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Without Legal Custody Agreement, Can He Take Our Son & Not Give Him Back?

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Well Dad filed exceptions, so it looks like we're going to trial. I have figured out the financial end for the moment. Long term I would imagine this could financially ruin me.

As for the diaper incident, I stopped responding to Grandma's texts last night, and this morning when I woke up there were many texts awaiting me. Grandma thinks I'm the devil, I'm going to burn in hell, I'm the worst mother, she's never seen a mother like me, she hopes I find God in my heart before it's too late.

I emailed Grandma this morning & said that I don't want her to contact me anymore unless it is a medical or safety emergency, and from now on I will be communicating with Dad through my own mother. She texted back "tell your mother to leave my son alone 2"

This is so stressful, but in the long run, I am hoping today will be a day remembered in a positive light. I thought the day I was served with the PFA was the worst day ever, but in time I realized life is so much easier not dealing with Dad in the way that I was.
 


I have a question, but let me update quickly.

The PFA he had against me was dismissed on Thursday. His attorney told me that he will not communicate with me in regard to our son. She said he told her that if I have something to tell him that I should tell his mother. Read my previous post. His mother is constantly telling me I'm going to burn in hell, that I am vicious and God is going to punish me, etc. And she's never seen such a horrible mother.

When I give her info about our son, she tells me "my son knows very well how to take care of his son". I am not trying to tell him what to do, I'm telling him that our kid is sitting on the potty more, that I'm still giving him Zyrtec every night, that his runny nose is improving now that he's drinking Lactaid. That kind of stuff. So I don't even know if he's getting the info I send to her. I would appreciate some reciprocity; "yes he's sitting on the potty more, no I'm not giving him Zyrtec, yes I think the lactaid milk is helping, he must have a milk allergy", but that is NOT what I get.

I do not want to talk to her. I told her that last week, and I also said that I will communicate with him through my own mother, and she said "tell your mother to leave my son alone".

At the PFA hearing, she walked up to me, told me she loves me, touched my face, at which point I jerked away from her, and then she grabbed me and hugged me. I think she's absolutely crazy.

I am conflicted. If I absolutely have to deal with Grandma, I guess I will. However, it's been extremely unsuccessful in the past. Any suggestions?

What if I write in a journal book, and send it in the diaper bag, and if Dad responds, he responds, if not, at least he has the info I have to give?

Help! Please! I really am unsure of how to proceed.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Request the court to order that you and your ex utilize either sharekids or our family wizard -- those sites can be very helpful.
 
Thank you again for the responses.

Please bear with me...I have limited financial resources & a whole lot of questions. I am trying to maximize my resources here.

I understand that I need to submit a memo to the court as to what our background info is (where the child has lived, if we were ever married, etc). It also asks for a list of exhibits or persons/documentation I would like subpoenaed for the trial.

Does the list need to be all inclusive? What if the opposition is subpoenaing something that will necessitate my side to subpoena something else? Can it be added if it isn't included in the memo?

Will the evidence that he was fraudulently collecting welfare using our child have an impact? Will his federal student grant fraud? He applied for motorcycle loans several places using his father's personal info. He uses his older children's personal info to gain services & goods. I have requested a copy of our son's credit report, haven't received it yet.

I have emails back and forth from him and I, where I'm talking about various different things. Our son's childcare, our son's well being, his developmental delays, whatever. I am so so grateful I have these. I am not unreasonable in any of them. I'm clearly giving him information, trying to involve him, trying to keep him abreast. His responses are damning. He says he's too busy, he agrees to things that he later doesn't follow through on (based on the statements he's made in court documents, it's clear he's backed out of things he agreed to do in emails, things that were for our son), he refuses to spend time with our son. Even if the welfare records aren't helpful, I have emails from 1.5 years ago where I'm telling him that I can't write him a letter to his welfare caseworker lying about our son's custody, that I think what he's doing is only going to bring him down, and in the end it's not going to help him. I reported the fraud, by the way. 3 times, starting in fall of 2010.

My train of thought is this:"This man will manipulate & exploit anyone, including his own children, to get what he wants".

My train of thought in defense of my parenting skills are as follows: I have been completely engaged in our son's (have to practice saying "our" son!) development. I have a safe suburban home, with a yard, a nice neighborhood, great school system, a sibling he is very attached to, a room mate who he is attached to. I have a support system in my family & friends, they have consistently backed me up when his father has failed (childcare). I initiated our son's EI eval. I have been instrumental in helping him make huge progress in 8 months to the point where he may no longer qualify for services, when he had a 25% cognitive delay last summer (I have an email from the case manager telling me that our son has made tremendous progress, and that my hard work has been instrumental). I could go on.

What am I missing? In your experience, what does the court care about? I have been the primary caregiver. I have been actively trying to engage Dad for 3 years. I haven't excluded him, ever. I haven't been violent to Dad, he claims otherwise, but I know he has no proof because it didn't happen.

Dad's exceptions to the court recommendation included "her house is cold, it's a shared property, she's unstable, I want more time with my son, I think she should have to do all the driving cause I don't have gas to drive to her house, I think custody should be shared at least". I'm paraphrasing, but that's basically it.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
You really need to spend some time reading the forums here.

You've been at this for a few months now - it's really, seriously, time to focus.

:)
 

punchcard

Member
"Will the evidence that he was fraudulently collecting welfare using our child have an impact? Will his federal student grant fraud? He applied for motorcycle loans several places using his father's personal info. He uses his older children's personal info to gain services & goods."
> It may help lower his child support obligations to you due to him being in jail or due to his income being significantly lowered since he no longer can earn income via fraud. As for his frauds, they don't seem directly related to how he interacts with his kid. You might be thinking, dad is a crook due to frauds so he should not be around his kid. The courts will look at how dad interacts with the kid and defrauding others isn't how dad interacts with the kid.

"My train of thought is this:"This man will manipulate & exploit anyone, including his own children, to get what he wants". Then, " I'm clearly giving him information, trying to involve him, trying to keep him abreast"
> Why are you trying to involve someone who will manipulate & exploit anyone. Is that in the best interest of your child and representative of good parenting skills. Do you think it represents good parenting judgment? It's not your job to actively push dad into being a dad.

"I have been actively trying to engage Dad for 3 years." and "Seeing as there isn't a legal custody agreement between us ..."
> You are about 2 years and nine months late for a temporary court order on custody/visitation.

"I am conflicted. If I absolutely have to deal with Grandma, I guess I will. However, it's been extremely unsuccessful in the past. Any suggestions"
> Court order, court order, court order. You are not the first person to go through child custody and the courts have a order to cover everything that can happen. You just need to request them from the court. The court orders will instruct you and dad on how to act in all situations without a need for Grandma's intervention. Dad can choose to follow the court order or not. If he doesn't follow them, then it's not your job to force him to.

"Leaving my son without either of his parents for a week"
> Consider getting a right of first option of childcare court order to where if dad plans to leave the kid with grandma or someone else for four (4) hours or more while the child is in his custody, he has to give you a first opportunity to care for the child before letting grandma or that other person take care of him (but the order should exclude regular childcare needed when a parent is working.)

"He smelled of smoke when I picked him up today"
> Consider getting a no exposure to tobacco smoke order to where the child will not be exposed to secondhand cigarette smoke while in the home, car, or other confined area of the other parent.

"He also did not administer any of the antibiotic my son was prescribed last week"
> Consider getting a health care order to where both parents are required to administer any prescribed medications for the child.

"Grandma called me tonight freaking out that I only packed one diaper for my son."
> Consider getting a child's clothing and belongings order to where each parent will maintain clothing and belongings (diapers, toothpaste, toothbrush, hairbrush, shampoo, etc.) for the child so that the child does not have to participate in the time share exchanges with additional clothing or belongings and where the child will be returned to the other parent with the clothing and other belongings the child had when the child arrived.

"His attorney told me that he will not communicate with me in regard to our son:
> Consider getting a communications order between parents order to where the parents will communicate directly with each other on matters concerning the child and may not use the child or the grandparents as a messenger between them.

"I think she should have to do all the driving cause I don't have gas to drive to her house"
> Consider getting a transportation and exchanges order to where transportation shall be shared equally by the parents in that the party receiving physical custody of the child or a third party of mutual agreement is to provide the transportation for the visit where drop-off/pickup of the child will be at the place of the residence of the parent relinquishing custody and where the child will be driven only by a licensed and insured driver in a lawful vehicle that includes legal child restraint devices.

There's a whole bunch more of these typical court orders in the Family Law Group forms at
http://www.courts.ca.gov/forms.htm

Look through those forms and figure out which orders might be good in your situation and then consider using the language of those orders for your situation.

Grandma won't let you speak with the kid on the phone? Consider getting a telephone/mail/email communications with the child order. Dad telling the kids all about the divorce proceedings? Consider getting a no inappropriate discussions or exposure to family law matter court order. Dad making negative comments about you to kid? Consider getting a neither parent will make or allow others to make negative, disparaging, or derogatory comments about the other parent within hearing distance of the child. Dad moved and won't tell you where he lives? Consider getting notification of parent's current address court order. Dad not showing up for visitation? Consider getting a missed regularly scheduled physical custody time. Dad canceling visitation on hour before the visitation time? Consider getting a canceled parenting time court order requiring at least 24 hours notice of any change in the physical time share schedule. Dad scheduling kids soccer during your custody time? Consider getting a scheduled activities court order. Dad drinking or druggin around kid? Consider getting a no alcohol or substance abuse within four (4) hours prior to or during the child custody. Dad's got guns? Consider getting a firearms court order requiring him to put the guns in a locked container when the kids is around.
 
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Dad called last night and said he wants to drop the exceptions to the court recommended order. He also wanted me to agree to reducing support by 50%. I didn't agree, and I am unsure if he will actually drop the exceptions.

Our pretrial is scheduled for the 20th of March. Can he just drop them? Do we still have to go before the judge if he wants to drop them? He seems to think he can just go to the courthouse and drop it and that's the end of it.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Dad called last night and said he wants to drop the exceptions to the court recommended order. He also wanted me to agree to reducing support by 50%. I didn't agree, and I am unsure if he will actually drop the exceptions.

Our pretrial is scheduled for the 20th of March. Can he just drop them? Do we still have to go before the judge if he wants to drop them? He seems to think he can just go to the courthouse and drop it and that's the end of it.

He can certainly file to dismiss his suit or withdraw any motions he filed, but whether or not he can make the case go completely away depends on what you have filed.
 
I am on the edge of my seat, so to speak. Dad just texted me @ 10am telling me that we don't have to show up in court, and that the judge's people will be contacting my lawyer...I am so hopeful that this is over. The hearing is tomorrow. I am hoping that we don't even have to go tomorrow, but until my attorney tells me I don't have to, I'll be there. I am in absolute disbelieve!

I am thinking that once he received the pre-trial memorandum from my attorney, he decided to give up. Every single hearing we've been to, he's been yelled at, threatened to be put into a holding cell, or just plain kicked out. He says he feels "attacked". The pre-trial memo listed myself, him, his ex-wife, our son's head day care teacher, & both of our son's therapists as witnesses, and cited the daycare records, therapy records, the custody proceedings from his ex-wife & his dispute, and the CYS records from his older children as exhibits. I am so, so thankful that he isn't pursuing this any further. I just submitted an application for a $5k personal loan to fund this trial. I was willing to spend money forever trying to maintain the status quo, but I am so glad that I don't have to dig myself a huge hole. I have a home, I was considering remortgaging to get a line of credit. This has been a harrowing experience.

And I thank you all for all of your help. I know I haven't been a favorite, but seriously, it doesn't even matter. I have gotten a tremendous amount of info & even just some emotional reinforcement from this forum.

Thanks!!!!!
 

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