Terminated At the Worst Time Possible

[UnhappyCampr]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY

I was terminated from my position today and although it was an honest mistake in my part, I wanted to see if there was even the most minute legal advice that I can get to help my situation.

I would've been working for my "previous" employer for 5 years this March. I've always kept a good track record and met or exceeded quotas 9 out of 12 months. Thinking I was in a pretty solid foundation, my fiance and I decided to start the process of purchasing a home. We've found our property and had contracts drafted. We signed the contract and our attorney told us that we need to submit a 10% down payment.

My fiance is a school teacher and it's pretty difficult for her to run to the bank and have an official check made out to the seller's attorney to put in escrow before the bank closes. The funds are in her bank account and it just so happens to be the bank that I was employed with. Without thinking, I told her that I would be able to get the official check as long as I had her bankcard and her PIN and she gave me permission to do so. I proceeded to make the withdrawal with a teller and had the official check made payable to the attorney. The branch manager came by, ready to sign off on the official check when he noticed that the remitter of the check was not me but instead my fiance. He took me into his office and questioned me as to what I was doing; in which i answered honestly without thinking there was a problem. Needless to say, I was let go this evening, without a warning or a discussion with HR.

Should I have been provided a write up or some kind of formal warning prior to full on termination? This really could not have come at a worst time. Just as we were ready to purchase our dream home, this spiteful, merciless manager destroyed not only my but my family's dream of home ownership.

 

[cbg]

There is no requirement that you receive a write up or any other type of warning before you can be terminated. I'm not seeing any issues with your termination; nor am I seeing anything wrong with the actions of the bank manager.

 

[Silverplum]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY

I was terminated from my position today and although it was an honest mistake in my part, I wanted to see if there was even the most minute legal advice that I can get to help my situation.

I would've been working for my "previous" employer for 5 years this March. I've always kept a good track record and met or exceeded quotas 9 out of 12 months. Thinking I was in a pretty solid foundation, my fiance and I decided to start the process of purchasing a home. We've found our property and had contracts drafted. We signed the contract and our attorney told us that we need to submit a 10% down payment.

My fiance is a school teacher and it's pretty difficult for her to run to the bank and have an official check made out to the seller's attorney to put in escrow before the bank closes. The funds are in her bank account and it just so happens to be the bank that I was employed with. Without thinking, I told her that I would be able to get the official check as long as I had her bankcard and her PIN and she gave me permission to do so. I proceeded to make the withdrawal with a teller and had the official check made payable to the attorney. The branch manager came by, ready to sign off on the official check when he noticed that the remitter of the check was not me but instead my fiance. He took me into his office and questioned me as to what I was doing; in which i answered honestly without thinking there was a problem. Needless to say, I was let go this evening, without a warning or a discussion with HR.

Should I have been provided a write up or some kind of formal warning prior to full on termination? This really could not have come at a worst time. Just as we were ready to purchase our dream home, this spiteful, merciless manager destroyed not only my but my family's dream of home ownership.

I don't see "spite," I see a banker following sensible policy.

 

[UnhappyCampr]

You do not see spite because you haven't gone through what I've gone through these past 6 months. I left out details as to why I feel the manager was described as spiteful but that's besides the point and I'm not here to play the blame game. The assumption that I'm just bitter about the result of this blunder will most likely be made. Bottom line is, based on the responses, I am in the wrong and have no recourse. I take full responsibility for my own actions.

 

[Eekamouse]

You do not see spite because you haven't gone through what I've gone through these past 6 months. I left out details as to why I feel the manager was described as spiteful but that's besides the point and I'm not here to play the blame game. The assumption that I'm just bitter about the result of this blunder will most likely be made. Bottom line is, based on the responses, I am in the wrong and have no recourse. I take full responsibility for my own actions.

Ask yourself this: Would you have okayed this transaction if it was with a stranger who came into your bank? C'mon! Drawing funds out of an account not your own with the account owner nowhere in sight seem okay to you?

 

[UnhappyCampr]

Ask yourself this: Would you have okayed this transaction if it was with a stranger who came into your bank? C'mon! Drawing funds out of an account not your own with the account owner nowhere in sight seem okay to you?

A stranger is a stranger, I work for the bank. My colleagues as well as the manager has met my fiance. Not to mention I have her debit card and the PIN and insisted they give her a call to authorize the transaction. Upon making contact, they could've identified her via the numerous personal questions that we ask our clients whenever they call in for a service issue or basic inquiry on their accounts daily.

 

[Ohiogal]

You do not see spite because you haven't gone through what I've gone through these past 6 months. I left out details as to why I feel the manager was described as spiteful but that's besides the point and I'm not here to play the blame game. The assumption that I'm just bitter about the result of this blunder will most likely be made. Bottom line is, based on the responses, I am in the wrong and have no recourse. I take full responsibility for my own actions.

You basically STOLE money from your fiancé's account. You aren't taking full responsibility for what you did. You are insulting the manager who did the right thing as if to excuse you for being a thief.

 

[STEPHAN]

The bank has for sure a clause that a pin is confidential and should not be given to anybody else.

I am sure they did not like the fact that you violated that.

How should they trust you in future?

 

[cbg]

So they should forgive a major policy violation because you violated it on behalf of a family member instead of a stranger, and it would be inconvenient for you to be fired at this time? I'm sorry, I don't care how bad the relationship is between you and your manager; I would expect ANY bank employee who did what you did to be fired.

 

[PaulMass]

You should file for unemployment immediately.

It's unlikely that you have any recourse against your former employer.

You fiance may. She asked a bank employee to obtain a certified check from her account, and the bank fired that employee and may have breached their fiduciary duty to her in the meantime. Her damages would be due to the failure to deliver the check, not due to your termination. Hopefully she has closed her account, and told them in no uncertain terms why it has been closed.

Since you are no longer employed, the certified check is likely no longer needed. Talk to your real estate attorney to see if you can back out of the deal.

Ignore the trolls accusing you of crimes. You had her permission to take the money and did not steal.

 

[Silverplum]

You should file for unemployment immediately.

It's unlikely that you have any recourse against your former employer.

You fiance may. She asked a bank employee to obtain a certified check from her account, and the bank fired that employee and may have breached their fiduciary duty to her in the meantime. Her damages would be due to the failure to deliver the check, not due to your termination. Hopefully she has closed her account, and told them in no uncertain terms why it has been closed.

Since you are no longer employed, the certified check is likely no longer needed. Talk to your real estate attorney to see if you can back out of the deal.

Ignore the trolls accusing you of crimes. You had her permission to take the money and did not steal.

None of us are "trolls."

 

[LdiJ]

You basically STOLE money from your fiancé's account. You aren't taking full responsibility for what you did. You are insulting the manager who did the right thing as if to excuse you for being a thief.

I disagree with this. He did a major violation of bank policy and deserved to be fired for that, but he did not steal or attempt to steal anything, because he had full authorization from his fiancée.

 

[commentator]

It sounds as though the spiteful merciless manager may have been out to get this poster. That's not illegal. Our employers and supervisors are not there to help us fulfill our dreams of home ownership or anything else.

The OP handed said manager a freebie, a "Please, take this perfectly legal and wonderful reason to fire me for a dramatic violation of company policy, since you want to anyhow." (And probably not have me qualify for unemployment benefits, either).

For minor violations of "the rules" as they apply at your particular place of business, it is usual to give warnings and write ups before termination. However, there is no labor law that requires that a company do so. You live in an "at will" state, and you can be fired at will by your employer. Your only recourse at this point and in this situation is to file for unemployment insurance benefits. They will look at the reason for your termination and make a determination if the employer had a valid work related misconduct reason to terminate you. Then either party can appeal this determination.

If the violation was egregious enough in the eyes of the unemployment system, it is classified as "gross misconduct" which means something so wrong that the employee did not need to be warned, even once, that they were NOT to ever do this, that a reasonable person would have known that doing this, even once without being warned would likely result in their termination. Classic examples of this are stealing money from the employer, punching out a co-worker, setting the workplace on fire, etc. No unemployment is forthcoming in that type of situation.

This one is sort of on the fence, as the employee does a brilliant job of poor me-ing and playing completely innocent of any expectation that this could be a problem or that it was not acceptable to do this because both parties were known to everyone and he was making no secret of what he was doing. He did, after all, give the deal to the manager for approval without any effort to conceal his actions or seeming expectation that it wouldn't be appropriate. The unemployment adjudicator would probably probe in the direction of what the company's policies were, what others had done in the past (had the OP ever seen anyone else do a transaction of this type for a family member or friend?) and what was said during the termination.

But I suspect that the OP knew totally and fully, exactly what the rules were, what the deal with doing this was, and he wrongly assumed it would be all right for him to do it anyway, since, after all, it was his fiancé and everyone who worked there KNEW it was, and knew (supposedly) they're on good terms and she had full knowledge of what was going on. That was dumb on his part, and he says he did it simply because it would have been "inconvenient" for his fiancé to come and get the check herself. Where I come from teachers sometimes are able to get off work sooner than banks close.

The OP works totally from a point of view that the rest of the world should be concerned about his financial situation, his emotional situation, his needs and wants and his and his fiancé's convenience and should be willing to make an exception to very strict bank policy based on "Aw, come on guys! This is me!" He's not so much a criminal, there was probably no criminal intent here, as he's sort of selfish and oblivious to any rules except those that benefit him.

It probably will be possible for them to get out of the house buying deal at present, but they'll certainly lose money. This is unfortunate for them. But this is not the fault of the bank manager. I doubt if the business will be devastated by his fiancé's closing out her account, either. These were the rules. You broke them. Someone who perhaps did not like you anyway enforced the rules as they were supposed to anyway. They did not make a special exception for you.

Unemployment insurance is a maybe. Moving forward a little sadder and wiser is inevitable.

 

[UnhappyCampr]

You should file for unemployment immediately.

It's unlikely that you have any recourse against your former employer.

You fiance may. She asked a bank employee to obtain a certified check from her account, and the bank fired that employee and may have breached their fiduciary duty to her in the meantime. Her damages would be due to the failure to deliver the check, not due to your termination. Hopefully she has closed her account, and told them in no uncertain terms why it has been closed.

Since you are no longer employed, the certified check is likely no longer needed. Talk to your real estate attorney to see if you can back out of the deal.

Ignore the trolls accusing you of crimes. You had her permission to take the money and did not steal.

I disagree with this. He did a major violation of bank policy and deserved to be fired for that, but he did not steal or attempt to steal anything, because he had full authorization from his fianc�e.

Thank you PaulMass, you've been the only member thus far who has been able to offer me advice, reasoning and perhaps even compassion. Others have also provided their feedback (which i respect) but in a nonconstructive and critical manner, that is their right. I wouldn't go as far as calling anyone a troll although one member did make false accusations of theft. I was granted verbal permission to transact on behalf of my fiance BY my fiance but legally speaking this is insufficient on bank grounds and I should've known better.

Are there any ramifications to applying for unemployment and perhaps being denied based on the grounds that they might consider this "gross misconduct" (although I have not received notice that this is the term they're using to justify my termination).

As for recourse, neither I nor my fiance really want to have anything to do with the company any further at this time. The light at the end of the tunnel is that my fiance's salary alone MAY be able to qualify us for the mortgage request. We may have to put a little more on the down payment and sacrifice a pretty good rate but that should not be a problem. Even if we are unable to obtain the mortgage, we have yet to put in any deposit of earnest money nor have the seller's signed the contract. This notorious transaction, as a matter of fact, would have been to complete the contract.

 

[PaulMass]

Are there any ramifications to applying for unemployment and perhaps being denied based on the grounds that they might consider this "gross misconduct"

If you apply for unemployment and are denied for gross misconduct (or any other reason) the results are exactly the same as if you do not apply: You will not receive unemployment benefits.