school so she could support herself. And that was after 27 years of marriage and raising 3 kids. I was advised to ask for alimony - he made about 5 times what I did - and I refused.

So take your bias and stick it in the pie hole.

 

[LizzieB]

Spousal support in many states is based on the amount of time it would take a spouse (typically the "stay at home mom") to get retrained and enter the work force.

Man up, OP.

With 40% custody, you making $70k and she making $100k, it's likely you should not be paying any child support and if anything, receiving child support.

I'm not familiar with MI law, but that's what common sense tells me.

 

[LdiJ]

Spousal support in many states is based on the amount of time it would take a spouse (typically the "stay at home mom") to get retrained and enter the work force.

Man up, OP.

With 40% custody, you making $70k and she making $100k, it's likely you should not be paying any child support and if anything, receiving child support.

I'm not familiar with MI law, but that's what common sense tells me.

Unfortunately, your common sense is not accurate. If the situation were 50/50 rather than 60/40 you might be accurate.

 

[mistoffolees]

And that, Bali, is bull puckies. Not everyone is as driven by the all-mighty dollar as you are (which you must be, since you rail on about it so much). I know of only one person who asked for alimony - and she asked for it to be for a limited period of time while she went to school so she could support herself. And that was after 27 years of marriage and raising 3 kids. I was advised to ask for alimony - he made about 5 times what I did - and I refused.

I should have married you.

My ex got 4 years of significant alimony based on a 14 year marriage. And that's what she got - she ASKED for about 90% of my gross income for 10 years (plus child support on top of that even though we had 50:50 custody).

Apparently, your friends are more reasonable than some people.

Spousal support in many states is based on the amount of time it would take a spouse (typically the "stay at home mom") to get retrained and enter the work force.

Man up, OP.

With 40% custody, you making $70k and she making $100k, it's likely you should not be paying any child support and if anything, receiving child support.

I'm not familiar with MI law, but that's what common sense tells me.

Please stop posting about things you don't know about. If you aren't familiar with MI law, you shouldn't be commenting on the topic.

 

[stealth2]

I should have married you.

Nah... I'm much more fun when you don't live with me.

Apparently, your friends are more reasonable than some people.

Apparently.