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Where do we go ? Who can help us ??
- Thread starter mamadi
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Boxcarbill
Guest
My experience with experts
And if you want to get your money's worth, you ask for a jury trial instead of a bench trial. Jurors are more easily impressed by "expert witnesses" than judges. Furthermore, jurors, as a panel, are not generally bright enough to scrutinize the psychologist's testimony--ie. they don't realize that unless the psychologist has interviewed both parents, the child and the child with both parents, their "expert" testimony isn't worth the time it takes to listen to it. They also don't realize that the expert is going to testify favorably for whichever party is paying for the testimony are the expert won't be asked to testify, duh. Also judges are familiar with the many psychologist and/or family therapist in the community and based upon the judge's years of experience of having heard different psychologist testify, the judges have formulated an opinion of the professionalism and knowledge of each particular psychologist; jurors have not had that advantage. So if one is going to be out the expense of an expert unless the psychologist has a very good reputation with the courts and is going to interview both parents, ask for a jury trial.
Side bar: One last note, before spending money on a psychologist or any other expert that you expect to call as a witness at trial, ask the person if they are willing testify at trial and what that additional fee will be. Many psychologist, medical doctors and other experts are not willing to testify at trial.
Deblynrob said:
And if you want to get your money's worth, you ask for a jury trial instead of a bench trial. Jurors are more easily impressed by "expert witnesses" than judges. Furthermore, jurors, as a panel, are not generally bright enough to scrutinize the psychologist's testimony--ie. they don't realize that unless the psychologist has interviewed both parents, the child and the child with both parents, their "expert" testimony isn't worth the time it takes to listen to it. They also don't realize that the expert is going to testify favorably for whichever party is paying for the testimony are the expert won't be asked to testify, duh. Also judges are familiar with the many psychologist and/or family therapist in the community and based upon the judge's years of experience of having heard different psychologist testify, the judges have formulated an opinion of the professionalism and knowledge of each particular psychologist; jurors have not had that advantage. So if one is going to be out the expense of an expert unless the psychologist has a very good reputation with the courts and is going to interview both parents, ask for a jury trial.
Side bar: One last note, before spending money on a psychologist or any other expert that you expect to call as a witness at trial, ask the person if they are willing testify at trial and what that additional fee will be. Many psychologist, medical doctors and other experts are not willing to testify at trial.
Thanks for the advice Boxcarbill. I think we were typing at the same time and I just noticed your reply. That's great advice about having a jury trial. We are still hoping it doesn't have to come to that. We still hope and pray that mom will come to a conclusion that the best thing to do is work together with us in determining the best things for the kids.
I believe we will find counselor or child psychiatrist on Monday that SS can speak with.
OT - What is the difference between psychologist and psychiatrist and which would be appropriate for our situation ??
Thanks again for the great help !!
I believe we will find counselor or child psychiatrist on Monday that SS can speak with.
OT - What is the difference between psychologist and psychiatrist and which would be appropriate for our situation ??
Thanks again for the great help !!
A psychiatrist is an MD and can prescribe medication. Psychiatrists have more training, but more often than not do not do therapy.
A psychologist is a PhD and can not prescribe medication. Psychologists do therapy.
I would think he would see a psychologist. I really don't believe there would be a need for medication.
A psychologist is a PhD and can not prescribe medication. Psychologists do therapy.
I would think he would see a psychologist. I really don't believe there would be a need for medication.
Whyte Noise
Senior Member
Well, I was gonna answer, but Deblynrob did it before I could. LOL
I'd say a psychologist too.
And to answer your question to me mamadi, this was my son's first time seeing this psychiatrist. However, he will be seeing him every month. I took him because of his ADHD, and if my son needed to be on meds, the psychiatrist was the only one that could prescribe. In addition to the psychiatrist appointments every month, he's also going to be set up with counseling sessions twice a month to work on the anger management, aggression, violent behavior, and defiant behavior. I guess the psych. just asked my son the right questions though, because he told him all kinds of things. He needs to see him every month to make sure the medications arent affecting him in an adverse way. The "counseling" will take place with the psychologist.
I'd say a psychologist too.
And to answer your question to me mamadi, this was my son's first time seeing this psychiatrist. However, he will be seeing him every month. I took him because of his ADHD, and if my son needed to be on meds, the psychiatrist was the only one that could prescribe. In addition to the psychiatrist appointments every month, he's also going to be set up with counseling sessions twice a month to work on the anger management, aggression, violent behavior, and defiant behavior. I guess the psych. just asked my son the right questions though, because he told him all kinds of things. He needs to see him every month to make sure the medications arent affecting him in an adverse way. The "counseling" will take place with the psychologist.
What about just a regular family counselor ??
We're pretty new at this so we're not sure how to approach the situation. Would we have a chance to speak with the counselor and let them know what's going on and what we are trying to accomplish ??
We know SS would talk about the things he's seen but once he discusses these things with a counselor would that counselor's documentation weigh much in the eyes of a judge ??
Thanks again
We're pretty new at this so we're not sure how to approach the situation. Would we have a chance to speak with the counselor and let them know what's going on and what we are trying to accomplish ??
We know SS would talk about the things he's seen but once he discusses these things with a counselor would that counselor's documentation weigh much in the eyes of a judge ??
Thanks again
tigger22472
Senior Member
Seeing that the child is a minor you would have the opportunity to speak with and join in with counseling sessions. Call up someone and explain your situation that you would like to have a meeting with a potential counselor before taking your son, which is a good idea anyways because then you get an idea if you'd like him to see this person. Then once with the person explain why you are there, what the situation is and in your case see if they are willing to go to court to testify if you needed them.
I haven't taken my drugs yet LOLWhyte Noise
Senior Member
A regular family counselor is more than likely going to be either a psychologist, or a LCSW (Licensed Clinical Social Worker) anyways.
I don't know if you'll go in with him or not. I went in with my son only because he asked me to. I would have let him go in on his own. Of course, I talked to the psychiatrist alone after he was done talking with my son, and I imagine that's going to be pretty much what you will do too. Well, probably before... they have to know the reason they are seeing the child.
Whether it would weigh more in the eyes of the judge no one could really tell you. However, in my layman's way of thinking, I'd have to say that documentation by a professional would carry more weight than that of your written notes saying he told you this or that. Then, of course, you'll have to get into the whole Rules of Evidence issue... whether it's admissable or not, heresay or not, etc. if you all decide to bring any of this up in court.
If the child is having issues with all this, then by all means get him in to see and talk with someone about it. But don't let the fact that "it might burn the ex in court" or "prove our case" be the motivating factors behind your choice. Not saying that's what you are doing mamadi, just throwing that out there for all to see.
I don't know if you'll go in with him or not. I went in with my son only because he asked me to. I would have let him go in on his own. Of course, I talked to the psychiatrist alone after he was done talking with my son, and I imagine that's going to be pretty much what you will do too. Well, probably before... they have to know the reason they are seeing the child.
Whether it would weigh more in the eyes of the judge no one could really tell you. However, in my layman's way of thinking, I'd have to say that documentation by a professional would carry more weight than that of your written notes saying he told you this or that. Then, of course, you'll have to get into the whole Rules of Evidence issue... whether it's admissable or not, heresay or not, etc. if you all decide to bring any of this up in court.
If the child is having issues with all this, then by all means get him in to see and talk with someone about it. But don't let the fact that "it might burn the ex in court" or "prove our case" be the motivating factors behind your choice. Not saying that's what you are doing mamadi, just throwing that out there for all to see.
tigger22472
Senior Member
Word of advice.. (and you better not call me Terry.. hee hee 
) When you "basically" interview the counselor make sure you let them know your #1 priority is to have your ss talk to someone about what he's seen and make sure that he ok. Don't go in there saying "We need someone to testify in court... now will you?". I would tactfully approach the subject explaining that you are in the middle of a custody hearing. If you start failing to find someone since many people are reluctant to get involved in such issues I would fall back to the GAL. Call your lawyer... he would be able to help you find someone so this could be taken care of before Nov. and it's not postponed again.
) When you "basically" interview the counselor make sure you let them know your #1 priority is to have your ss talk to someone about what he's seen and make sure that he ok. Don't go in there saying "We need someone to testify in court... now will you?". I would tactfully approach the subject explaining that you are in the middle of a custody hearing. If you start failing to find someone since many people are reluctant to get involved in such issues I would fall back to the GAL. Call your lawyer... he would be able to help you find someone so this could be taken care of before Nov. and it's not postponed again.
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Boxcarbill
Guest
tigger22472 said:Word of advice.. (and you better not call me Terry.. hee hee
Well, now excuse me but her number one priority is finding someone who will corroborate her son's statements to her and her husband concerning the drinking and the domestic disputes that are occurring in the home of the child's mother. This isn't about the boy being so traumatized that he is wetting his pants or pooping in his pants. Her goal is testimony at trial to prevent her stepson from going for extended visitation with the mom. Dress it up anyway you please and put a big pink bow on it. The goal is testimony that the child is suffering emotional and/or physical harm by being exposed to his mother's home. Therefore, at over $100.00 an hour for the therapy and more for testimony, she damn sure better find out if she has a psychologist who is willing to testify at trial and who will be available to testify on that date if the testimony is needed and she better do it early on.
Thanks for the wonderful advice. It certainly gives us a direction to start with. It's hard to tell with SS if any of this has had an effect on him. We don't see anything outwardly -- unless we just haven't picked up on it. Last night when he was talking to us about these things (and he just kept on and on like he had been holding it in until he got home and just had to let it out) I asked him if he was scared when he saw Eric pushing mom into the wall. He got a tough look on his face and said "no" . But it seems to me it would have to frighten him in some way unless he is just use to seeing that type of altercation between mom and bf. But really, that's not something you get use to.
** I agree Boxcarbill. We see no obvious problems with SS. But I understand what you are saying . .. we will be tactful in our approach when speaking with the counselor/ therapist. And your right, our goal is to make sure the kids are in the safest enviornment at all times. Why would we want to put them in an atmosphere where these incidents are most likely to take place ?
SD is only four and she doesn't say much. She talks about some things but not as much as Timothy. Timothy is full of questions , especially about drinking beer and driving. He is told by mom that it's okay if she drives after she drinks. (they went to some festival and Eric and mom were drinking beer "for a long time and then mom drove us home".
Timothy also says that when Eric was pushing mom , "mom was calling Eric a baby killer". Apparantly Timothy asked mom the next day why she called Eric and baby killer and she told him some story about a bird. I can only imagine what that comment was stemming from.
Thanks again for all your help. We are just about sick to our stomachs having to listen to these babies talk about the stuff they've seen and heard. They have to go back for two more weeks --- in two weeks.
Would it be wise to discuss these incidents with mom or just not give her any indications that the kids talked to us about it.?? We know for a fact that she always tells them "don't tell daddy". So we don't want them getting in trouble for talking to us.
You're help is appeciated !!
** I agree Boxcarbill. We see no obvious problems with SS. But I understand what you are saying . .. we will be tactful in our approach when speaking with the counselor/ therapist. And your right, our goal is to make sure the kids are in the safest enviornment at all times. Why would we want to put them in an atmosphere where these incidents are most likely to take place ?
SD is only four and she doesn't say much. She talks about some things but not as much as Timothy. Timothy is full of questions , especially about drinking beer and driving. He is told by mom that it's okay if she drives after she drinks. (they went to some festival and Eric and mom were drinking beer "for a long time and then mom drove us home".
Timothy also says that when Eric was pushing mom , "mom was calling Eric a baby killer". Apparantly Timothy asked mom the next day why she called Eric and baby killer and she told him some story about a bird. I can only imagine what that comment was stemming from.
Thanks again for all your help. We are just about sick to our stomachs having to listen to these babies talk about the stuff they've seen and heard. They have to go back for two more weeks --- in two weeks.
Would it be wise to discuss these incidents with mom or just not give her any indications that the kids talked to us about it.?? We know for a fact that she always tells them "don't tell daddy". So we don't want them getting in trouble for talking to us.
You're help is appeciated !!
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tigger22472
Senior Member
Boxcarbill said:
I didn't say that wasn't her goal.. just to not go into a counselors office sounding as if that's her ONLY goal. Yes, I realize that it could be but then how do you not know this counselor sees that, agrees to do it then goes to court and when asked says. "Father and step-mom came to my office and the first thing they asked was if I would testify in their behalf in order for them to win custody."? As I said it may in fact be the goal and I'm not saying not to ask and not to find someone that would do it but not to go in there looking like they are simply doing this to go out for revenge. A counselor may be reluctant then.