Do I have a chance? I'd like to move.

[delmar411]

What is the name of your state? WV but custody order from VA
Hello,
I have physical custody of my daughter but have joint legal custody with my ex. He has every other weekend visitation and I have given him extra visitation rights outside of the order. My husband and I would like to move from WV to TX but I don't want to start any type of move preperations w/o knowing what my chances are of being allowed to move. My ex won't let me go w/o a fight. My custody order says that either ones of us has to give the court and the other person 30days notice of any move. I'm not sure how to give notice and what does 'give notice' mean? Is that like a change of address or is it asking permission? My ex moved w/o giving me or the courts notice and his visitation is stated as being at an exact address (his mother's house) but of course it occurs in his and his wife's home, I have no problem with this but is it something I can use against him in a court case? I don't really want to battle with him, I spent almost a year in court fighting with him 2.5yrs ago to get custody and make him pay CS. I appreciate any info you can give.
TIA!

 

[sirxamiel]

What is the name of your state? WV but custody order from VA
Hello,
I have physical custody of my daughter but have joint legal custody with my ex. He has every other weekend visitation and I have given him extra visitation rights outside of the order. My husband and I would like to move from WV to TX but I don't want to start any type of move preperations w/o knowing what my chances are of being allowed to move. My ex won't let me go w/o a fight. My custody order says that either ones of us has to give the court and the other person 30days notice of any move. I'm not sure how to give notice and what does 'give notice' mean? Is that like a change of address or is it asking permission? My ex moved w/o giving me or the courts notice and his visitation is stated as being at an exact address (his mother's house) but of course it occurs in his and his wife's home, I have no problem with this but is it something I can use against him in a court case? I don't really want to battle with him, I spent almost a year in court fighting with him 2.5yrs ago to get custody and make him pay CS. I appreciate any info you can give.
TIA!

Actally,"give notice" means both. You cannot leave the state unless you get permission from the father and the courts. When he moved, did he leave the state? If he just moved to another address in the same town or state, then you could or could not use that against him. A judge will want to know why you waited so long to file contempt if you knew he was seeing the child at his home. And more than likely, he wont do much. However, you moving out of state without permission is a big NO-NO. You need to get the order modified. Since the father has had regular visitation with the child and has a good relationship, you may have a hard time getting permission. Im not saying you wont, but it could get difficult. As far as the father fighting you about taking his child away from him to another state, no offense, but I would fight you too. Why is it that you want to move so far away? If you dont want to fight with him, then dont move. You two have a child together. By moving the child some 1000 miles away, your hurting the father and will eventually make it hard on the child. I commend you on allowing your child to see its father. But really think about it, and make sure you do it legally. Oh and by the way, to give notice, you need to go to the clerk of courts office. Or you may want to hire an attorney to start a Modification Of Custody and Visitation suit

 

[delmar411]

The only reason we are looking to move is to provide all 3 of our children with a better life. (2 from my husband, 1 from my ex) We have a house currently but it is very small, we have no usable yard (treed lot, no grass), we have no fence and in our area people let their dogs roam free (so BIG safety concern), also no sidewalks, our road is no paved and we are up a mountain so we are house bound during/after all snowy weather. If we moved to TX we would be able to afford a better house w/ more space, a 'real' yard, activities/sports for my daughter and eventually the other children. The school system is much better than here. I am trying to provide my kids with a better life. Since I am a SAHM we depend on my husband's income for everything. Eventually he will have to take a promotion and that would require a move anyway. This move would allow us to be in close proximity to multiple locations where he works, this would decrease the chance of moving to take a promotion. I don't really want to move any farther away from family and make visitation difficult but in weighing her everyday life quality to her visitation of 2 nights a months I'm finding it harder to justify not moving. If I could afford it I would move back to VA but the housing exp there is 10x what we have here, we need less exp and cannot pay more. If I file the notice with the courts, will they send a notice to my ex or do I need to do that seperate? Also if he does nothing and files nothing until the 29th day, what happens then? And does the court just hold the notice or is there some action that the court takes upon getting a notice like this? I'm sorry to ask so many questions but my custody order is so vague on this type of issue and so very clear cut on others. I am having trouble finding information available on the web.

 

[sirxamiel]

The only reason we are looking to move is to provide all 3 of our children with a better life. (2 from my husband, 1 from my ex) We have a house currently but it is very small, we have no usable yard (treed lot, no grass), we have no fence and in our area people let their dogs roam free (so BIG safety concern), also no sidewalks, our road is no paved and we are up a mountain so we are house bound during/after all snowy weather. If we moved to TX we would be able to afford a better house w/ more space, a 'real' yard, activities/sports for my daughter and eventually the other children. The school system is much better than here. I am trying to provide my kids with a better life. Since I am a SAHM we depend on my husband's income for everything. Eventually he will have to take a promotion and that would require a move anyway. This move would allow us to be in close proximity to multiple locations where he works, this would decrease the chance of moving to take a promotion. I don't really want to move any farther away from family and make visitation difficult but in weighing her everyday life quality to her visitation of 2 nights a months I'm finding it harder to justify not moving. If I could afford it I would move back to VA but the housing exp there is 10x what we have here, we need less exp and cannot pay more. If I file the notice with the courts, will they send a notice to my ex or do I need to do that seperate? Also if he does nothing and files nothing until the 29th day, what happens then? And does the court just hold the notice or is there some action that the court takes upon getting a notice like this? I'm sorry to ask so many questions but my custody order is so vague on this type of issue and so very clear cut on others. I am having trouble finding information available on the web.

Actually, it could work either way. They usually send notice to the father, but sometimes, depending on the state, they may require you to appear in court for modification. If they send notice to the father, and he doesnt respond within 30 days, then you just go to the courts, let them know, which he has to respond through the courts anyway, and they should keep track of that, and if he hasnt responded by then, then the courts should give you permission to leave. And as far as moving and the cost of living is concerned, I lived in NC for 20 years, and the cost of living there is low and quite affordable. Not to mention, especially around Winston-Salem and Greensboro, there is more jobs than you can shake a stick at. Why not look there? At least you wont be too far away from the father.

 

[kat1963]

Actually in VA it is notice, not permission. You have to give notice to both your ex & the courts 30 days PRIOR to any move so that the other party (or in some cases even the judge) can contest it. And you are correct, you wouldn’t be the first person served with a TRO while packing up your moving van. HOWEVER because of the distance you are creating it’s NOT that simple. Since you aren’t going to be able to have the child available for his parenting time you are going to have to file for modification or find yourself back in VA courts with a motion to show cause (contempt) facing you. Yes, it’s going to be another battle with no guarantee that the judge is going to allow the children to move with you. Can’t stop you from leaving but the judge can stop you from taking the child. If you are allowed by the judge to relocate with the child, be prepared to pay for all transportation costs associated with visitation & miss out on many major holidays.
There are many jobs & plenty of reasonable housing in Virginia. The judge will certainly know this.
KAT

 

[sirxamiel]

Actually in VA it is notice, not permission. You have to give notice to both your ex & the courts 30 days PRIOR to any move so that the other party (or in some cases even the judge) can contest it. And you are correct, you wouldn’t be the first person served with a TRO while packing up your moving van. HOWEVER because of the distance you are creating it’s NOT that simple. Since you aren’t going to be able to have the child available for his parenting time you are going to have to file for modification or find yourself back in VA courts with a motion to show cause (contempt) facing you. Yes, it’s going to be another battle with no guarantee that the judge is going to allow the children to move with you. Can’t stop you from leaving but the judge can stop you from taking the child. If you are allowed by the judge to relocate with the child, be prepared to pay for all transportation costs associated with visitation & miss out on many major holidays.
There are many jobs & plenty of reasonable housing in Virginia. The judge will certainly know this.
KAT

Thanks Kat for filling in where I missed. Kat is right, you may have a difficult case there. But if noone contests the move, then you should be ok. But that itself is highly unlikely. So be prepared for a fight.

 

[delmar411]

So are you saying that a judge may say no to the move based on the availablity of my husband to transfer into the state of VA? A VA judge originally allowed me to relocate in WV but I had already moved since the court date was over 30days after giving notice. I had to move into my house since my apartment had been given up and I had already closed on the house. Do they take into account the family finances? We are already on the verge of BK, the only reason we don't file cause it would gain us nothing. I'm not sure where in NVA there is any type of afforable housing....our current house here in WV would cost 300k+ in VA...we only pd 100k for it....if we can't move to our requested location then I would just stay where we are. I won't do anything that would require me to give up my daughter! If we did move, I know I would have to give up most of her school holidays to my ex but I am willing to be flexible on that. As a child of divorced parents I have been down this road of travelling to see one or the other, and know how hard it really is. It is difficult though to make decisions about quality of life for your children when there are so many factors outside your control.

 

[CADAD]

Do your daughter and her father have a good relationship? Does he love his daughter and is he being a decent father to her?

 

[delmar411]

Do your daughter and her father have a good relationship? Does he love his daughter and is he being a decent father to her?

I honestly don't know the answer to your questions. I do know he loves her and does want to see her. We have little to no contact with each other. Her drop off/pick ups occur at a neutral location. My daughter ends up travelling 1.5hrs to 2hrs every other weekend to get to his house and then same amount of time to get back home. She is only in his 'custody' 30hrs/every other weekend and she is sleeping at least 12hrs of that time...What defines a good relationship? What does it mean to be a decent father? These are hard questions when the child doesn't live with both parents. Sometimes he makes the effort during her visitation to do a lot of activities w/ her but other times she complains that they were too busy doing chores/errands/etc to do anything. I understand that they have to get things done on the weekends just like everyone else but that is hard to explain to a child. Let's put it this way...last June she 'graduated' from kindergarten. He said he would be there but he sent his fiance instead...he cancelled out his visitation 2 weeks after his wedding cause he said he was tired. He cancelled out his visitation to go on his rescheduled honeymoon. He asked to have her over her Xmas break the year before, after he promised to take the week off to spend with her...I thought it was a great idea for her to get some good time with him...he ended up sending her to grandmas for the week and my daughter came home telling me how nice he was cause he stopped by on the way to work to say hi each day....I am really hesitant to send her there for any extended amount of time cause they just ship her off to grandma(who is currently raising her other grandchild)...I don't have the attitude that I am some super mom or anything, we all have faults but my entire world rotates around my kids. All I want is the best I can provide for them. He is not motivated by the same wish, he mostly just wants revenge and to make me feel bad and to 'win'....he is very angry that he 'lost' in court repeatedly....I am thinking about just writing him a letter stating that we would like to move but I want his input and suggest we sit down with a mediator...

 

[AmyKearsing]

Hi been there done that 2 times.
Okay what you have to do is send a certified, notified letter to your ex, and the courts. First thing, at least 30 days before the move. He can request a family court to hear a "just cause" hearing. You will have to stay in WV until you do that, you will need to show why it would be good for you to move w/ the children when he's been in their lives, and why whatever you are moving for is "better" then a dad around as much as possible. Now if daddy don't fight it, then you can leave once they aknowledge the move. Good luck, and i hope what is best for the children wins out.

 

[AmyKearsing]

I just wanted to add, I did this 2 times and my ex didn't fight it. So, it was easy for me. But when I talked to attny's about this and what 'could' happen, I was told that when a father/mother is in the children's lives faithfully, the courts hate to take them away from that. If he never paid support or seen them then that's easier, but if he's good w/ that, usually they will make you stay there, or at least them stay there, and you could give up physical custody.

 

[CADAD]

I honestly don't know the answer to your questions. I do know he loves her and does want to see her.

I'll be totally honest with you and confess something. When I posed the question I was already prepared to unleash on you just for thinking about taking your daughter away from her father. I'm hoping that if I respond more rationally you might take some of what I say to heart.

I am a father of three beautiful children who are three, five, and seven years old. About a year ago, my ex 'won' and was allowed to move our kids several states away. This is in spite of the fact that a court appointed evaluator recommended that she not and even testified about the harm it will cause our children as they grow older. She testified that I'm a really good father and that the children have a very strong bond with me. My legal bill for all of this...just shy of $100,000. And for the record, I'm not a rich guy and this has destroyed me financially and I'd do it again if I had to. But enough about me.

Some of the things you mentioned your ex has done are not good. I would never do those things. However, that doesn't necessarily mean he's a bad father or that your daughter doesn't love him and doesn't have a strong bond with him. Some children would do anything to have a decent father - even one that has done some of the things you described.

Since I don't really know you, your ex, or your situation I can't say whether or not you have a chance. It all comes down to the laws of your state, the real facts of your situation, whether or not a custody evaluation will be done, what your ex asks for, etc. Even then, you'll never know what a judge will do. In some states a conditional change of custody can be issued which will change custody to the non-moving parent if the custodial parent moves. In other states, father's are viewed as optional for children and mother's are sent on their merry way to make a wonderful new life for themselves regardless of what it will do to the kids.

Based on what I've learned about what a move-away situation such as this does to kids, especially small kids, I can sum it up like this; assuming we're talking about decent parents, any parent who takes a child away from the other parent for any reason - let me repeat, any reason - is incredibly selfish and should be ashamed of themselves. That parent is doing irreparable harm to their child and no amount of rationalization will change that. More and more modern studies are being done that have shown how much damage is being done to kids by parents who move children away from the other parent.

It doesn't matter how big a house you can buy, it doesn't matter if you'll have a sidewalk, and it doesn't matter if you'll have a big yard. These things can't replace a mother or a father. Chances are, your kid wants a father more than a sidewalk or a big back yard. And think about this, moving as far away as you're talking about will make it much, much harder for your ex and your daughter to be together. It will make it less likely for them to maintain a good relationship. Even if your ex wants to be the best father he can be, your move will make that more difficult than you could ever imagine. It will make that situation worse, not better. It might even make it impossible. Most of the reasons you gave for moving seem to be about making more money, or having bigger and better things, or convenience for you and your new husband. I doubt your daughter thinks much about wanting a bigger house or a sidewalk. But if you move, down the road there's a good chance your daughter will be sitting in your new big house or your new big yard and wish that she could spend some time with her dad. And I would bet that as she gets older she'll resent you for taking her away from her father. What child wouldn't?

I now have to travel about 2,000 miles, one way, to see my kids. That happens once every month and a half, if I'm lucky. When I'm there and I put my daughter to bed she says, 'Daddy, don't say goodbye to me' after I kiss her and say good night. They cry when we have to say goodbye. They always want to know when I'll be able to come see them again.

I hope for your daughter's sake, you put her first and don't do this to her.

 

[delmar411]

I'll be totally honest with you and confess something. When I posed the question I was already prepared to unleash on you just for thinking about taking your daughter away from her father. I'm hoping that if I respond more rationally you might take some of what I say to heart.

I hope for your daughter's sake, you put her first and don't do this to her.

I really appreciate you giving me a dad's view on this. You sound like a wonderful father. I know moving away and not being able to see her dad would hurt my daughter, at least in the short term or only in the long term (does that makes sense?). I am really at a loss though on the right course of action. My daughter has strong emotional ties to all our family (her dad included) and even though my mother was out of the country for 3yrs, when she returned my daughter picked up their relationship same as if no time had passed. Is it selfish to want my daughter to be happy? I guess it sounds as if I am looking to move into our dream house in a dream neighborhood...that's not it at all....our house is falling apart and the reality is that we can't afford it fix it up right....the heat is failing, we just had the well pump stop working so no water for a week until the repairman was willing to come up and fix it, the house is a wreck but even moving within my current neighborhood isn't an option since all the housing prices have risen (everyone who can't afford VA moves here for the more affordable housing). I have done this type of visitation as a child. I used to fly around the world constantly. I hated leaving my mom to visit my dad but as soon as I was there I didn't want to go back home to my mom...I have a terrible relationship w/ my father, one that has nothing to do with my visitation schedule but due to the fact that I was allowed to go live with him for several years and he treated me terribly. That is another one of my concerns is that when my ex and his wife have children, how will she treat my daughter...I have experienced what happenes when the step-mother has her own children...I would be too afraid to allow my daughter to live with them F/T....my daughter has a wonderful relationship with my husband, she calls him daddy and has since she was 3yrs old. She started doing that on her own and the only advice I got on it was to allow her to do it. Now that my husband and I have 2 more children it seems natural for her to call him daddy as well. My daughter 'visits' her dad, and she 'visits' them at her step-mother's house....those are her words, not mine. She doesn't recognize that the house is her dad's as well. That makes we wonder how the whole arrangement is presented to her....I'm sorry, I seem to have just started to ramble on....anyway, you have given me some things to really think about and I appreciate it!

 

[stealth2]

What about you taking a p/t job during the hours when your husband is home so that you have the money for the repairs you need to make? You're going to have a tough time convincing a judge to allow this move, especially if you don't have a lawyer arguing your case.

 

[djohnson]

What about you taking a p/t job during the hours when your husband is home so that you have the money for the repairs you need to make? You're going to have a tough time convincing a judge to allow this move, especially if you don't have a lawyer arguing your case.

Exactly my thoughts. I don't think the reasons OP has listed here are good enough to win in court. Especially if father is good father. He may send her to grandma's sometimes. I don't see harm in that if he has to work. he has to make a living also and I am sure grandma wants to see her too. I honestly think your reasons comes seeming a little selfish with absolutely no guarantees. Just what you think is best, with no proof. If you are already broke can you afford a legal battle?

If you do and it's allowed do you realize what it will do to your daughter when she is older?