Outdated Electrical in new rental.

[Ridddle]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NJ

I recently moved and the LL gave me permission to have an electrician install a ceiling fan in the bedrooms (they have light fixtures but no fans). Anyway the electrician came today and told me the wiring is outdated, not up to code, and can catch fire any moment. He claims instead of plastic covers the wires are covered it is some type of fabric. He advised me NOT to install the ceiling fans so out of fear of starting a fire I didn't. After I called my Insurance company to make sure my renters policy was all in order and active, I tried to do a google search to find out where can I find out for sure if the electrical is okay. I don't think the electrician would lie to me, he didn't charge me since he didn't finish so what does he have to gain. However other tenants have ceiling fans and the place hasn't sparked yet so maybe he overreacted, I don't know I am not an electrician. Does anyone know if there is a website/department/agency that handles this?

In case it matters for your answer I don't know the age of the building but it is at least 25 years old (the oldest tenant here has been living here 25 years and told me the building has been in the family for years), the LL lives in FL and has never lived here, the building has 4 apts total, and the power goes out a lot.

 

[justalayman]

well, the first thing I would do is get an electrician that knows something about the trade. I cannot definitively tell you the type of wire you have but is sounds like NM (non-metallic) insulated wire commonly known as Romex. Romex made in the 50's and 60's used a fabric covering overall with a thermoplastic insulation of the wires themselves.
there would be 3 conductors within the fabric wrap.


if it is much older than that and single conductor; you would be speaking of what is known as knob and tube wiring.


there is nothing inherently dangerous about either style of wiring or wire. Either could be dangerous is the insulation has degraded to a point where it no longer performs as designed but that is less common than one would think.


by the guess of the age, I would say it is most likely the Romex wire.


get another electrician that knows his ass from a hole in the ground. The one you got, while he could be correct about the over all condition of the wiring (although I doubt it) the fact he had no idea that fabric covered Romex was a recognized and accepted type of wire shows he has no idea what he is talking about.


Now, as to the power going out often; THAT needs to be addressed. I can list several reasons that would be considered a dangerous situation and needs to be addressed but I would stay away from the last guy you called.

anyway, to answer your question: yes, your local building department would be in charge of building inspections for this type of infrastructure.

 

[Cvillecpm]

You need a CARPENTER to install a ceiling fan - not an ELECTRICIAN - a carpenter can block and make sure it is supported properly IN THE CEILING - connecting the electrical/wires is easy....I've done it.

You are borrowing trouble....find a repairman/handyman who has probably installed hundreds of fans and have them do it...don't pay more than $100 since you already have the fan

 

[ecmst12]

If the wiring is older, it's probably not as easy to hook up as you think.

 

[izzie01]

In my city (minneapolis, mn) the Fire Marshall makes occasional checks of businesses and rental units. Has a inspection been done lately? If it is a fire hazard and not up to code I would think the landlord would need to fix the situation. Or is it just not up to code for installing a fan? Maybe the other units with fans installed them themselves, hopefully correctly, but maybe done before a building code was changed. Are there fuses or breaker switches? Remember the fire hazards people has with aluminum wiring? A lot of houses burnt to the ground with the aluminum wiring. Maybe contact your city and ask about fire marshal inspections.

When I had windows replaced the building permit required me to install smoke detectors in each bedroom (we only had one in hallway)and co2 monitors. The code had changed so this was required to pass the the inspection. Codes change all the time so maybe it just hasn't come up yet with your city/county/state

 

[Alaska landlord]

I would strongly suggest you leave inspectors out of this. Landlords don’t appreciate it when a tenant is willing to bring about the possibility of expensive but often unnecessary costly alterations to the landlord's property.

If you pulled an inspection on me, I would not be renewing your lease and would be rescinding my permission for the hanging of the ceiling fan.

 

[imbarbara66]

I would strongly suggest you leave inspectors out of this. Landlords don’t appreciate it when a tenant is willing to bring about the possibility of expensive but often unnecessary costly alterations to the landlord's property.

If you pulled an inspection on me, I would not be renewing your lease and would be rescinding my permission for the hanging of the ceiling fan.

What is with you Alaska Landord? You are definetly anti tenant and not even reasonable. If wiring is outdated and possibly not up to code, wouldn't you prefer it be corrected to insure the safety of your tenants? And, if your tenants drew this to your attention and you ignored the problem and the apartment building burned down to the ground and god forbid lives were lost, you'd certainly have more on your plate to worry about then renewing someones lease. If the wiring is up to code and poses no danger then there is no harm, but if not and the repairs are expensive and very costly then so be it. It is what it is and the inspector would know, not you. I totally get what your saying but it's not even reasonable to put your rental income over your tenants safety. You would deserve to be reported just like you feel a tenant would deserve to not have his lease renewed if he reported you. Its a dog eat dog world nowadays and just because you own a building doesn't make you god and just like tenants, landlords are a dime a dozen too.

 

[Mass_Shyster]

What is with you Alaska Landord? You are definetly anti tenant and not even reasonable.

Normally, I despise the anti-tenant sentiments that are frequently posted here. However, in this case, I agree with Alaska LL.

Calling in an inspector will create an adversarial relationship where one does not exist now. He WILL find at least a few violations, (like the cop who follows you for five miles).

I suggest getting a second opinion by another electrician. Pick one with some gray hair. If justalayman's hunch is right, there's nothing wrong with the wiring. It's just old.

 

[Zigner]

You need a CARPENTER to install a ceiling fan - not an ELECTRICIAN - a carpenter can block and make sure it is supported properly IN THE CEILING - connecting the electrical/wires is easy....I've done it.

CV - you even get it wrong on NON-LL/T related stuff

ELECTRICIANS install fans all the time - it's part of their job, INCLUDING making sure that the electrical box is appropriately supported.

 

[Alaska landlord]

It doesn’t take a genius to connect the white to white and black to black. At most you would have to decide where to wrap the green. A carpenter is not a bad idea as securing the fan can be an ordeal in older units. Sure, an electrician can do it, but a carpenter can do it just as well and cheaper. Personally a general contractor would be my choice if I were to lazy to do it myself.

 

[Zigner]

It doesn’t take a genius to connect the white to white and black to black. At most you would have to decide where to wrap the green. A carpenter is not a bad idea as securing the fan can be an ordeal in older units. Sure, an electrician can do it, but a carpenter can do it just as well and cheaper. Personally a general contractor would be my choice if I were to lazy to do it myself.

But, a carpenter cannot (legally) do the electrical end of it.

 

[Alaska landlord]

But, a carpenter cannot (legally) do the electrical end of it.

Where does it say a carpenter cannot connect a few wires together? Are you saying that I as the owner cannot legally put a fan in my own property? If I can, then I can also hire someone(anyone) to do it for me.

 

[Zigner]

Where does it say a carpenter cannot connect a few wires together? Are you saying that I as the owner cannot legally put a fan in my own property? If I can, then I can also hire someone(anyone) to do it for me.

Not saying that you can't do it. But I AM saying that the license of the carpenter would not allow him to do it FOR HIRE.

 

[justalayman]

You need a CARPENTER to install a ceiling fan - not an ELECTRICIAN - a carpenter can block and make sure it is supported properly IN THE CEILING - connecting the electrical/wires is easy....I've done it.

You are borrowing trouble....find a repairman/handyman who has probably installed hundreds of fans and have them do it...don't pay more than $100 since you already have the fan

actually, NO, you need an electrician. The box itself supports the fan. There are specific boxes that MUST be used to mount a fan. A carpenter will have no idea what you are talking about if you ask him if the box is "fan rated".


trust me on this cvillecpm. I really do know what I am talking about here.

 

[justalayman]

It doesn’t take a genius to connect the white to white and black to black. At most you would have to decide where to wrap the green. A carpenter is not a bad idea as securing the fan can be an ordeal in older units. Sure, an electrician can do it, but a carpenter can do it just as well and cheaper. Personally a general contractor would be my choice if I were to lazy to do it myself.

what happens if you don't have one white and one black?

and deciding where to "wrap" the green is a matter of being legal or not.

and I already spoke to why an electrician is the proper trade to install the fan.


alaska, you really take the cake. Now you are suggesting the tenant do electrical work in a rental unit. Not only is that most likely illegal, it is foolish for a LL to allow such work be done by an unqualified person.

and no, a carpenter cannot do it just as well. The electrician can legally install the fan, including the wiring and box. A carpenter can't.