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Mohawk1

Junior Member
After a ten day field exercise a group of soldiers that included my son went to town to have a few. They took two cars and each car had a dedicated driver. During the course of the evening rounds of drinks were ordered but unbeknownst to the buyers one soldier was under age by one year. At the end of the evening my son and his completly sober driver we asked by the soldiers in the other car if they could have a ride because they felt they were too drunk. They were refused them a ride because their was no room in the car my son was a passenger in. Tragicaly, the designated driver of the other car had been drinking and caused a fatal hit and run accident on the way back to base.

My son has now been taken off deployment status and threatned with administrative seperation for not coming to the aid of a fellow soldier help or at the least an article 15 for buying the underage drinker alcohol. We are deeply concerned because we don't believe his actions should warrant the administrative seperation and believe the article 15 may be the more appropriate action.

My son is a dedicated soldier and wants to deploy with his unit in the worst way and has no prior record either as a civilian or in the military---I guess the question is---do the actions of my son suggest the administrative termination is in order or like his recruiter friend said they may be just trying to scare the crap out of him? It has been a month since the incident and no action has been taken as yet.
 


Davidzill

Member
Is your son an E-4 or above? And was it a civilian killed? If a civilian was killed, the military will fry everyone involved. I would think if he is an E-4 or above(NCO), he has more than just an administrative discharge to worry about. The UCMJ is different from civilian laws; there is the possibility he could go to prision for this.
 

SDDubb

Member
Lets not jump to conclusions now...The military will want to hold someone responsible though, thats for sure. A fatality severely aggravates the situation, and forces the military into taking drastic measures. I also think that if a civilian was killed it would further compel the military machine to punish more severely than if it were a military guy killed. Your son may be guilty by association, and no matter how smart he is may be intimidated by the whole process and compelled to give a confession that may not be completely true through further intimidation and persuasion by his command (although its illegal, they have their techniques to make it happen) You tell him to cork his mouth NOW, to lawyer up NOW and that although he may have had a lot of friends involved to be very weary of who he trusts. By nature of this situation, he will find out that a lot of them are "buddy fu*kers" and will stab him in the back in a second when the heat is turned up. Tell him that during this process he may have to alienate them somewhat until all is said and done with...when I was going through an investigation the best advice was "Screw your command, trust NOONE here, DO NOT GIVE A STATEMENT, don't talk to anyone and GET A LAWYER ASAP - noone will look out for YOU better than YOU." Remember, the guy who is prosecuting the whole situation looks like he is doing his job better when he gets a win...he doesn't care about your son, he care's about another successful "win".
 
Mohawk1 said:
After a ten day field exercise a group of soldiers that included my son went to town to have a few. They took two cars and each car had a dedicated driver. During the course of the evening rounds of drinks were ordered but unbeknownst to the buyers one soldier was under age by one year. At the end of the evening my son and his completly sober driver we asked by the soldiers in the other car if they could have a ride because they felt they were too drunk. They were refused them a ride because their was no room in the car my son was a passenger in. Tragicaly, the designated driver of the other car had been drinking and caused a fatal hit and run accident on the way back to base.

My son has now been taken off deployment status and threatned with administrative seperation for not coming to the aid of a fellow soldier help or at the least an article 15 for buying the underage drinker alcohol. We are deeply concerned because we don't believe his actions should warrant the administrative seperation and believe the article 15 may be the more appropriate action.

My son is a dedicated soldier and wants to deploy with his unit in the worst way and has no prior record either as a civilian or in the military---I guess the question is---do the actions of my son suggest the administrative termination is in order or like his recruiter friend said they may be just trying to scare the crap out of him? It has been a month since the incident and no action has been taken as yet.

if your son did buy the alcohol for the underage person then he can get into trouble for that... but i dont see him as doing anything wrong....if their isnt room in the car then their isnt room.... the fault lies on the person that was driving the other car, that caused the accident... hes looking at prison time most likely.... I kind of ran into a situarion like this once... me and a couple guys from my platton went to a party, and one of the guys i went their with left. then i left with some girls,, leaving my friend their, cause he didnt want to leave...but my platoon leader was also their, so i didnt think anything of leaving-- eventhough the platoon leader was in the wrong for being at a party with enlisted... well my friend got beat up really bad--- he got hit in the face with a champaign bottle-- and beat up by three black gangter/thug pukes... and the platoon leader took him back to the barracks and put him in his room and left him... he was messed up really bad... when i went to him room in the morning i opend the door and there was blood everywhere... my friend sat up out of bed and looked like he should have been dead, he had cuts every where and lumps on his head, both of his eyes were swollen shut.. he didnt know what happened to him... he got beaten untill he was unconcious.... so i took im to the hospital.... the next day at work i got bitched out by my platoon sgt, then the platoon leader started in like he had nothing to do with it... I said that i wouldnt have left if you werent the last one from the platoon their with him... and the platton leader totally lied and said that i was lying about him being their..... I dont like officers anymore...

sorry about the long story
I guess it doesnt have alot to do with what your sons problem is

but good luck
 
If the car was full I think it is your right to deny anyone a ride. What if he accepted them as passengers and there were not enough seatbelts and THAT car was in the accident. It would have been a civilian and a few military deaths. That "failing to aid a fellow soldier" shouldn't really apply in this case. I mean think of how many people would be charged for this. EVERYNIGHT hundreds of members of the military go to bars and let others drive home drunk. Its not your sons responsibility to make sure the entire bar gets home safe. It was that other guys responsibility to make plans for a ride ahead of time or get a cab. You could try to get the other guy into admitting his plans were to just have a drink or two and drive himself (probably his plan anyways) which would take you out of the blame I bet...
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
In what state did this occur?
Was this on or off base?
Did your son know the age of the underage drinker?
Did he buy drinks for this person?
Did he have responsibility for this person?
Did he know the designated driver of the other car was drinking?
Does your son have a history of DUI and or MIP?
Was there alternate transportation available, such as a Taxi?
It is possible that not only will there be charges under UCMJ but civil as well.
You might want to retain a civilian attorney, Badapple is a military attorney who can give more specific advice if you provide more facts.
 

Mohawk1

Junior Member
It was a civilian killed in the accident and the driver of the car who caused it is in deep do-do. Jail time is inevitable. However, what is my son and the others guilty of? It seems logical that a charge of purchasing alcohol for an underage age fellow soldier might stick but even so, the underage soldier was a passenger in the car that caused the accident not the driver.

Thus far the NCO has told the guys what charges may apply to my son and other soldiers not involved in the accident 1, Disobeying a general order--to help a fellow soldier in need 2, Disobeying a direct order--to help a fellow soldier in need 3, Aiding and abbetting a criminal---giving shelter to the driver of the car that caused the accident ( this charge seems to apply only to the sober driver who allowed the DWI driver a place to stay the night of the accident) 3, providing an underage soldier alcohol at an off base bar.

I just seems such a reach to punish soldiers who had no direct connection to the accident so severly. Again, I can understand those who bought rounds of drinks that included an underage soldier MAY be guilty of providing alcohol to a minor but is that offense enough to cause an administrative seperation? My son thinks perhpas so.

Finally, My son took the oath to heart and feels as if he let a lot of people down because while at a local tavern he was a part of a group of soldiers that got caought up in circumstances no one could have forseen.--he's stressed to the max and doing everything he can to remind his nco's, 1st Sgt and Captian that up to this time he has been a good soldier and one who wants to be of service to his country and deploy with his fellow troopers. Having been in the Army myself I know people are made examples but even so the punishment should fit the crime. I can't tell you how distressed we (his parents) and my son are. My office is filled with ARMY memorabilia and pictures of our entire ARMY family. I and his other family members make a point everyday to pray the LTCIC will see the injustice in ordering an administrative seperation.

Thank you all for any insight or help you already have or will provide.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
I asked some questions but also see that you were responding at the same time so may not have seen my answer. It is possible that since it was an off-base bar that the bar's management may have greater responsibility for not carding the drinkers and actually may be partially responsible in the Civil lawsuit which will also occur no doubt. So there may be a defense if your son didn't know there was an underage drinker present and did nothing to make sure they got no alcohol. Since you are former military, you also know bars near a base will cater to their drinking, underage or not.
 

Mohawk1

Junior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
In what state did this occur?
Was this on or off base?
Did your son know the age of the underage drinker?
Did he buy drinks for this person?
Did he have responsibility for this person?
Did he know the designated driver of the other car was drinking?
Does your son have a history of DUI and or MIP?
Was there alternate transportation available, such as a Taxi?
It is possible that not only will there be charges under UCMJ but civil as well.
You might want to retain a civilian attorney, Badapple is a military attorney who can give more specific advice if you provide more facts.

Thanks for your questions
This accident occured off base.
My son did not know the age of the underage drinker.
Yes, he did buy drinks for this person and has said so.
No, he did not have responsibility for this person
I don't know if he knew the designated driver of the other car was drinking.
My son has a spotless record--no DUI or MIP
Taxis were available.
Best information I have is that the civilian charges have been trumphed by the Military actions--does double jeopardy appy here?
To date--my son says the his and two other soldiers papers were returned for what we assume may be paperwork errors OR the charges against him don't hold water. However, the drunk designated driver of the car that caused the accidcent, the underage drinker and other passenger(s) in the car responsible for the accident have been notifyed they will be dischared after the punishments are met out.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
Mohawk1 said:
Thanks for your questions
This accident occured off base.
My son did not know the age of the underage drinker.
Yes, he did buy drinks for this person and has said so.
No, he did not have responsibility for this person
I don't know if he knew the designated driver of the other car was drinking.
My son has a spotless record--no DUI or MIP
Taxis were available.
Best information I have is that the civilian charges have been trumphed by the Military actions--does double jeopardy appy here?
To date--my son says the his and two other soldiers papers were returned for what we assume may be paperwork errors OR the charges against him don't hold water. However, the drunk designated driver of the car that caused the accidcent, the underage drinker and other passenger(s) in the car responsible for the accident have been notifyed they will be dischared after the punishments are met out.
You are only partially correct, the military charges will superceed the civilian charges, however double jeopardy doesn't apply here, instead what is called the Doctrine of Dual Sovereignty can be invoked by the state, part of the reason for asking the state. I have included a citation from a state/state Dual Sovereignty SC case. There is a high profile case in Florida involving DUI/ manslaughter/ UCNJ/CM, Dual Sovereignty applies between 2 states and/or between US gov. & or State entities. Here are 2 government links re DS/UCMJ/manslaughter:
Constitution of the United States: Analysis and Interpretation ... in the UCMJ by providing that the punishment imposed by a court-martial may ... require him to superintend the military, including the courts-martial, ...
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/constitution/html/00supp.html
601 to 699 Criminal Resource Manual 601 Constitutionality of 18 ...
... Code of Military Justice which, normally, are tried by court martial will ... question whether the "dual sovereignty" ruling would apply to "Courts of ...
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/text/t9rm06.wpd

This may also be why there has been a delay in charges being brought against lesser defendents. How many are involved from the same unit? Can the unit afford to lose 10-12 members and safely deploy? YOur son should also read up on SSCRA. Even if the lesser offending soldiers are not punished under UCMJ or given minimal punishment, they might still be liable for civilian/criminal charges and/or penanalities beyond UCMJ. No doubt, JAG is pulling their hair out with all of this.

Since Taxis were available that is going to be difficult to defend, since they could have transported the soldiers with the designated driver DUI and the underage soldier. If your son knowingly bought drinks for intoxicated soldiers, that in and of it's self is violating a general order, but if no one had more than 2 beers it may be a different story insofar as defense. Had any drank prior to the party, were they dibilitated so that alcohol might exacerbate intoxication? The bar management is partially at fault for not carding patrons which can lead to inclusion in civil action and for serving intoxicated patrons, again why the state is necessary as laws vary state by state.
U.S. Supreme Court
HEATH v. ALABAMA, 474 U.S. 82 (1985)
474 U.S. 82

HEATH v. ALABAMA
CERTIORARI TO THE SUPREME COURT OF ALABAMA

No. 84-5555.

Argued October 9, 1985
Decided December 3, 1985

Petitioner hired two men to kill his wife. In accordance with petitioner's plan, the men kidnaped petitioner's wife from her home in Alabama. Her body was later found on the side of a road in Georgia. Petitioner pleaded guilty to "malice" murder in a Georgia trial court in exchange for a sentence of life imprisonment. Subsequently, he was tried and convicted of murder during a kidnaping and was sentenced to death in an Alabama trial court, which rejected his claim of double jeopardy. The Alabama Court of Criminal Appeals and the Alabama Supreme Court affirmed the conviction.

Held:

1. This Court will not decide whether the Alabama trial court had jurisdiction, where petitioner did not claim lack of jurisdiction in his petition to the Alabama Supreme Court but raised the claim for the first time in his petition to this Court. P. 87.

2. Under the dual sovereignty doctrine, successive prosecutions by two States for the same conduct are not barred by the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Fifth Amendment, and, hence, Alabama was not barred from trying petitioner. Pp. 87-93.

(a) The dual sovereignty doctrine provides that when a defendant in a single act violates the "peace and dignity" of two sovereigns by breaking the laws of each, he has committed two distinct "offences" for double jeopardy purposes. In applying the doctrine, the crucial determination is whether the two entities that seek successively to prosecute a defendant for the same course of conduct can be termed separate sovereigns. This determination turns on whether the prosecuting entities' powers to undertake criminal prosecutions derive from separate and independent sources. It has been uniformly held that the States are separate sovereigns with respect to the Federal Government because each State's power to prosecute derives from its inherent sovereignty, preserved to it by the Tenth Amendment, and not from the Federal Government. Given the distinct sources of their powers to try a defendant, the States are no less sovereign with respect to each other than they are with respect to the Federal Government. Pp. 87-91.

(b) The application of the dual sovereignty principle cannot be restricted to cases in which two prosecuting sovereigns can demonstrate that allowing only one sovereign to exercise jurisdiction over the [474 U.S. 82, 83] defendant will interfere with the second sovereign's unvindicated "interests." If the prosecuting entities are separate sovereigns, the circumstances of the case and the specific "interests" of each are irrelevant. Pp. 91-92.

(c) The suggestion that the dual sovereignty doctrine be overruled and replaced with a balancing of interests approach is rejected. The Court's rationale for the doctrine is not a fiction that can be disregarded in difficult cases; it finds weighty support in the historical understanding and political realities of the States' role in the federal system and in the Double Jeopardy Clause itself. Pp. 92-93.

455 So.2d 905, affirmed.

O'CONNOR, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which BURGER, C. J., and WHITE, BLACKMUN, POWELL, REHNQUIST, and STEVENS, JJ., joined. BRENNAN, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which MARSHALL, J., joined, post, p. 94. MARSHALL, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which BRENNAN, J., joined, post, p. 95.

Ronald J. Allen argued the cause and filed briefs for petitioner.

William D. Little, Assistant Attorney General of Alabama, argued the cause for respondent. With him on the brief was Charles A. Graddick, Attorney General.

JUSTICE O'CONNOR delivered the opinion of the Court.

The question before the Court is whether the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Fifth Amendment bars Alabama from trying petitioner for the capital offense of murder during a kidnaping after Georgia has convicted him of murder based on the same homicide. In particular, this case presents the issue of the applicability of the dual sovereignty doctrine to successive prosecutions by two States.
 

Mohawk1

Junior Member
This accident happened in the Fayetteville North Carolina area and I could be wrong but I think all of the soldiers are from the same company.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
Mohawk1 said:
This accident happened in the Fayetteville North Carolina area and I could be wrong but I think all of the soldiers are from the same company.
Rangers, Special Forces or Airborne?
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
Well, at least he isn't looking at quite the same amount of Esprit de Corps as Special Forces and Rangers, where they might look to make an example of everyone else involved. As I said Badapple40 is a military attorney so he can give you a better idea exactly what your son should do or expect. He may respond later but in case he doesn't here is a list of civilian attorneys experienced with Military law whom you might at least consult.

Let me give you a short list:

1. Charles Gittens

Law Offices of Charles W. Gittins
P.O. Box 144
Middletown, VA 22645
phone: 540-868-0949
fax: 540-868-0976
eMail: cgittins@aol.com

2. Frank Spinner

Law Offices of Frank J. Spinner
7035 Campus Drive, Suite 904
Colorado Springs, Colorado 80920
phone: (719) 598-6494

3. David Sheldon

Law Offices of David P. Sheldon
Barracks Row, 512 8th Street, S.E.
Washington, D.C. 20003
Tel (202) 546-9575
Toll free (866) 546-9575
Fax (202) 546-0135

Charles Gittens and Frank Spinner have been known to take cases where there has been an injustice and represent the client for free.
 

Mohawk1

Junior Member
I would have never imagined the kind of expert information I've been given could have come so quickly. Thank you! I've saved the names in a file and will choose from that list should we need the services of professional council. Per my son, we should know within a couple of weeks.
 
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