Without Legal Custody Agreement, Can He Take Our Son & Not Give Him Back?

[funnybabyboy200]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Pennsylvania
I posted a thread in the the family abuse category also. The PFA has been dropped for my son, however, there is a 90 day continuance on the PFA between my ex & I. I got my son back from my mother's house yesterday, my ex never went & got him from my mother's house, leaving my son without either of his parents for a week. Our lawyers talked & agreed that I could have my son yesterday, which was the usual day that he was with his father, and he would pick him up from daycare today & keep him until Saturday evening. Seeing as there isn't a legal custody agreement between us, I believe that he could take my son & not give him back. Is this correct? If that happens, what can happen?
My lawyer filed for custody yesterday, but my ex had already filed for custody, so we didn't have to. I haven't received the papers yet. I don't really think my ex wants our son, but he doesn't want to have to pay support. Are we just in limbo until we settle custody, and either of us can just not give the baby back to the other parent? I am not planning on doing it, but I am very concerned that he will.
Since there's a PFA on me, we don't have to go to custody mediation, (Children In Between), which I'm hoping will speed up the process. I just hate not knowing if I will be able to get my son back when I'm supposed to. I feel like this whole thing has nothing to do with my son, & everything to do with revenge & being hurtful to me. It's working! And really, it's also hurting my son, who has no idea why he's getting tossed around.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Pennsylvania
I posted a thread in the the family abuse category also. The PFA has been dropped for my son, however, there is a 90 day continuance on the PFA between my ex & I. I got my son back from my mother's house yesterday, my ex never went & got him from my mother's house, leaving my son without either of his parents for a week. Our lawyers talked & agreed that I could have my son yesterday, which was the usual day that he was with his father, and he would pick him up from daycare today & keep him until Saturday evening. Seeing as there isn't a legal custody agreement between us, I believe that he could take my son & not give him back. Is this correct? If that happens, what can happen?
My lawyer filed for custody yesterday, but my ex had already filed for custody, so we didn't have to. I haven't received the papers yet. I don't really think my ex wants our son, but he doesn't want to have to pay support. Are we just in limbo until we settle custody, and either of us can just not give the baby back to the other parent? I am not planning on doing it, but I am very concerned that he will.
Since there's a PFA on me, we don't have to go to custody mediation, (Children In Between), which I'm hoping will speed up the process. I just hate not knowing if I will be able to get my son back when I'm supposed to. I feel like this whole thing has nothing to do with my son, & everything to do with revenge & being hurtful to me. It's working! And really, it's also hurting my son, who has no idea why he's getting tossed around.

If you both have attorneys its less likely that either of you would try to withhold the child from the other parent. Your respective attorneys would advise against it and would know that the other attorney would use it against you in court.

Therefore if he doesn't return the child to you, get ahold of your attorney as fast as possible.

 

[funnybabyboy200]

Thanks for the response...I indeed did get my son back tonight. I was very relieved! Now I have another question.

What kind of stuff can I use in a custody case? I have an extensive account of events starting when my son was born. I edited it down to about 20 pages which I gave to my lawyer. She did say that that info would be helpful.

What about facebook postings? Are those admissable? I have pictures that he posted of himself & my son in a bar from just today. How about things like he doesn't change his clothing when he has him? Diaper rash when he returns home? He smelled of smoke when I picked him up today, I'm sure that was probably from his mother's house (she's our switch off person, since I'm not allowed to be around him), or possibly from the bar he was in. I might be nitpicking, but I am afraid he will get custody. I need to use every possible thing I can.

He also did not administer any of the antibiotic my son was prescribed last week. He should have received the last 2 doses while he was with his father, & the bottle came back with 15mls in it, the same amount it had when I sent it with my son.

Will any of this help my case?

 

[Proserpina]

Thanks for the response...I indeed did get my son back tonight. I was very relieved! Now I have another question.

What kind of stuff can I use in a custody case? I have an extensive account of events starting when my son was born. I edited it down to about 20 pages which I gave to my lawyer. She did say that that info would be helpful.

What about facebook postings? Are those admissable? I have pictures that he posted of himself & my son in a bar from just today. How about things like he doesn't change his clothing when he has him? Diaper rash when he returns home? He smelled of smoke when I picked him up today, I'm sure that was probably from his mother's house (she's our switch off person, since I'm not allowed to be around him), or possibly from the bar he was in. I might be nitpicking, but I am afraid he will get custody. I need to use every possible thing I can.

He also did not administer any of the antibiotic my son was prescribed last week. He should have received the last 2 doses while he was with his father, & the bottle came back with 15mls in it, the same amount it had when I sent it with my son.

Will any of this help my case?

Honestly?

No. It's all minor stuff. Nothing illegal. Even the medication - one incidence of Dad forgetting over his weekend is not a huge deal at all.

Stop focusing on what's bad about Dad; slinging mud only leaves your hands dirty.

 

[funnybabyboy200]

Ok...this is scary stuff. I am just really scared about it. I have always had my son with me. We were going to submit our custody petition with him getting our son every other weekend. We didn't because he filed before me. He filed for custody the same day he filed a PFA against me. I can't wait to see what his petition says.

It's probably going to be something like "plaintiff seeks full legal custody and requests defendant assume full physical custody".

I hate to be negative, but the man did leave my son at his grandmother's, my mother's, house for a full week after filing a PFA on my son's behalf. He has never been away from both of his parents for that long, especially considering he was very sick, I think it was cruel.

But I will just pray that the judge sees what this is about, money. I am almost ready to tell my ex that I'll forget about support if he just stops with the custody. I am certain that if I could guarantee him I wouldn't go for support, he would let it go.

 

[Proserpina]

Ok...this is scary stuff. I am just really scared about it. I have always had my son with me. We were going to submit our custody petition with him getting our son every other weekend. We didn't because he filed before me. He filed for custody the same day he filed a PFA against me. I can't wait to see what his petition says.

It's probably going to be something like "plaintiff seeks full legal custody and requests defendant assume full physical custody".

I hate to be negative, but the man did leave my son at his grandmother's, my mother's, house for a full week after filing a PFA on my son's behalf. He has never been away from both of his parents for that long, especially considering he was very sick, I think it was cruel.

But I will just pray that the judge sees what this is about, money. I am almost ready to tell my ex that I'll forget about support if he just stops with the custody. I am certain that if I could guarantee him I wouldn't go for support, he would let it go.

Okay then.

It's probably time for both of you to take some co-parenting classes. Because the way this seems to be playing out, you're going to have a long, miserable time ahead of you.

 

[funnybabyboy200]

...and I am the only one who was worried about getting my son back tonight. My family & friends assured me that I would get him back because there was a UFC fight tonight, tomorrow's football, and Monday is my ex's birthday. I quote, he has "a life" on the weekends, he doesn't want to be bothered with our kid. It's a front.

Let me shut up. I'm just so angry he put my son through a week without either of us, forced me to get a lawyer which I can ill afford. For NOTHING. Two days before he filed this PFA, he was begging me to take him back because he loves me so much & doesn't want to be with anyone else and can't get me off his mind. I just don't feel like I can trust him AT ALL, even after this PFA is long gone, our communication is going to be email only. He filed 4 PFA's against his ex-wife, unknown to me until he did it to ME. I don't want to take my son away from him, but I don't want him to take him away for the wrong reasons...trust me, if he wanted him for the right reasons, I probably never would have left him.

 

[funnybabyboy200]

Ok. That sounds like a positive move. I'll take co-parenting classes. I will look into it. I don't want it to be miserable for my son, & I swear to myself for my son that I will never let him know what I think about his father. He is going to find out himself.

So that's what I'll do. I'll take co-parenting classes. Him, I have no idea. We can't speak.

 

[Proserpina]

Ok. That sounds like a positive move. I'll take co-parenting classes. I will look into it. I don't want it to be miserable for my son, & I swear to myself for my son that I will never let him know what I think about his father. He is going to find out himself.

So that's what I'll do. I'll take co-parenting classes. Him, I have no idea. We can't speak.

They might really help you, Mom. Let's face it, you can't control what he does, nor how he parents your mutual child.

All you can do is focus on what you can control and how you react to him and how you adjust to the situation.

You. CAN. Do. This.

Co-parenting isn't always easy. It's can be nigh on impossible when the other parent isn't playing ball. Sometimes you're going to dig so far down into yourself to reach the very last bit of patience that you can muster that you're picking at your toenails practically. But you can do it. You've got to be the best parent you can be no matter what the other parent is doing.

There are also books available to help you deal with a hostile parent. I think it was only earlier today (maybe yesterday) that I mentioned two titles that have been suggested here before.

Have a look around.

Ground yourself. Focus.

 

[LdiJ]

Ok...this is scary stuff. I am just really scared about it. I have always had my son with me. We were going to submit our custody petition with him getting our son every other weekend. We didn't because he filed before me. He filed for custody the same day he filed a PFA against me. I can't wait to see what his petition says.

It's probably going to be something like "plaintiff seeks full legal custody and requests defendant assume full physical custody".

I hate to be negative, but the man did leave my son at his grandmother's, my mother's, house for a full week after filing a PFA on my son's behalf. He has never been away from both of his parents for that long, especially considering he was very sick, I think it was cruel.

But I will just pray that the judge sees what this is about, money. I am almost ready to tell my ex that I'll forget about support if he just stops with the custody. I am certain that if I could guarantee him I wouldn't go for support, he would let it go.

If your child has always been with you, then you have clearly always been the child's primary caregiver and you have status quo. The odds of dad receiving primary custody are slim. What is most likely to happen is that you will end up with joint legal custody (joint decision making) with you having primary custody.

Off course it won't hurt at all to point out to the judge that dad left the child with your mother for a week, when he could have exercised custody under his false PFA.

 

[funnybabyboy200]

I still haven't been served with the custody petition he filed, so I went to the prothonotary's office & printed it. It included another document called a verification. He has filed for a Petition to Proceed in Forma Pauperis. It apparently hasn't been approved yet. He receives SSDI benefits. He bought the home he owns 16 years ago. He claims he receives $1300 in benefits, & has ~$1600 in expenses/month. He also claims that his older child is financially dependent upon him on line 3g. This isn't true, at least it wasn't 2 weeks ago. That child visits every other weekend. He claims he has no other income besides SSDI. One of my greatest concerns is that he will be able to outspend me to gain custody. I have a decent job, but I have fixed expenses like mortgage & daycare that are sucking money up like crazy.
He is in school & is receiving state & federal grants which pay for the entirety of his tuition, along with providing him with cash back at the end of every semester. He attends a community college (for Criminal Justice!), and there are 4 semesters per calendar year. In addition to his grant money, he is taking $5000/semester in student loans. So I don't know if this is included as income or not, but I do know that he has more than $20,000/year cash that he doesn't have to/chooses not to reveal when applying for low-income assistance. Whether he has to or not, I don't know, because technically he will have to pay them back.
HOWEVER, the real issue is that he has access to large amounts of cash, and I fear I will be bought out of the game. I'm ready to go back to school to fund my legal battles too, except I'd NEED the student loans because I don't qualify for grants.
I know I have a lawyer, but I am careful of my time with her & try to diminish or clarify my questions before I go to her. She's expensive. I've paid the retainer for custody, and I am trying to keep my head above water until income tax time. Also considering raiding my 401K, or at least stopping my contribution.

Will he qualify for for this poverty accommodation?
If so, this will only forgive him for fees incurred during the custody process, not provide him with free counsel, correct?
Is the student loan money considered income (He neither claimed it as income, nor claimed it as a debt)?

His next grant/student loan will be coming in early March, he just received one a few weeks ago (his tv is nicer than yours). I know this check is gone, I know the next one is in 4 months, I need to know how fast I need to act, or if I should sit back & wait, or what. He has no cash now, and apparently, no lawyer...he filed "pro se".

I am hoping that if I can get this handled before he gets more cash, I don't have to worry about him having a lawyer. Can he just ask for continuance after continuance until he gets more cash?

 

[LdiJ]

I still haven't been served with the custody petition he filed, so I went to the prothonotary's office & printed it. It included another document called a verification. He has filed for a Petition to Proceed in Forma Pauperis. It apparently hasn't been approved yet. He receives SSDI benefits. He bought the home he owns 16 years ago. He claims he receives $1300 in benefits, & has ~$1600 in expenses/month. He also claims that his older child is financially dependent upon him on line 3g. This isn't true, at least it wasn't 2 weeks ago. That child visits every other weekend. He claims he has no other income besides SSDI. One of my greatest concerns is that he will be able to outspend me to gain custody. I have a decent job, but I have fixed expenses like mortgage & daycare that are sucking money up like crazy.
He is in school & is receiving state & federal grants which pay for the entirety of his tuition, along with providing him with cash back at the end of every semester. He attends a community college (for Criminal Justice!), and there are 4 semesters per calendar year. In addition to his grant money, he is taking $5000/semester in student loans. So I don't know if this is included as income or not, but I do know that he has more than $20,000/year cash that he doesn't have to/chooses not to reveal when applying for low-income assistance. Whether he has to or not, I don't know, because technically he will have to pay them back.
HOWEVER, the real issue is that he has access to large amounts of cash, and I fear I will be bought out of the game. I'm ready to go back to school to fund my legal battles too, except I'd NEED the student loans because I don't qualify for grants.
I know I have a lawyer, but I am careful of my time with her & try to diminish or clarify my questions before I go to her. She's expensive. I've paid the retainer for custody, and I am trying to keep my head above water until income tax time. Also considering raiding my 401K, or at least stopping my contribution.

Will he qualify for for this poverty accommodation?
If so, this will only forgive him for fees incurred during the custody process, not provide him with free counsel, correct?
Is the student loan money considered income (He neither claimed it as income, nor claimed it as a debt)?

His next grant/student loan will be coming in early March, he just received one a few weeks ago (his tv is nicer than yours). I know this check is gone, I know the next one is in 4 months, I need to know how fast I need to act, or if I should sit back & wait, or what. He has no cash now, and apparently, no lawyer...he filed "pro se".

I am hoping that if I can get this handled before he gets more cash, I don't have to worry about him having a lawyer. Can he just ask for continuance after continuance until he gets more cash?

Personally, I wouldn't be in any rush. He may not even follow through on the custody case since he couldn't make the PFA stick.

 

[funnybabyboy200]

Met with my attorney again today. I asked her so many questions, but my mind is constantly going, and I keep coming up with more. @ $300/hour, I try to ask my questions FAST.

So, a few questions:

He filed a Petition to Proceed in Forma Pauperis. From what I understand, the fact that he filed this petition & was approved means that he can not pay for counsel. If he gets someone to represent him pro bono, that's ok. I don't anticipate that happening. If he comes across some money, will he be allowed to hire an attorney? I feel better knowing he doesn't have a lawyer, but I know he will be getting money in March, so I need to know what kind of time frame I have if he can hire someone. I need to plan ahead to try and also come up with some money. He hasn't paid a dime, and I'm $2500+ deep. We have our conciliatory hearing on the 15th, before a master. I know that if either of us files an exception, we are looking at probably March before we go before a judge. He will have money at that point.

My lawyer said that when we get to the hearing, he will be able to tell his side of the story first. She can't cross-examine him. Than, she will ask me some questions, and I will respond. Will he be able to cross-examine me when she is finished? I am thinking no, but I'm making sure.

I asked her if she felt that there was anything working against me, and she said the only thing he has is that he's available because he's not working. However, he refused to stay with our son, which is why I put him in daycare. He currently takes him to daycare on both of the days that he has visitation with our son.

Also, I meant to ask her if she could recommend any books for me to read. I'm currently reading The Co-parenting Survival Guide, which seems ok. Anything else that you can recommend? I wasn't able to find the post that someone mentioned that contained some recommended books. I am attending Children in the Middle tomorrow night, so I am hoping they can recommend some books also.

I thank each respondent for their help. This is extremely important, and I don't have a lot of money. I need to learn as much as I can, and I need to do it as inexpensively as possible. I have learned an immense amount from this website, and now, I have a completely different perspective than when I began this journey a month ago. I truly believe that with a lot of effort & smiling when I want to scream, I can be a bit more objective, although I think it's impossible to be completely objective.

I thank you for that nudge in the right direction. I think that my demeanor is going to have an impact on the decisions being made for my family. I not only want to appear reasonable, but I want to be reasonable, fair, & focused on the well-being of my son.

 

[funnybabyboy200]

Grandma called me tonight freaking out that I only packed one diaper for my son, and ranting and raving about how I used to pack all kinds of stuff & I don't anymore, etc. I asked her if my son was with her, and she said no, but she was watching him tomorrow for Dad. I asked if Dad didn't have money for diapers, and she said she doesn't know, but she thinks I should bring her diapers for her to keep at her house. I told her that if Dad has diapers & she wants some, she should ask him. I again asked if my son had any diapers at her house or Dad's, and she hung up on me. She won't answer the phone, but I left a message saying that if my son needs diapers & isn't going to get any that she needs to call me back. I haven't heard anything.

This is infuriating. What do I do? I can't go to Dad's, and grandma lives in a secured high rise. I would drop them off if I could. I don't want my son to go without.

 

[TheGeekess]

Grandma called me tonight freaking out that I only packed one diaper for my son, and ranting and raving about how I used to pack all kinds of stuff & I don't anymore, etc. I asked her if my son was with her, and she said no, but she was watching him tomorrow for Dad. I asked if Dad didn't have money for diapers, and she said she doesn't know, but she thinks I should bring her diapers for her to keep at her house. I told her that if Dad has diapers & she wants some, she should ask him. I again asked if my son had any diapers at her house or Dad's, and she hung up on me. She won't answer the phone, but I left a message saying that if my son needs diapers & isn't going to get any that she needs to call me back. I haven't heard anything.

This is infuriating. What do I do? I can't go to Dad's, and grandma lives in a secured high rise. I would drop them off if I could. I don't want my son to go without.

Let them worry about Junior's diapers. It's not like they are available only to parents.