Water Usage & Plumbing

[Mr. Nice]

What is the name of your state? New Jersey.

My landlord is responsible for paying for water. My lease does not forbid the use of a low-volume portable washing machine. We have such a machine and have been using it for over a year.

My landlord initially claimed the washer violated the lease. I think he's relented. Now he claims that the water usage of the washer is unacceptable and that it creates a strain on the sewage system and has resulted in flooding in the basement.

My questions:

1. Is his story plausible? He has a history of changing arguments at his convenience. Who could I talk to in order to get more perspective on this?

2. Is there any regulation in NJ that dictates how much sewage per person an apartment should handle? I don't feel that we're using an unreasonable amount of water since the lesae does not prohibit the washing machine. His building should be constructed to handle reasonable amounts of usage and if it can't he shouldn't be able to force me to give up the washer.

3. Any recommendations on where I can go to learn more?

 

[BL]

What is the name of your state? New Jersey.

My landlord is responsible for paying for water. My lease does not forbid the use of a low-volume portable washing machine. We have such a machine and have been using it for over a year.

My landlord initially claimed the washer violated the lease. I think he's relented. Now he claims that the water usage of the washer is unacceptable and that it creates a strain on the sewage system and has resulted in flooding in the basement.

My questions:

1. Is his story plausible? He has a history of changing arguments at his convenience. Who could I talk to in order to get more perspective on this?

2. Is there any regulation in NJ that dictates how much sewage per person an apartment should handle? I don't feel that we're using an unreasonable amount of water since the lesae does not prohibit the washing machine. His building should be constructed to handle reasonable amounts of usage and if it can't he shouldn't be able to force me to give up the washer.

3. Any recommendations on where I can go to learn more?

Well , is it flooding the basement ?

 

[Mr. Nice]

Well , is it flooding the basement ?

There was some leaking from above the basement apartment but it appears to have been fixed.

The issue is whether it is plausible that water usage would cause problems to a sewage system AND whether this is something that the building should be capable of handling.

Is a leak into the basement plausibly caused by excess water usage if the building is in good repair?

 

[BL]

There was some leaking from above the basement apartment but it appears to have been fixed.

The issue is whether it is plausible that water usage would cause problems to a sewage system AND whether this is something that the building should be capable of handling.

Is a leak into the basement plausibly caused by excess water usage if the building is in good repair?

You have to realize something .

If it's an older building , sewage pipes will eventually fill up with crud , narrowing the flow .

Also , I'm familiar with those portable washing machines , and depending what drains you are emptying the water in , it can be too much for the drain to handle at once .

So , if that's the case , and the washer is causing water leaks , overflows ,whatever , you are creating damage to the LL's property .

A reasonable person would stop , or let a little water out at a time .

 

[Mr. Nice]

If it's an older building , sewage pipes will eventually fill up with crud , narrowing the flow .

Also , I'm familiar with those portable washing machines , and depending what drains you are emptying the water in , it can be too much for the drain to handle at once .

So , if that's the case , and the washer is causing water leaks , overflows ,whatever , you are creating damage to the LL's property .

A reasonable person would stop , or let a little water out at a time .

The water drains into the bath tub and the unit uses less water than a bath would (in total... and much less for each rinse cycle between which there is a time to drain). If the pipes cannot handle bath water then the landlord should fix the pipes.

From what you've said, it doesn't sound like it's the fault of the washer. Thank you.

 

[OHlandlord]

The water drains into the bath tub and the unit uses less water than a bath would (in total... and much less for each rinse cycle between which there is a time to drain)

How many loads of laundry are you doing each week? (On the same day?) That's a lot of extra water going down the sewage pipes These will back up when they have become full. This would be like taking bath after bath in the unit. If the unit was not equiped with washer & dryer hookups, the plumbing may not be designed for this. No one may have expected tub after tub of water to go down the drain when the house was built, especially if it is an old house. Even if the inside pipe isn't encrusted with mineral deposits over time, those pipes may not be the same sizes as ones commonly used today. I'd let that water out of the washer in small amounts over a period of time, so it would drain well. If you cause a backup and it damages the property, you will be responsible for it. The property was not rented to you with a washer hookup. And it doesn't look as if you got permission to hook this up before you started using it.

BTW, if it is that the pipes aren't designed to handle this, the "fix" is that he's got to rip open walls and floors to install larger diameter pipes. I have ripped open the walls, ceilings, & floors of an old house to have it replumbed to meet code. It is a huge job. Older houses are usually grandfathered in so they don't have to meet the new codes. But since I wanted to install another bathroom in this old house, I needed to be able to have it pass new code inspection. You don't want this work going on while you live there. That will be inconvenient, dirty, (and yes) smelly.

 

[Mr. Nice]

How many loads of laundry are you doing each week? (On the same day?) That's a lot of extra water going down the sewage pipes These will back up when they have become full. This would be like taking bath after bath in the unit. If the unit was not equiped with washer & dryer hookups, the plumbing may not be designed for this. No one may have expected tub after tub of water to go down the drain when the house was built, especially if it is an old house. Even if the inside pipe isn't encrusted with mineral deposits over time, those pipes may not be the same sizes as ones commonly used today. I'd let that water out of the washer in small amounts over a period of time, so it would drain well. If you cause a backup and it damages the property, you will be responsible for it. The property was not rented to you with a washer hookup. And it doesn't look as if you got permission to hook this up before you started using it.

BTW, if it is that the pipes aren't designed to handle this, the "fix" is that he's got to rip open walls and floors to install larger diameter pipes. I have ripped open the walls, ceilings, & floors of an old house to have it replumbed to meet code. It is a huge job. Older houses are usually grandfathered in so they don't have to meet the new codes. But since I wanted to install another bathroom in this old house, I needed to be able to have it pass new code inspection. You don't want this work going on while you live there. That will be inconvenient, dirty, (and yes) smelly.

We do few loads a week and do not do them all on the same day. And we do not do them during the peak water usage periods of the day. As I mentioned, it uses less water than a bath. The lease does not prohibit a portable washer and so permission was not necessary. The lease is otherwise clear on what requires the landlord's consent.

If there is any damage it sounds like it's due to inadequate maintenance or a building that has not been properly modernized. I am not responsible for that. If the pipes cannot handle an additional bath or two of water usage (which could easily be the case if we had children -- permitted by the lease --, bathed more often instead of showering, or running the dish washer more frequently). We have not put extraordinary strains on the system in total and are not responsible if the system cannot handle reasonable amounts of water. That is neither purposeful damage or even negligence.

Thank you for the information.

Is there only landlords on this site?

 

[LindaP777]

We have not put extraordinary strains on the system in total and are not responsible if the system cannot handle reasonable amounts of water. That is neither purposeful damage or even negligence.

I love it when the OP comes ready with the answer already in his pocket!

Is there only landlords on this site?

Nope. Landlords, lawyers and other folks who know about real estate issues.
I feel the love . . .

 

[BL]

Does the basement flood during emptying bathtub(s) , or for any other reasons besides using the washer ?

 

[xylene]

I love it when the OP comes ready with the answer already in his pocket!

It was called a Q and A. The landlord is blowing smoke because they botched the lease and hate paying the water bill.

I'm pretty pro-tenant, but one has to be a real amateur to not have a prohibition on washing appliances when the tenant doesn't pay water. Thats like in the first chapter of every landlord guidebook.

 

[reggiebob]

If you want your washer why don't you offer the LL an additional amount of $$ probably uses less than $20 a month. This way you can do your laundry and he can pay his water bill?? Just an idea...I think a judge would agree that the washer was an addition not anticipated by the LL when the lease was signed. If you commute by helicopter back and forth to work just because it doesn't say no helicopter parking doesn't mean you can!! LOL

**** some things are just assumed*****

 

[xylene]

If you want your washer why don't you offer the LL an additional amount of $$ probably uses less than $20 a month. This way you can do your laundry and he can pay his water bill?? Just an idea...I think a judge would agree that the washer was an addition not anticipated by the LL when the lease was signed. If you commute by helicopter back and forth to work just because it doesn't say no helicopter parking doesn't mean you can!! LOL

**** some things are just assumed*****

Nice incorrect advice.

The law is short on making assumptions.

And your spurious analogy doesn't change anything.

MANY (I'd venture nearly all) leases prohibit washing appliances when the landlord pays water.

The landlord made a MISTAKE and now gets to eat it.

Now, negotiating terms might help make sure the landlord wants to renew on favorable terms... but thats another issue entirely.

 

[You Are Guilty]

MANY (I'd venture nearly all) leases prohibit washing appliances when the landlord pays water.

And in those even when the tenant pays water. In addition to the increased water usage, another concern is the lint/dirt/debris that's released into the building's plumbing system.

The landlord made a MISTAKE and now gets to eat it.

Quite possibly, but you never know what mysteries lurk in people's leases.

 

[reggiebob]

To start, I didn't advise anything I merely suggested he might try to negotiate a compromise with the LL. Oh and by the way I pay all water and sewage bills and unfortunately my contracts don't say anything about washers or dishwasher so you shouldn't assume that most do I doubt most do. It had never crossed my mind...now I'm hoping it doesn't!! Everything I said is just my opinion which doesn't lawfully in this case mean much... just like your opinion doesn't mean much either. LOL

 

[Mr. Nice]

Does the basement flood during emptying bathtub(s) , or for any other reasons besides using the washer ?

Excellent point. Thank you.

The leaking (not flooding) cannot be tied to any specific water usage: bathing; dishwasher; washing machine; washing my hands. Or even our apartment. Who knows how much water others were using. I'll also look into whether it was rainy during the times when leaks were alleged.