Enforcing Visitation

[iicummins]

What is the name of your state? Mississippi. After the custodial Parent shows a repeated pattern of violating the visitation order, will Mississippi enforce the court order and site the custodial parent for 'contempt of court'?
If so, how? If not, what can the non-custodial parent do to ensure visitatation with his child?

 

[snostar]

File contempt. Even if there actually is a violation of the order only a judge can decide if the CP is actually found in contempt.

 

[iicummins]

Mississippi. Please take the time to read this and give me advice.

For the last 4 1/2 years, I have been supporting my grandchild, completely, and sending money to the mother and paying her bills. Plus, she has now remarried, and I am still supporting my grandchild and am STILL paying some of her bills. I have visited the child every other weekend, plus have had him at my home for at least a week out of every month since he was born. I have spent thousands of dollars to make sure this child had every thing he needed and to make sure the mother did not suffer or do without because of this.

The child's father, my son, had to spend some time in prison for an horrendous wreck that he had. Of course, the horror story began when he had to go to trial, he married the mother, and they tell us she is pregnant -- all at the same time!!! She wanted to abort the child, but my son wanted the child so bad and talked her into NOT getting an abortion-----so, he is in prison, she is pregnant and I am paying the bills. I did not mind, I love this little boy sooo much and the mother and I have gotten along extremely well. I just felt like it was my obligation to make sure the child and the mother did well in the father's absence. I even like her new husband.

My son is home and we have gotten the child numerous times and they are getting along great. He is working and doing very well. I gave him time to get his life together and now it is time for him to start paying child support and I gave him the money to get a lawyer and get this started CORRECTLY and done RIGHT and legal---- or so I thought. I am a firm believer in 'child support' and he is going to pay and he wants to pay and visit his son. I have told the mother for 4 1/2 years that we were going to get this started as soon as my son could--- I NEED SOME RELIEF And this is his duty.

The mother is FURIOUS that we have started this procedure. She wanted it all done VERBALLY between us, no lawyers--- and NO VISITATION ORDER!!!! I tried to tell her that I thought this was the best way to go because she needs her child support and a visitation order goes along with child support. I am not trying to hurt her, I am trying to help her. I really thought this had to be done thru the court system.

She is now refusing to let us see the child all together!! I have tried to talk to her but she is now telling me that "her lawyer" tells her not to let us have contact with the child until this is all settled. She does not have a lawyer!! She CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY A LAWYER -- she does not work and her husband makes minimum wage. I know!! I have been paying her bills for 4 1/2 years!! (Yes, I have all the receipts and cancelled checks). This is why I need to know can we ENFORCE visitation once the order is 'court ordered'???

I know it all depends on the judge and how he feels, but do I need to have any of this 'history' when we go to court. Our lawyer seems to think this is a "piece of cake" but I am so worried.

 

[snostar]

This is why I need to know can we ENFORCE visitation once the order is 'court ordered'???

YOU can't do anything, you have no rights regardless of how many bills you have paid or how much time you've spent with the child. You, your son or the police cannot enforce a visitation order. If an order is violated, contempt can be filed. As I stated before, even if there actually is a violation of the order only a judge can decide if the CP is actually found in contempt.

 

[iicummins]

Enforcing Visitation Continued

What I meant by "enforcing visitation" is that we can take it back to court if there is abuse of the order. Mississippi law states that if the custodial parent interferes with the order, a Motion for Change of Circumstances can be filed and custody can be changed and / or modified. And Mississippi law also gives "grandparents rights" in certain circumstances-- and I meet those in case I need them!!@! Your response really upset me so I researched the answers that I needed and consulted a lawyer to find the answers that I needed. I thank you for your response, but you really need to be more specific when you give an answer on this site. It is apparant that you think that we all have read everything on 'visitation' , and everything in regard to "a problem" that we have but you need to look up a Mississippi site that "recites" laws from this website----- WLOX IN BILOXI, MS----- I learned more from them than I did from you, But I thank you for scaring the hell out of me!! I found the answers that I needed elsewhere!!!

 

[snostar]

What I meant by "enforcing visitation" is that we can take it back to court if there is abuse of the order.

I answered "file contempt."

Mississippi law states that if the custodial parent interferes with the order, a Motion for Change of Circumstances can be filed and custody can be changed and / or modified. And Mississippi law also gives "grandparents rights" in certain circumstances-- and I meet those in case I need them!!@!

This is not what you asked. It will take more than a few violations of an order to change custody. Gparents have the right to petition the court, until a judge grants you visitation, you have nothing.

Your response really upset me so I researched the answers that I needed and consulted a lawyer to find the answers that I needed. I thank you for your response, but you really need to be more specific when you give an answer on this site. It is apparant that you think that we all have read everything on 'visitation' , and everything in regard to "a problem" that we have but you need to look up a Mississippi site that "recites" laws from this website----- WLOX IN BILOXI, MS----- I learned more from them than I did from you, But I thank you for scaring the hell out of me!! I found the answers that I needed elsewhere!!!

Believe me, if I didn't answer the question you posted or was inaccurate in my response someone else would have answered you or corrected my reply.

 

[LdiJ]

What I meant by "enforcing visitation" is that we can take it back to court if there is abuse of the order. Mississippi law states that if the custodial parent interferes with the order, a Motion for Change of Circumstances can be filed and custody can be changed and / or modified. And Mississippi law also gives "grandparents rights" in certain circumstances-- and I meet those in case I need them!!@! Your response really upset me so I researched the answers that I needed and consulted a lawyer to find the answers that I needed. I thank you for your response, but you really need to be more specific when you give an answer on this site. It is apparant that you think that we all have read everything on 'visitation' , and everything in regard to "a problem" that we have but you need to look up a Mississippi site that "recites" laws from this website----- WLOX IN BILOXI, MS----- I learned more from them than I did from you, But I thank you for scaring the hell out of me!! I found the answers that I needed elsewhere!!!

I would like to point out here that you are totally jumping the gun. First, you have no basis to assume that once a court order is in place for visitation that she is not going to honor the court order. I also think it was a mistake to file without talking with the mother about it first...you got her back up a bit and may have even scared her. Since your son was incarcerated its also possible that he might not get as much visitation, from the judge, as the mother would have given on her own.

Second, although the law says that a judge can change custody if the custodial parent doesn't honor visitation orders, in practice judges don't do that unless the contempt is long term and chronic. Your son's previous incarceration also lessens the chance that a judge would give him custody, even IF the mother has long term, chronic, contempt.

Third, although the law states that you can petition for visitation rights, in practice, if your son has a visitation order, a judge isn't likely to give a second visitation order to you. The judge will expect you to visit during your son's time.

So, don't assume that just because the law says something is possible, that it means that the something will DEFINITELY happen.

 

[iicummins]

I have been telling this mother for 5 years that as soon as my son got home I was going to see to it that her child support started. I am a firm believer of child support and think she deserves to get every bit of support and help that she can get. I told her the very minute these proceedings started and my son also called her! I was adamant in the fact that I DID NOT want her surprised and wanted her to know everything. It's the "basic", "generic" visitation schedule she does not like. It has nothing above or beyond what a basic schedule has. She and I even talked about it and she told me her objections. I immediately told my son to go to the lawyer and get it changed to the way she likes it and it is being changed! I called her to tell her the changes were being made and that is when she told me "her lawyer advised her not to let the child have any contact with us". I begged her to please work with us and let's get it just like she wants it and she refused. (I know she is a person that likes to be in control and I am trying to give her control). But I really felt like this child support and visitation should be done legally and my son wants it done legally because he desperatly wants to see his son and be a part of his life. As far as his incarceration is concerned, he had a car accident (he was not intoxicated) but the accident was his fault and he had to serve time because of fatalities. It was an accident, not an intentional crime and we have been advised by professionals and his lawyer that this should have no bearing on visiting his child. (But I am beginning to believe they will tell you what you want to hear for the money)

BUT, she has now told us we CANNOT tell the child who his real father is and that she wants him to think his stepfather is his real father. My son visited with the child for 4 months before this all started and the child KNOWS who he is and was so excited to get to meet him.

There is no way to write or explain the 5 years I have dealt with this girl. She has already alienated her first son from his paternal family, I witnessed her doing this and have seen the anguish this son has had to go thru from the loss of contact with his father. She is trying to take his paternal rights away at this moment. She THEN took her 'now' husband's ex-wife to court on child abuse charges on her "step-son" that she abhores and did this for shear revenge on the ex-wife!! She admitted this to me! Completely false charges!! I have seen what this woman is capable of and I want to be prepared for "whatever" PLANS SHE HAS FOR US!!

I do not assume what the law will do. We are at the complete mercy of that judge and the mother and I know this, but, I was looking for hints or advice on how to handle certain things. But, there is really no way anyone can give advice on this situation because everything that I have written, thus far, is just the "tip of the iceberg" on what I have dealt with and witnessed in the last 5 years. I thank you for your advice, but I think we are facing a "horror story". I have done everything in my power to help this girl and be there whenever she needed anything and to keep the avenues open so that we could continue to communicate.l Thank you

 

[nextwife]

BUT, she has now told us we CANNOT tell the child who his real father is and that she wants him to think his stepfather is his real father. My son visited with the child for 4 months before this all started and the child KNOWS who he is and was so excited to get to meet him.

Betcha she didn't object to taking MONEY from Dad's biofamily, but she wants to pretend it's not his child?

Anyway, it's NOT her choice once paternity and visitation are LEGALLY established. Parents SHOULD NOT be telling lies to their children about who their bioparents are. This is soooooo wrong. A child should always know the truth about that, even if an adoption has occured. Not have it sprung on them "someday when they are old enough". Not only that, but if she breaks up with BF some day, he'll be gone with no visitation rights, then THAT "dad" will disappear.

Get the CO and file contempt for each and every denial of visitation. If she does it enough, it is possible there may be a change of custody someday. She needs to know this is a possibilty.

If possible, try to bring a third party family friend on all these early visits. That way, if she tries any false claim of abuse, you have a witness and can tear down her credibility.

 

[stealth2]

Grandma.... Why are you still so heavily involved in a situation that is your son's to deal with? I can understand getting info for him, etc, but when it comes to dealing with Mom - it's HIS job. Perhaps part of the problem is that you're too much in the middle, and should really consider stepping back and allowing him to do what needs doing. Just a thought.

 

[VeronicaGia]

Grandma.... Why are you still so heavily involved in a situation that is your son's to deal with? I can understand getting info for him, etc, but when it comes to dealing with Mom - it's HIS job. Perhaps part of the problem is that you're too much in the middle, and should really consider stepping back and allowing him to do what needs doing. Just a thought.

Included with that would be his first move, to establish paternity with a court ordered DNA test. I'm starting to wonder if it's possible he's not the father, since mom is so hell bent on keeping this out of the courts.

 

[iicummins]

Enforced Visitation

She never minded taking the money and still wants me to continue to pay for the child's school, all of his clothes and her telephone bill - she will let the phone get cut off if I do not pay it. She has done this numerous times and I kept getting it cut back on, so I finally just started paying it every month. She lives extremely far out in the country and I just cannot imagine her not having any phone service in case of an emergency.

The reason I am so "involved" in this is because the two cannot communicate!! She screams at him that he cannot tell the child that he is the father and my son does not agree with that. They get into a heated argument everytime they talk about 'visitation' and I am just trying to keep some peace here.

Plus, I know for a fact that strange things have happened to this child. My son was in law enforcement before his accident. And the main thing he told me to do in his absence was to "document" everything!! Well, I did and I have pictures that the mother took that are extremely explicite of this child. I have pictures that I took of bruises on this child from where she has hit him---once with a broom handle. The child told me "mama hit me with a broom". There are other things that I do not know how to explain on a forum. The child has REPEATED yeast infections that are so bad that he bleeds. I realize he may be susceptible to these infections----BUT, I know her present husband has some sort of sexual problem-- she told me about this in detail because she caught him with another woman. I know where they went for counseling. I am trying not to think the worse, but everytime I took this child home he would cry so bad. In the last 2 years it has steadly gotten worse to the point that if she called when I had him he would start crying and refused to talk to her. I did not know what to say to her!! When I would take him home, he would scream and shake violently. She saw this and her reaction was to thump him on his head as hard as she could!! I have talked to her about it and the last time I took him home I sat down with her and ask her to please explore every aspect that could possibly be causing this child to react this way. It is not normal for a child to act this way toward his mother. She says it is because he hates leaving me and tries to make light of it - but the last time I talked to her, I told her IT IS NOT NORMAL and she needs to find out what is bothering this little boy. My son has seen this reaction and, YES, he thinks something is terribly wrong. She heard him the last time on the phone and I told her this is getting worse, and she immediately asked "Do you think I am abusing him?" Her last response to me was, "Thank you for bringing this to me and not going elsewhere with it". That was the last time she let us see him!

I am worried sick about this child and here we are in the middle of this 'child support and visitation' thing. I don't know what to do!! It's not looking real good on our team as it is, and I don't want to bring up something that they will only "slap her hands and send him right back to her" and then we won't EVER know if he is okay!! I guess the reason I am up in the 'middle' of this is because I have kept this child almost as much as his mother and the 'bond' that I have with that child is second to none to that of the parents. And yes, he belongs to my son--- he is a carbon copy of his father. I am so worried and want what's best for the child but don't know what to do.

 

[nextwife]

You saw this child sporting bruises from a broomstick and didn't call CPS?????

How long has this gone on?

 

[iicummins]

Entirely too long, but I consulted 3 Child Experts and 2 of them told me going to CPS was a 'crap shoot' and I was just taking my chances that anything would be done and if I was scared of not seeing the child now THAT would guarantee my chances of not seeing him due to anguring the mother. It's the same with a visitation order - the justice system does nothing. I've never dealt with anything this unjustifiable!!

 

[snostar]

Has paternity been established?