Child support hearing Tuesday

[usaohol]

What is the name of your state? Florida

My brother has a child support hearing on Tuesday and I would like to ask a few so he doesn't go in there blindly. He is stubborn, well more like a fool and thinks he will do just fine without an attorney.

He and his ex were not married, together 8 years and have one child a 7 year old son. They lived together until 2 years ago. Ex filed for child support when he moved in with new girlfriend in July. He had signed at hospital re paternity and is on birth ceritificate.
There is no current child support or visitation order.

1. On financial statements ex claims that she spends 250.00 wk on food for child, I am quite certain that she is not spending this much on one child, will the judge possibly factor in that this is a bit unreasonable?

2. She claims to have no income, and failed to include a business that she owns and the income derived from it on her financial? Would it look bad on him if he brings that up?

3. She is claiming day care expenses, the child does not go to day care, after school care or even a babysitter, will she have to prove that this was paid? Or can he request that she provide proof she paid any child care?

4. She has requested FROR, and the papers state that when the child does have visitation he only be with father, so does this mean that my nephew could not come spend time with me and his cousins unless his father were there?

5. She is requesting 2500.00 a month in child support from my brother,based on inflated expenses and expenses she does not have. I am not trying to find a way to help him pay as little as possible so please don't think that.
Currently he pays her 1000.00 a month and pays for his sons clothes, school supplies and sports activities etc.. My brother makes sure that my nephew has everything he needs and wants as my kids would say he is spoiled.

6. She is asking for an amount that would cover living expenses for both her and the child. My brothers income was 45000 last year. I am not sure what hers was. If she goes into court saying she has no income, (and she is also working for her family so she has income) is it possible the judge could make her pay all her living expenses?

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? Florida

My brother has a child support hearing on Tuesday and I would like to ask a few so he doesn't go in there blindly. He is stubborn, well more like a fool and thinks he will do just fine without an attorney.

He and his ex were not married, together 8 years and have one child a 7 year old son. They lived together until 2 years ago. Ex filed for child support when he moved in with new girlfriend in July. He had signed at hospital re paternity and is on birth ceritificate.
There is no current child support or visitation order.

1. On financial statements ex claims that she spends 250.00 wk on food for child, I am quite certain that she is not spending this much on one child, will the judge possibly factor in that this is a bit unreasonable?

2. She claims to have no income, and failed to include a business that she owns and the income derived from it on her financial? Would it look bad on him if he brings that up?

3. She is claiming day care expenses, the child does not go to day care, after school care or even a babysitter, will she have to prove that this was paid? Or can he request that she provide proof she paid any child care?

4. She has requested FROR, and the papers state that when the child does have visitation he only be with father, so does this mean that my nephew could not come spend time with me and his cousins unless his father were there?

5. She is requesting 2500.00 a month in child support from my brother,based on inflated expenses and expenses she does not have. I am not trying to find a way to help him pay as little as possible so please don't think that.
Currently he pays her 1000.00 a month and pays for his sons clothes, school supplies and sports activities etc.. My brother makes sure that my nephew has everything he needs and wants as my kids would say he is spoiled.

6. She is asking for an amount that would cover living expenses for both her and the child. My brothers income was 45000 last year. I am not sure what hers was. If she goes into court saying she has no income, (and she is also working for her family so she has income) is it possible the judge could make her pay all her living expenses?

Basically, when it comes down to child support neither parent's expenses are going to be taken into consideration. Child support is going to be based on state guidelines. The only expenses that will factor in are daycare and health insurance.

Its appropriate to include daycare in the equation, because an income should be imputed to her, therefore daycare should also be imputed. Obviously, whether she realizes it or not, she is going to have to get a job. She is not going to get enough child support from your brother, at his income level, to fully support her household.

If she has income she is not including, then your brother needs to prove that.

 

[SingleMom67]

Sorry, I think I fell off my chair when I read that the ex is asking for $2500 a month in child support (especially after seeing that your brother only makes $45K)!!! Wow. It's women like her who make single moms like me look bad.

Now to answer your questions, I personally believe it's never wise to go in to a courtroom without an attorney. No matter how tight finances are, it's money well spent. Having said that, if you can't get your brother to hire an attorney, at least one of you two run a child support calculator on-line. Child support is based on income with a few other factors taken in to account such as costs of medical insurance and daycare.

To further answer, in order of your questions:

(1) The fact that the ex is saying it costs $250 a week won't even be considered at all. The judge/conference officer will run figures based on income, imputing at the very least a minimum wage income on the ex. BOTH parents are responsible for financially supporting their child(ren).

(2) No, it won't look bad for your brother to bring up her business. However, he should be demanding that she show at least three years back tax returns to get an accurate figure of her earnings (and/or her potential for income).

(3) Daycare can be quite tricky. The court's requirements stipulate that you just need to bring in verifiable proof of using daycare. However, being on the opposite side, I see this as a loop hole. All I have to do is present a letter (which serves as verification) from the provider of what I pay her each week. Now I'm an honest person so the letter matches what I pay, but they've never verified it, never called the lady, never requested proof of payment, nothing. So, if people out there are less than honest, I see this as potentially being a HUGE problem. What if you have a family friend or relative that is willing to lie about what the cost is? In any event, this is where an attorney would make sure this figure (if the ex even uses a daycare at all) is accurate.

(4) This comment confused me just a bit in the sense that child support and child visitation hearings typically aren't heard together. They're separate matters, heard at separate times. So which hearing is your brother having next week? Again, he needs an attorney to fight to allow for someone within his family to watch the child on his parenting time.

(5) I already commented on her pipe dream of $2500 a month. Personally, I think he's overpaying at $1,000 a month based on his income and the fact that it's only one child. Secondly, absent a court order, he need not have paid her a thing let alone extras for clothes, school supplies, etc. Good man for doing that.

(6) Again, child support is for the child; not to support mother and child. Any judge will see that and at least impute an income for the ex.

 

[usaohol]

You are so right

"Sorry, I think I fell off my chair when I read that the ex is asking for $2500 a month in child support (especially after seeing that your brother only makes $45K)!!! Wow. It's women like her who make single moms like me look bad. "

I agree,

"Now to answer your questions, I personally believe it's never wise to go in to a courtroom without an attorney. No matter how tight finances are, it's money well spent. Having said that, if you can't get your brother to hire an attorney, at least one of you two run a child support calculator on-line. Child support is based on income with a few other factors taken in to account such as costs of medical insurance and daycare. "

I agree about the attorney, but he is a fool sometimes. I ran the calculator with what we estimate her actual income is and he would be paying much less. Guess that would be her bad eh?

To further answer, in order of your questions:

(1) The fact that the ex is saying it costs $250 a week won't even be considered at all. The judge/conference officer will run figures based on income, imputing at the very least a minimum wage income on the ex. BOTH parents are responsible for financially supporting their child(ren)."

Good to hear this, because I know there is no way she can be spending that much on food for him

(2) No, it won't look bad for your brother to bring up her business. However, he should be demanding that she show at least three years back tax returns to get an accurate figure of her earnings (and/or her potential for income).

He owns an accounting office and has all her tax returns corporate and personal up until last year, we are thinking that she signed over everything to her dad prior to filing. Maybe he should bring the returns from prior years to show that she did have the earning potential.
He should probably also go online and get a copy of the corporation change, and bring that with him.

(3) Daycare can be quite tricky. The court's requirements stipulate that you just need to bring in verifiable proof of using daycare. However, being on the opposite side, I see this as a loop hole. All I have to do is present a letter (which serves as verification) from the provider of what I pay her each week. Now I'm an honest person so the letter matches what I pay, but they've never verified it, never called the lady, never requested proof of payment, nothing. So, if people out there are less than honest, I see this as potentially being a HUGE problem. What if you have a family friend or relative that is willing to lie about what the cost is? In any event, this is where an attorney would make sure this figure (if the ex even uses a daycare at all) is accurate.

This is what I am sure she is going to do, say she paid her sister cash and provide cash rcpts, can he request that sister provide copy of tax return to see if it was claimed on her taxes? Then sister would have to come clean or be in trouble with taxman.

(4) This comment confused me just a bit in the sense that child support and child visitation hearings typically aren't heard together. They're separate matters, heard at separate times. So which hearing is your brother having next week? Again, he needs an attorney to fight to allow for someone within his family to watch the child on his parenting time.

He said that the papers he rcvd and responded to addressed both issues of child support and visitation.
He has since filed for joint custody.

(5) I already commented on her pipe dream of $2500 a month. Personally, I think he's overpaying at $1,000 a month based on his income and the fact that it's only one child. Secondly, absent a court order, he need not have paid her a thing let alone extras for clothes, school supplies, etc. Good man for doing that.

I think she just did herself a disservice.

(6) Again, child support is for the child; not to support mother and child. Any judge will see that and at least impute an income for the ex

Good I wasn't sure if she went in there saying she is not working if that would impact it.

 

[corset]

child support hearing tuesday

your brother sounds like my husband, fools, tell your brother to get himself a good lawyer, and start dugging about her income, and for the amount of money she is asking for, omg she can ask for the stars and the moon but she wont get it. good luck and dont wait

 

[NotSoNew]

i am nervous for people who go into child support hearings without attorneys!!

please if they dont impute and income on his ex, he must iNSIST ON it, here in NJ they won't do it if you dont insist on it. make her come up with the three years of tax returns like someone else suggested. and also make sure your brother knows child support and visitation are completly seperate and he must file for visiation if he has not already.

and 2500 a month, she is def. smoking some crack. they go by the guidelines, and not by whatever she dreams up!

 

[nextwife]

OMG!!!! She thinks that she deserves a TAX FREE income of $30,000 a year just for having a child in her home, when the dad only makes what he makes?

I live in a pricey suburb, I pay a mortgage, property taxes and a good part of the support for my daughter, and don't spend near $30,000 a year on just the ADDED cost of her now being in the household.

What is she feeding this kid for $250/week? Baluga caviar on toast?

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Your brother is already paying more than the standard level of child support for 1 child in FL, baed on his net income alone without any other factors to offset the child support.

Your brother should respond to the petition. If mom is claiming no income, she may be held responsible for at least minimum wage, however if she is not currently claiming any income, then why would she need childcare? THere is nothing wrong pointing out the facts. While her household may spend $250 weekly, it doesn't cost that much to feed a child and the expected expense is already calculated in the formula for child support. If this is a child in school, childcare should be minimal. Both parties can ask for FROR.

 

[usaohol]

OMG!!!! She thinks that she deserves a TAX FREE income of $30,000 a year just for having a child in her home, when the dad only makes what he makes?

I live in a pricey suburb, I pay a mortgage, property taxes and a good part of the support for my daughter, and don't spend near $30,000 a year on just the ADDED cost of her now being in the household.

What is she feeding this kid for $250/week? Baluga caviar on toast?

I think that she thinks he has more money than he actually does. He lives in a pricey neighborhood too, but that is because he live with his girlfriend who has money and pays the majority of everything. He owns a business and she thinks the business makes alot of money, but she doesn't realize that when one of the employees left he took lots of clients with him, and notified several others that the business closed and to some that it moved (to his new office) that did tremendous damage and created a big loss.

yeah 250/wk, you would think he was eating caviar, filet mignon and lobster tail every night. My teenager would have trouble eating that much food in a week.

 

[betterthanher]

2. She claims to have no income, and failed to include a business that she owns and the income derived from it on her financial? Would it look bad on him if he brings that up?

He should be submitting to her a "Request To Produce". This is where all of her financials must be submitted.

3. She is claiming day care expenses, the child does not go to day care, after school care or even a babysitter, will she have to prove that this was paid? Or can he request that she provide proof she paid any child care?

If she is not working, there is no need for daycare.

4. She has requested FROR, and the papers state that when the child does have visitation he only be with father, so does this mean that my nephew could not come spend time with me and his cousins unless his father were there?

She has no control over who is with you on YOUR time -- unless that person is a danger to the child and she can prove it.

5. She is requesting 2500.00 a month in child support from my brother,based on inflated expenses and expenses she does not have. I am not trying to find a way to help him pay as little as possible so please don't think that.
Currently he pays her 1000.00 a month and pays for his sons clothes, school supplies and sports activities etc.. My brother makes sure that my nephew has everything he needs and wants as my kids would say he is spoiled.

And it's because of morons like her that guidelines are in place. She's going to be in for a rude awakening. She's going to get a fraction of what he's paying her now. I would love to see the look on her face when her heart stops beating when she gets the support order.

6. She is asking for an amount that would cover living expenses for both her and the child. My brothers income was 45000 last year. I am not sure what hers was. If she goes into court saying she has no income, (and she is also working for her family so she has income) is it possible the judge could make her pay all her living expenses?

She's an idiot...he has no obligation to support her at all. Just ASSIST IN supporting the child.

It's usually a bad idea to go into a support hearing without an attorney. But in his case, he needs to state facts and insist on an income imputing at her skill level. Keep in mind that Judges don't like to veer from the guidelines because they are protecting -- not the child in this state -- but the monetary interest the state has in collecting child support.

 

[usaohol]

He should be submitting to her a "Request To Produce". This is where all of her financials must be submitted.


If she is not working, there is no need for daycare.


She has no control over who is with you on YOUR time -- unless that person is a danger to the child and she can prove it.


And it's because of morons like her that guidelines are in place. She's going to be in for a rude awakening. She's going to get a fraction of what he's paying her now. I would love to see the look on her face when her heart stops beating when she gets the support order.


She's an idiot...he has no obligation to support her at all. Just ASSIST IN supporting the child.

It's usually a bad idea to go into a support hearing without an attorney. But in his case, he needs to state facts and insist on an income imputing at her skill level. Keep in mind that Judges don't like to veer from the guidelines because they are protecting -- not the child in this state -- but the monetary interest the state has in collecting child support.

I agree he should have an attorney, but unfortunately he jsut can't afford it right now. I will show him these responses so he gets an idea. He is one of those people that just let others walk all over him and I jsut don't think it is right. I could see if he werent supporting his son or weren't a good father but he is and going well beyond. I believe she is just trying anything she can to get back at him. And I really hate it when people use kids to do this.

I would love to see her face too, when she has an order for less. She will be kicking herself in the rear.

And oops************** her tax returns 99-2003, along with the information for the corporation change just sort of fell into the file he is going to take with him.

 

[corset]

child support hearing tuesday

your brother needs a lawyer, perhaps family or friends can help him pay for the services of a lawyer

 

[Gracie3787]

Since your brother is going into this pro-se, he'll need to go to court armed with the laws. He can find the statutes regarding CS, etc. at www.flsenate.gov/Statutes. Chapter 61 is the chapter to read. He can find the Florida Rules of Civil Procedure at http://phonl.com/fl_law/rules/frcp. The Florida Family Law Rules of Procedure can be found at http://phonl.com/fl_law/rules/famlawrules/ . Rule 12.285 deals with mandatory disclosure that all parties are to follow. He can also find some more help at www.flcourts.org/

All of this will be very important to him, and it may be too late, but he should try to hire a court reporter, so that there will be a written record of everything said in court.

Edit: What county and does he know the Judge's name? If it's one that I know of, I may be able to help a little more.
Gracie

 

[MrsK]

I would love to see the look on her face when her heart stops beating when she gets the support order.

Me, too!

OP- Please come back on Tuesday & let us know what she was actually awarded. I'd LOVE to know.

Its women like this who give female CP's a bad name. She sounds like my husband's kid's mom who acts like she should get his entire paycheck b/c its "owed" to her, so she can sit @ home & get fatter & lazier & not work. She got a rude awakening. She thinks everyone on the planet (including the welfare system) owes her something.

Is your brother's ex on any forms of welfare, btw?

 

[usaohol]

Thanks

Thanks for all the advice and web sites, I am giving him those today. I actually didn't think to ask what county it was filed, I would assume Pinellas maybe pasco, she lives in New Tampa which I believe is within Pasco county jurisdiction but I can't be certain. He did consult with an atty so he could find out what he had to file, a few weeks ago. He said that the way he understands it is this is the initial hearing, and he has to provide financial disclosure and proof of the required parenting class that Florida requires. I told him to also bring copies of the cancelled checks to prove he has been giving her money. He doesn't think they will make any child support orders at this hearing, he has been known to be wrong before though.
You are right she does make it look bad for others, no she is not getting any assistance from the state, except that the child is on Fl Kid care, and they do have to pay for. I will keep you posted on what transpires tomorrow.