Interested in what everyone here thinks.

[max221]

Sigh...

This sounds like the kind of sick crap my father pulled on me my entire childhood. With someone like this, it only gets worse over time. Dear dad had me so terrified that (of course) I never told anyone what he was doing to me when no one was around.

Get that child AWAY from him! This is just the tip of the iceburg with an a**hole like that. Supervised visitation ONLY!

Good luck.

 

[deblack]

Sick Dad

this dad is sick! mom needs to talk to child and see what just goes on over there when she visits. just because she is only 4 children are smart and truthful. she needs to somehow coax the child (while doing activities or something)into talking about it and see if anything else is going on such as abuse sexual or any other form of abuse. if so don't hesitate to get CPS involved! what 4 year old could be so bad to get coal for christmas!! I am just glad that she has the officers report and all. MOM definitly needs to get her attorney to make a motion to revise visitations---------to supervised! they are in my prayers, i just worry about the safety of the child. good luck to your friend

 

[jslopez711]

Unpopular Response

To the degree that the father decided to not give the child anything from Santa is strictly a method of disciplining the child in the father’s eyes. The child was not in anyway physically harmed it seems. Emotional distress, sure --but that is the easiest thing to say. We all know people who are lousy parents in other aspects, i.e. allowing them to talk back to adults, allowing them to curse in the home and other things one feels personally a child should not be doing. But I think what we see here is all relative to Santa and what Christmas means to most people.
What I’m saying is that it is unpopular but I don’t think the judge is going to interfere when the child’s welfare was not jeopardized. My kid spends half his little life in time out but we see that as acceptable because it’s just time out, not Christmas.
And yeah, I agree that this guy choose the wrong time to discipline his child but that is because I value Christmas as much as all of you do.
Think of this. You go to Target/Wal-Mart, jr. usually gets something but if he is not listening then you say “…..no, you need to work for that!” or something of sorts. Say that you decide to just open your bag and give him a piece of coal from the charcoal that you bought and tell him this is what he gets for not behaving at the store, would that make this board? Probably not, because it was not Christmas.

 

[colson111]

The difference

I think the difference is when giving the coal for Christmas you are saying she is a bad kid. If you don't buy them something at the store this once, you are saying they are being bad at this time.

 

[AisforApple]

Ok, guys, you have to remember that there are 2 sides to every story,
my gut instinct for this is the typical mom lying to get every one involved to "Hate" the dad, so that every one will be sympethitec and side with mom..
Where is the copy of this police report?
right now it is just a bunch of "wah ! ! , my ex husband is such a mean man ! ! ! ...Throw the book at him Judge ! ! !"

I have seen it more times than I care to remember.

Facts... are a good thing to stick to.

And if this is true, well, it is Dad responsibility to form his own relationship with the child. He will get out what he is puting in. Let him dig his own grave. don't get your self dirty helping him.

 

[PRINCESSME]

"....typical mom lying to get every one involved to "Hate" the dad, so that every one will be sympethitec and side with mom.."TYPICAL MOM???? Are you serious?? You think that the typical mom is a manipulating, lying, whiner?? What the hell is wrong with you?This has to do with a presumably competent adult acting like a nasty bully to his own child. The child is 4 years old!! I cannot imagine, under even the worst of circumstances, what a 4 year old little girl could possibly do to be labeled as "BAD" and deserving of such cruelty. If the child did misbehave at some point during her time with the father, then an appropriate reprimand should have been carried out AT THAT TIME.
Maybe the initial reaction/shock is relative to it being done to her on Christmas,the manner it was done,along with the blatant disregard for her innocence of the 'magic' that believing in Santa brings.
She will not remember the officer consoling her. She won't remember it was a "mistake." What she will remember is her father, on Christmas Day, handing her that coal filled stocking, and bless her soul, she probably was unaware of the reason her parent was mad at her.
His actions alone, no help needed, are enough reason to have contempt for him.
Why would the mother be seeking anyone's sympathy?? To side with her for what?? This mother is seeking information not sympathy pertaining to the protection and well being of her daughter, and to halt any future emotional abuse on that child.
"...right now it is just a bunch of "wah ! ! , my ex husband is such a mean man ! ! ! ...Throw the book at him Judge ! ! !"
Again, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU???? Protecting one's children is not being cantankerous!!! Plus, I don't see where she's asking any judge to "throw the book at him".Hmmm... and what was that you said about facts are a good thing.....??
She should be asking for monitored or limited visits, though.
As far as "Dad's responsibility" to form his own relationship with the child,hasn't he exhibited his disinterest by dropping out of the picture for extended periods of time? What I see here is a 'dad' who takes his time with his daughter for granted. To be so obsessed with THAT PARTICULAR PUNISHMENT--he gave no foresight to the potential harm his 'stunt' would do. He did not exhibit any responsibility as a parent, or someone who cared about his association with his little girl. So, basically, he already did define his relationship on his own. As an abusive, cruel,narcissistic jerk. Now it's 'mom's' responsibility to ensure the mental and emotional well being of her child. Not her ex-husband's right to "parent at will" .

 

[casa]

Ok, guys, you have to remember that there are 2 sides to every story,
my gut instinct for this is the typical mom lying to get every one involved to "Hate" the dad, so that every one will be sympethitec and side with mom..
Where is the copy of this police report?
right now it is just a bunch of "wah ! ! , my ex husband is such a mean man ! ! ! ...Throw the book at him Judge ! ! !"

I have seen it more times than I care to remember.

Facts... are a good thing to stick to.

And if this is true, well, it is Dad responsibility to form his own relationship with the child. He will get out what he is puting in. Let him dig his own grave. don't get your self dirty helping him.

uhm.....Einstein? The mother didn't post, someone knowledgable to her case did. If the mother wanted to whine and have people feel sorry for her, she could have posted her with a long, drawn out, emotionally packed post. She didn't.

And the person posting isn't someone typically aligned with excluding facts.

And the poster stated there WAS a police report. It's not copied to this site, but neither are YOUR court documents- yet we take your posts at face value, now don't we?

Your post sounds like a bitter father, who has a MAJOR resentment towards women (probably from his own X or mother of his children) pssst! We are not talking about YOUR drama....this post is about the inexcusable actions of a vengeful parent.

 

[AisforApple]

What I was refering to with the Typical Mom,
is the Typical senerio where the mother is angry with dad and used the childred to get her vengance.
It is SO TYPICAL for her to tell every one stories of what dad did to me and the kids. If he was such a bad man, why did you choose him to have children with?
Either way you made the choice to have the children with this horrible bully, Now you have to coparent with him.
It is not right to *HATE* this man, going only on what one person says. She could very well be lying. Why? for Sympathy, and for support. The more sympathy and support she has; the more damage she can do to the father of her children. Gathering support, just makes her think she is justified in what she is doing.
Denying visitation is only hurting the child, simply b/c he/she doesn't understand right now. Dad will get over it.
Work it out with the father, get over your self and think of your child. No matter what, he will always be the father of that child and that will never change.
10, 15, 20 years from now, he will still be the father.
Believing something immediatly that your heard from only one person and convicting them on the spot is very narrow minded.

 

[casa]

What I was refering to with the Typical Mom,
is the Typical senerio where the mother is angry with dad and used the childred to get her vengance.
It is SO TYPICAL for her to tell every one stories of what dad did to me and the kids. If he was such a bad man, why did you choose him to have children with?
Either way you made the choice to have the children with this horrible bully, Now you have to coparent with him.
It is not right to *HATE* this man, going only on what one person says. She could very well be lying. Why? for Sympathy, and for support. The more sympathy and support she has; the more damage she can do to the father of her children. Gathering support, just makes her think she is justified in what she is doing.
Denying visitation is only hurting the child, simply b/c he/she doesn't understand right now. Dad will get over it.
Work it out with the father, get over your self and think of your child. No matter what, he will always be the father of that child and that will never change.
10, 15, 20 years from now, he will still be the father.
Believing something immediatly that your heard from only one person and convicting them on the spot is very narrow minded.

LOL....here's some reading relevant to what you've brought up~ Check out my story in posts under this forum and also libel/slander. I didn't, however, refer to my X as a "typical father" (what is 'typical' in your eyes anyway?). In my own case, the nuttyX <as I refer to him now> is a Narcissist. They are very charming and wonderful....until you don't do what they want. Then they come out all canons blazing. Hence our divorce and ongoing ugly custody conflict- brought on by: You guessed it- the father.

If someone posted their problems and stated the father was a "typical father" because he didn't do x,y or z....Bet you'd be one of the first to point it out.

Bottom line, this forum, not at all unlike law- Presumes innocence (or truthfulness). We assume people coming here are telling the truth- as we did in reading your posts.

Food for thought

 

[LdiJ]

What I was refering to with the Typical Mom,
is the Typical senerio where the mother is angry with dad and used the childred to get her vengance.
It is SO TYPICAL for her to tell every one stories of what dad did to me and the kids. If he was such a bad man, why did you choose him to have children with?
Either way you made the choice to have the children with this horrible bully, Now you have to coparent with him.
It is not right to *HATE* this man, going only on what one person says. She could very well be lying. Why? for Sympathy, and for support. The more sympathy and support she has; the more damage she can do to the father of her children. Gathering support, just makes her think she is justified in what she is doing.
Denying visitation is only hurting the child, simply b/c he/she doesn't understand right now. Dad will get over it.
Work it out with the father, get over your self and think of your child. No matter what, he will always be the father of that child and that will never change.
10, 15, 20 years from now, he will still be the father.
Believing something immediatly that your heard from only one person and convicting them on the spot is very narrow minded.

Hon, I am the one who posted this story. It is NOT my story, its someone else's who DOES NOT participate on this board. Therefore she will never see your post. In addition, I can guarantee that this story is 100% true because the person tells me everything, warts and all. She knows that she gets better advice from me that way.

I don't think you paid enough attention. This dad was so determined to give this 4 year old coal, that he actually brought a police officer with him to make SURE that he got to give the child the coal. That is more than a little bit over the top. It takes alot for a police officer to feel strongly enough about something to write a report like that.

If you can find any potential justification for a parent (mother OR father) doing something like that, then please share it.

 

[VeronicaGia]

To the degree that the father decided to not give the child anything from Santa is strictly a method of disciplining the child in the father’s eyes. The child was not in anyway physically harmed it seems. Emotional distress, sure --but that is the easiest thing to say. We all know people who are lousy parents in other aspects, i.e. allowing them to talk back to adults, allowing them to curse in the home and other things one feels personally a child should not be doing. But I think what we see here is all relative to Santa and what Christmas means to most people.
What I’m saying is that it is unpopular but I don’t think the judge is going to interfere when the child’s welfare was not jeopardized. My kid spends half his little life in time out but we see that as acceptable because it’s just time out, not Christmas.
And yeah, I agree that this guy choose the wrong time to discipline his child but that is because I value Christmas as much as all of you do.
Think of this. You go to Target/Wal-Mart, jr. usually gets something but if he is not listening then you say “…..no, you need to work for that!” or something of sorts. Say that you decide to just open your bag and give him a piece of coal from the charcoal that you bought and tell him this is what he gets for not behaving at the store, would that make this board? Probably not, because it was not Christmas.

I agree with this post.

1. Mom had no right to deny court ordered visitation. People don't get to decide whether or not they feel like following a court order.

2. I didn't read everything because the minute I saw "CPS" I knew this was insane. The child was not abused and I wish people would stop calling CPS for idiotic things like this. CPS is for ABUSED children; this isn't even close. In fact, if CPS was going to be called, it should have been called on mom for denying the parent/child relationship between dad and child.

3. This is not about feelings, its about what was legal and what was not legal. Mom did the illegal thing, dad did absolutely nothing illegal.

 

[LdiJ]

I agree with this post.

1. Mom had no right to deny court ordered visitation. People don't get to decide whether or not they feel like following a court order.

2. I didn't read everything because the minute I saw "CPS" I knew this was insane. The child was not abused and I wish people would stop calling CPS for idiotic things like this. CPS is for ABUSED children; this isn't even close. In fact, if CPS was going to be called, it should have been called on mom for denying the parent/child relationship between dad and child.

3. This is not about feelings, its about what was legal and what was not legal. Mom did the illegal thing, dad did absolutely nothing illegal.

I do view it differently. While I agree that what dad did was perfectly legal, I also think that it was a terribly cruel thing to do, and I think that a judge would recognize that. It takes a LOT for a police officer to actually be willing to go out on a limb and put in a police report that he/she feels that visitation is not in the best interest of a child. I think that alone would make the judge stop and think.

However, the bottom line is that what dad did, while legal, wasn't RATIONAL.
Dragging a police officer along to make certain that you get to give your child coal on Christmas Day...so that the police officer is a witness to the act of cruelty..simply isn't a rational act.

 

[AisforApple]

Interested in what we think?

I think that the mother of this child is an angry bitter person, and wants the world to hate her ex.
I think she is lying about the coal and the police officer's report.
I think she should have let the father pick up the child when he was supposed to. And you would have nothing to be writting about.
She choose this man to reproduce with, and she must coparent with him 'warts -n- all'. he is the father and with him the child would not even exist.
But, hey, go ahead and condone hate and condesention and teach it to the 4 year old while you are at it.

 

[casa]

I agree with this post.

1. Mom had no right to deny court ordered visitation. People don't get to decide whether or not they feel like following a court order.

2. I didn't read everything because the minute I saw "CPS" I knew this was insane. The child was not abused and I wish people would stop calling CPS for idiotic things like this. CPS is for ABUSED children; this isn't even close. In fact, if CPS was going to be called, it should have been called on mom for denying the parent/child relationship between dad and child.

3. This is not about feelings, its about what was legal and what was not legal. Mom did the illegal thing, dad did absolutely nothing illegal.

The wonderful thing about having a judge be an impartial party- and review not only the law but other relevants facts to a case is that they acknowledge there are times when the 'word' of the law does not outweigh risks to children. ie; if a parent showed up intoxicated or in a rage or in an unsafe vehicle or a myriad of other things- you'd technically be breaking court order, but in the best interest of the child. When it comes down to seeking contempt charges, that is what comes to light. In this situation (given that all facts are correct) a judge will see this. The police officer's witness to the emotional cruelty (and YES there is such a thing as emotional abuse- and that is sometimes far more damaging than physical abuse) will only cement the reality in the eyes of the court.

 

[casa]

I think that the mother of this child is an angry bitter person, and wants the world to hate her ex.
I think she is lying about the coal and the police officer's report.
I think she should have let the father pick up the child when he was supposed to. And you would have nothing to be writting about.
She choose this man to reproduce with, and she must coparent with him 'warts -n- all'. he is the father and with him the child would not even exist.
But, hey, go ahead and condone hate and condesention and teach it to the 4 year old while you are at it.

While you have a right to your opinion- I very very strongly disagree. Teaching hate is if the mother talked badly to the child about the father, told the child to hate the father, etc.

Teaching a child that you will protect them in their formative years is paramount to them ever feeling that life is a safe place to be in. Also teaching assertiveness- that it's OK to stand up for yourself and not allow yourself to be treated inhumanely- will only DEcrease the odds that the child will one day wind up with an abusive spouse/partner themselves.

Why don't you do some research on adults who were told as children they were 'bad', and had extreme shaming and punishments meted out....see where they are today and what their life has consisted of. Spend some time volunteering with emotionally abused kids~ Then, perhaps you will know of what you speak