Reimbursement for expenses

[Ohiogal]

He is 16. Mom has alienated him since he decided to move in with me. He is on probation for juvenile sex offenses and his court ordered counseling is with the closest JSO treatment facility. Part of the anger he has with his mother is in regards to her actions after the discovery of his actions, such as filing for a 5 year restraining order and then getting hysterical in court when the judge did not issue it for the length of time she was asking.

Your sixteen year old is a sex offender and he is angry with mom because mom took precautions against him? Let me guess, she has other children. And he raped/offended against a child. Sorry but junior doesn't get sympathy for that.

 

[Ohiogal]

That's what I was saying in my first post, I went to court yesterday and was told that there are no statutes which apply to reimbursement for transportation to and from medical/mental health appointments. This is where I have an issue:

A mother who has a relationship with her son and has visitation with him, IS responsible for providing half of all transportation.
A mother who has no relationship with her son, for whatever reason, and counselor recommends them not being together, is not financially liable for costs of that same transportation.

So, because mother is not the one giving the ride to counseling, she isnt responsible for he half of the expenses? In this case, isnt that rewarding bad behavior?

Have your child get a job and pay for his own damn counseling. he is the one who committed the crime. Why should HE be rewarded for being a sex offender? Make him pay for the transportation for counseling.

 

[Ohiogal]

Once again, your situation does not relate to mine. Your estimates for fuel expenses might be accurate, I dont know. But that really isnt the only expense. If I have a job where I use my own vehicle, the federal allotment for mileage is $.54 per mile. Multiply that by the 40 miles, that puts my reimbursement at $21.60 per trip, but I am liable for half of that, so she would owe me $10.80 per week for the last 14 months. The is roughly 60 weeks, give or take. That adds up to almost $650 in expenses that my ex has ignored. Add that to the $200 in soccer fees she never paid for, add that to the 2 years of ballet (for our daughter) she never paid for, add that to the thousands she skipped out on in court fees and fines when our son was found guilty that she refused to pay until I had to pay to file papers against her, add that to the last 2 years I have spent driving around and sleeping on couches on the weekends so I could have shared custody of our daughter but our 2 kids cannot be together and I have to find somewhere else to go or send my son. Is the $650 going to make or break me? no. But in a world where everything is supposed to be 50/50, yet allows delinquent parents to get away with technicalities, there needs to be resolve. I am tired of being the one with these children that is always on the end of "we're sorry, there is no statute for that"

Then maybe your son should not have committed a sex crime against -- what -- his sister? Good grief. And yet mom is to blame for not wanting anything to do with him when he is the criminal and should be forced to pay the costs of his crime. Instead you want mom to do so. Make him get a job and pay for the transportation. Don't reward his bad behavior. You are totally bitter. She is protecting your daughter and you have issues with her because she refuses to pay for the court fees and fines of the sex offender. AGAIN, the sex offender should do that. Heck, most courts allow community service to pay off fees or fines. or is your son too much of an innocent angel who can't do manual labor? Again, no pity for him. Make him pay for it.

 

[ducky8888]

May I suggest that you speak with a therapist in order to help you get through your bitterness and need for revenge?

Thanks for the suggestion. Honestly, it's not about revenge. I can sit here and recount the 4 years of lies and manipulation I have put with since the divorce, but you dont wanna hear it and it really isnt going to matter. Yea, I've gotten the shaft over and over and over. Once in a while I have gotten a decision in my favor. What is really at play here is the fact that I get into court and I sit there and listen to the judge state time after time (while listening to other matters, as well as mine) that everything needs to be equal. I like that ideal. That works well with my mindset. My dad says there are 2 colors of crayons in my crayon box, black and white. Fair is fair, and when I hear a system that strives for everything to be equal, whether its balancing household incomes, or medical expenses, or even the amount we drive for custody exchanges, they even have unbiased mediators to mete out holidays and vacation time, there is something wrong when that same system says "we understand and wish we could make it equal for you, but..." there should be no "but".

 

[Zigner]

A mother who has a relationship with her son and has visitation with him, IS responsible for providing half of all transportation.

For visits...we're not talking about visits. Ohiogal is right. The sex offender should be paying for his own transportation.

 

[ducky8888]

Your sixteen year old is a sex offender and he is angry with mom because mom took precautions against him? Let me guess, she has other children. And he raped/offended against a child. Sorry but junior doesn't get sympathy for that.

This isnt about what my son did, this is about his mother's actions. She is 50% liable for his actions, just as I am. But, I have been the one who has been burdened with his behavior, she has done NOTHING. I am not looking for sympathy for my son. You are assuming an awful lot. My son was 13 when he acted inappropriately with his sister. my ex and I have 2 children, and those are the only children for us both. Our daughter was already under an order of protection against him when my ex decided to to get a DVRO for HERSELF, not our daughter, and sat in court and sobbed in front of our son when her application was not granted. This is not the only action she has taken against him, just the only one I have mentioned.

And, for the record, the counselor believes that one cause of his acting out in a sexual manner was caused by his relationship with his mother.

 

[ducky8888]

Have your child get a job and pay for his own damn counseling. he is the one who committed the crime. Why should HE be rewarded for being a sex offender? Make him pay for the transportation for counseling.

Because he is a minor whose parents are responsible for his actions and the consequences of his actions. How has he been rewarded? you have no clue what he was sentenced to and what he has had to do. Maybe you need to look into the law a little better about parents responsibilities when it comes to their children.

 

[Zigner]

Because he is a minor whose parents are responsible for his actions and the consequences of his actions. How has he been rewarded? you have no clue what he was sentenced to and what he has had to do. Maybe you need to look into the law a little better about parents responsibilities when it comes to their children.

You really aren't getting it, which is disappointing (to say the least.)
Let's say that you are right and that you are "responsible" for your child's action (which is not a "given). That doesn't mean that you can't make your child responsible for reimbursing you the costs that you are required to cover because of his crime(s).

Let's change things around a bit. Let's say that your child had been caught attempting to shoplift. The store sends a civil demand (as is their right), and you pay it. You would then turn around and make your child reimburse you. It's really just a matter of parenting.

 

[Zigner]

Because he is a minor whose parents are responsible for his actions and the consequences of his actions.

Wait, are you REALLY suggesting that your sex offender child should suffer no consequences for his actions?

 

[ducky8888]

Then maybe your son should not have committed a sex crime against -- what -- his sister? Good grief. And yet mom is to blame for not wanting anything to do with him when he is the criminal and should be forced to pay the costs of his crime. Instead you want mom to do so. Make him get a job and pay for the transportation. Don't reward his bad behavior. You are totally bitter. She is protecting your daughter and you have issues with her because she refuses to pay for the court fees and fines of the sex offender. AGAIN, the sex offender should do that. Heck, most courts allow community service to pay off fees or fines. or is your son too much of an innocent angel who can't do manual labor? Again, no pity for him. Make him pay for it.

THE SEX OFFENDER IS HER SON!!!! HE IS A MINOR!!! I am not looking for pity for him. If she doesnt pay, then I HAVE to pay. There is a difference between protecting our daughter (which I am also responsible for, much more than she is) and taking responsibility for our son's inappropriate illegal behavior. MOM IS HALF RESPONSIBLE, THE COURT EVEN SAID SO. which is why she was forced to repay half of all court fees and fines, but she only did so after i had to take her to court to force her.

Maybe one piece of the puzzle you should be aware of, our kids lived with their mother primarily (75-80%) for 2.5 years. During that time both kids were in counseling to deal with issues of divorce. After 6 months the counselor refused to see our son because had began showing signs of sexual misbehavior in his mother's home (flashing), and the counselor said that he should see a specialized counselor. Since kids lived primarily with mom, she refused to agree to another counselor, during the fight to get him into counseling again, she repeatedly left him alone to babysit his sister. As I said, all occurrences of abuse happened in his mother's home. She left a hormonal teenage boy with a propensity for inappropriate sexual behavior in charge of a young girl. have all the sympathy you want for his mom, but her actions did nothing to prevent it from happening, and as I said before, the counselor (after seeing him for over a year) has found a basis in his actions relating to his relationship with his mother.

Am i excusing his behavior? absolutely not. but the topic of this thread is not about my son and his actions, it's about the law stating that BOTH parents are 50% liable for their children.

 

[Zigner]

Am i excusing his behavior? absolutely not. but the topic of this thread is not about my son and his actions, it's about the law stating that BOTH parents are 50% liable for their children.

What law is that?

 

[ducky8888]

For visits...we're not talking about visits. Ohiogal is right. The sex offender should be paying for his own transportation.

In court yesterday the judge stated that he could order her to transport him to and from counseling half of the time IF she had visitation with him. So your comment that it is "only for visits" is inaccurate.

This is a matter of law, not opinion. the law says parents are 50% liable for their children, it doesnt say they are only 50% liable if the children are well behaved. If anything, the parent who's home the offense occurred in should be the one primarily liable.

 

[ducky8888]

You really aren't getting it, which is disappointing (to say the least.)
Let's say that you are right and that you are "responsible" for your child's action (which is not a "given). That doesn't mean that you can't make your child responsible for reimbursing you the costs that you are required to cover because of his crime(s).

Let's change things around a bit. Let's say that your child had been caught attempting to shoplift. The store sends a civil demand (as is their right), and you pay it. You would then turn around and make your child reimburse you. It's really just a matter of parenting.

You are correct, that comes to a matter of parenting. that is not what we are discussing here. This is not a parenting forum. I cannot force my son to get a job. I can restrict him, take things away, not allow fun things, etc. I cannot force him to make money and reimburse me. Even if he were to get a job, who is responsible for getting him to and from his employment? he wont be earning enough to pay for his own car, we dont live in an area rampant with teenage employers, so once again the onus is on me. Why should reimbursing me for transportation to and from court ordered counseling add another layer of responsibility on me? Sure, then I have him reimburse me for that travel as well. What about his shifts that occur when I am at my job? In a perfect world, yes, him getting a job and assisting in the expenses he has incurred would be ideal, but then again, in a perfect world we wouldnt be in this situation at all.

There is also a fine balance with a child who has mental health issues and is in legal trouble. I am a single working father. I cannot babysit my 16 year old 24/7. I get zero respite, and I must balance time with my daughter as well. This falls back to who is legally responsible? Ignore the possibility that he SHOULD assist in repayment. That isnt possible at this point. He isnt legally responsible to do so. right?

 

[ducky8888]

What law is that?

Lets start with California Civil Code section 1714.1

 

[Silverplum]

Your "black or white ONLY" viewpoint doesn't serve you well. Grow up and move on.

You've wasted $60 of MY time complaining about losing a small amount of money in court. The matter is closed. You lost.