Military Expungements? It may be possible….

[CeLaw]

There is a bill that will be introduced in this session of Congress titled the "Second Chance for Ex-Offenders Act" by the Honorable Charles B. Rangel (D) from the 15th Congressional District in New York. This is a bill that will allow for the expungement of Federal Criminal Convictions. To review this bill, please click here: H.R. 662 (please note this bill will be re-introduced and will not change except for the date).

The text of the bill reads:
Second Chance for Ex-Offenders Act of 2005 - Amends the Federal criminal code to allow an individual to file a petition for expungement of a record of conviction for a nonviolent criminal offense if such individual has: (1) never been convicted of a violent offense and has never been convicted of a nonviolent offense other than the one for which expungement is sought; (2) fulfilled all requirements of the sentence of the court in which conviction was obtained; (3) remained free from dependency on or abuse of alcohol or a controlled substance for a minimum of one year and has been rehabilitated, to the court's satisfaction, if so required by the terms of supervised release; (4) obtained a high school diploma or completed a high school equivalency program; and (5) completed at least one year of community service.
Authorizes an individual convicted of a felony or a misdemeanor to file an expungement petition. Directs the court, in ruling on such petition, after determining petitioner eligibility, to weigh the petitioner's interests against the best interests of justice and public safety.
Authorizes the Department of Justice to maintain a nonpublic manual or computerized index of expunged records, to be made available only to Federal and State law enforcement personnel who have custody of such records for limited disclosure purposes.
Requires the restoration of expunged records of individuals subsequently convicted of any Federal or State offense.

While this bill does not specifically mention Military Convictions, prior service members convicted in Military Court Martial should be able to get their criminal record expunged so long as they meet the criteria set forth in this bill. I have spoke to Congressman Rangel's staff and they are going to put more effort during this session to get the bill passed. I have also sent correspondence to the four major Veterans organizations to ask them for their support as well. I hope to get their support for this bill as I believe it could benefit many Veterans that have criminal records that do not reflect their true value as citizens of the United States.
I know that a Presidential Pardon is the only cure that is currently available to remedy a criminal record. But with the small numbers of pardons granted by the President, the likely hood of getting a pardon is slim to none. I often tell people they may as well get a lottery ticket while they are at because if they win either one, they will be OK.
I would appreciate some feedback on this issue and any suggestions or ideas would be most appreciated. I am asking that all Veterans please contact Congressman Rangel to pledge their support. I am also asking that they seek support for this bill by contacting the Congressman in their district. I am also asking all Veterans to contact the four major Veterans groups. I have provided as much contact information I could find to make it easy for anyone to contact these groups. With a lot of support and a large dose of good luck, an expungement of a military conviction could become a reality instead of a myth or fantasy.

Thanks, CeLaw


Important Links
Congressman Charles B. Rangel (D)
Washington D.C. Office
2354 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
Office: (202) 225-4365
Fax: (202) 225-0816

New York Office
163 West 125th Street, Suite #737
New York, NY 10027
Office: (212) 663-3900
Fax: (212) 663-4277

American Legion
National Commander's Office: (317) 630-1200 or Legislative Office (202) 861-2700
Email: Click Here to Contact

AMVETS
AMVETS National Headquarters
4647 Forbes Boulevard
Lanham, MD 20706-4380
Phone: (301) 459-9600
Toll-Free: 1-877-726-8387
Fax: (301) 459-7924
e-mail: amvets@amvets.org

Disabled American Veterans (DAV)
Click Here to Contact

Disabled American Veterans
National Headquarters
3725 Alexandria Pike
Cold Spring, KY 41076
Phone: (859) 441-7300

National Service and Legislative Headquarters
Denvel D. Adams
807 Maine Ave., S.W.
Washington, D.C. 20024
Phone: (202) 554-3501

Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW)
National Headquarters
406 West 34th Street
Kansas City, Missouri 64111
Phone: (816) 756-3390
Fax: (816) 968-1149
email:info@vfw.org

Washington D.C. Office
VFW Memorial Building
200 Maryland Avenue N.E.
Washington, D.C. 20002
Phone: (202) 543-2239
Fax: (202) 543-6719
email:npomeroy@vfwdc.org

 

[carproblems99]

I don't support it

As a guy who is living w/ an OTH who would love to see it gone, I don't deserve it. I made a mistake. I went awol from the Army after two weeks of training. I cost taxpayers thousands of dollars. Granted I was a teenage who enlisted during wartime w/ only the best intentions...granted I was only in for two weeks...I still made a mistake. I don't think extensive jail time fits the punishment. I do, however, deserve some minor setbacks in my life, which I have encountered. Telling my boss honestly about my situation was embarassing to say the least, as I pride myself in being a man w/ integrity. However, we all make mistakes, and this was mine. I deserved to be faced w/ that awkward confrontation, and I wouldn't have gotten upset if he had fired me on the spot nor in the future.

I don't believe in this proposal. It's a slap in the face to the guys in my unit just as myserable as me that stuck it out/didn't do whatever the rest of these guys did to get a conviction. Granted a huge number of the rules/regulations the military has are beyond rediculous, outdated and almost cartoonish(adultery)...the bottom line is we all knew what we were getting into when we enlisted. I don't like Rangel and I don't like this proposal.

My 2 cents.

 

[fozzy2]

Whether the proposed law is good or bad is of course a personal value judgment, but pragmatically I don't think it has a snowball's chance in hell of getting passed. Laws like this one are routinely introduced, and quickly forgotten. Sadly, I would say this is particularly true in this case because Rangel is very low on the majority's "let's be nice to him" list. Ahhh, politics. Feel free to engage, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on the passage of such a law....

 

[CeLaw]

Oh Wow Car' you've got more than car problems! This bill would not change your OTH. I respect your opinion, but please understand that they are many of us that deserve a second chance. I hope not everyone thinks like you. If I may ask, does your criminal record show an OTH, or do you have a clean slate with the FBI? Why did you have to tell your boss you have an OTH? Can't you just say you were on vacation for two weeks and throw your DD214 in the trash? What type of court martial or other admin proceedings were you subjected to for your criminal acts? Please understand that AWOL is not a crime in the civilian world.
Fozzy, you are right about the chances of passing this bill. That is why I am trying to get support from people that don't believe they got they deserve. OR more correctly, people got what they deserve, but would like a chance to be free from act they truly regret. Thanks for your replies

 

[carproblems99]

To answer your first question, yes I do have a clean slate w/ the FBI. In fact, not to encourage or condone this(just being totally honest)I've "forgotten" to mention that I ever served to a few previous employers while in college and nothing ever came of it. I actually didn't "have" to tell my boss, in fact I didn't during the interview process. We developed a close relationship as time grew and I told him out of the blue for no particular reason. No court martial, just a few days holding and processed out. So to be fair, the OTH hasn't really affected my life very much if at all.


I hear what your saying to a degree and I certainly have sympothy in specific cases. What I think you have to understand is that while maybe your a great guy who made a nonviolent mistake, etc...many/most aren't you. I think employers deserve to know that ahead of time, even if a small minority of good guys get mixed in w/ the bad apples along the way. I think a situation where guys who were previously convincted of stealing from an employer have that erased and start working w/ me(financial industry..lots of trust involved, etc) undetected is much more harmful than a small group of decent guys getting turned down. I respect your eagerness to get involved nonetheless. Take care.

 

[SHORTY LONG]

Celaw: "bill For Expungments!"

07FEB06

Sir, respectfully thank you for sharing this most invaluable information. Sir, what about the Viet Nam Vets of America; will you also ask them for their support please! Sir, I was a HS dropout in 1967, and got into a scrape with the law; and while in jail a MC Recruiter came into Lock-up and said sign here for three years and this would go away. I did without advise from counsel. Sadly, while I was stationed for Five days at Camp Le June, my late parents got into it with each other, and my Mother was shot in the leg; by the grace of GOD she did not die. Given the extreme domestic violence that my Mother was undergoing, I went over the hill for 151 days and worked and protected her. Upon the advice from appointed Military DC I did a pre-guilty plea and was tried by a MJ alone. I was awarded a BCD, 6 months confinement and loss of pay and busted to an E-1. No defense was offered up, nor any motions or any appeal. Counsel said in Court no your Honor we have no defense; and by Counsels advice that is, take this, and when you get out apply for a discharge upgrade; it will be approved based upon the mitigating circumstances. Well, for number one, I was never in a scintilla informed that by pleading guilty it would be for offenses against my own "Country" and nor was I informed that it would be a "Federal Felony Conviction." I have now for 31 years been trying to get this mountain off me, for eventhough I went back to school and have 3 degrees I am unable to obtain any bona fide employment. SO YES SIR, I SUPPORT THIS, AND WILL DO ALL I CAN TO HELP MAKE IT BE PASSED. THANK YOU FROM MY HEART SIR. VERY RESPECTFULLY YOURS, SHORTY

P.S. The 08TH of FEB marks my 24TH year of having this unlawful mountain and baleful consequences stemming directly from IT!

 

[SHORTY LONG]

Celaw: "bill For Expungments!"

07FEB06

Woops, 34TH year in having this mountain!!!!!!

 

[marine]

carproblems. good post. The unbiased honesty is rare. I wish you well.

 

[CeLaw]

Shorty Long,
I appreciate your enthusiasm! You are most welcome to all the information I have. I am working very hard to see that this gets passed. I am trying to remain optimistic, but I do realize the odds are against us. I urge you to contact all the Veterans Groups I have listed and I have put the contact information for the Vietnam Veterans Group below. Please also contact your Congressman, The Honorable Patrick J. Tiberi from Central Ohio_s 12th Congressional District in the U.S. House of Representatives, using the contact information I listed below. It sounds as if your Federal Record should not be on record at all. From my understanding, purely military offenses (such as AWOL) are not recordable offense because they do not translate to civilian criminal law. I am not an expert on that issue, but I can do more research.
From your brief description of your plight, it sounds as if you got unreasonably punished. I also take it from your High School dropout date that this all happened during the Vietnam War. Although I was born during the Vietnam War, I have a great deal of respect for those that served or were going to serve such as yourself. From my understanding, there were a record number of Court Martials during the Vietnam Conflict. That being the case, the Vietnam Veterans Group may be more sympathetic than the rest of the other groups. What I am experiencing with the other organizations is the fact that the major groups are a bit unwilling to help Veterans that do not have an Honorable Discharge. But, I have an Honorable Discharge, so they at least have to listen to me. But, the other side of the coin is that all Veterans Groups are very interested in helping homeless Vets. I can help but to think that many of the homeless Vets were convicted in Military Court Martial during the Vietnam War. And they are most likely homeless because, as we both know, it is very hard to obtain employment with a criminal record. If this bill were to pass, and in theory, many of the homeless Vets could possibly get there records expunged. I also think many of the Vets wind up on the street, homeless, and chemically dependent because they have no hope. But, if it were possible to get a military conviction expunged, then upon release from the military, the convicted Veteran would have a good reason to live a life free of crime because he would know that if he does, he will have a opportunity for a second chance. As it stands now, there is little incentive (other than the penalties of a subsequent conviction) to stay clean. In other words, once you have a criminal record of one conviction, you may as well have twenty, because if you do get a job, it will be at a place that would not check your back ground anyway.
Thanks carproblems99 for your insight. I agree with you on your points. But, please understand that an expungement is not a given privilege, and the bar is set pretty high to be able to get an expungement. So, someone that did get an expungement, most likely will not be a risk. And, on the other side of that, an employer could look at a criminal record with a bit more scrutiny if were possible to get an expungement, because if the person was not a risk, then he would get the record expunged. The way it stands now, an employer has primarily has to take the persons word that he is reformed and not likely to offend (that assumes that such employer would even talk to someone with a criminal record). An employer does not have a good way to tell the good from the bad when it comes to persons with criminal records. Therefore, and to no surprise, the employer simply tosses the application away and picks another applicant that does not have a record.
Another key point that I mention is that this bill does not create a new concept, but rather puts federal and military convictions on the same level as state convictions. This bill gives Veterans nothing more than the same privilege that is routinely available in most states. But because there is no Federal Law that allows for expungement of Federal Criminal Records, the Veterans do not enjoy the same privilege as their civilian counterparts. In other words, the Veteran, because they chose to serve their country (or were forced by draft), do not have the same privilege of a second chance as they would have had if the conviction took place in a State Criminal Court.
Shorty Long, please contact me via secure email at click here to email me. I have some important information to share with you. I may have a semi-cure for your problem. I am also working on the issue whether or not a Special Court Martial is a felony or a misdemeanor, but I_ll save that for another thread.

Thanks for all the replies, CeLaw

Pat Tiberi_s contact information
Website: Click Here
email: Click Here.

District Office Address:
3000 Corporate Exchange Drive
Suite 310
Columbus, Ohio 43231
Phone: (614) 523-2555

Washington, DC Office Address:
113 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
Phone: (202) 225-5355

Vietnam Veterans of America
Email: govtrelations@vva.org

8605 Cameron Street
Suite 400
Silver Spring, MD 20910
Phone: (800) 882-1316

 

[badapple40]

You've got to watch out for those badapples!

 

[thepizzaguy]

I Do Support It

Good post. Get the word out. People can and DO change.

You earn money. You earn respect. Why can't you earn redemtion?

Fozzy is right this will not go far especially in the GOP atmosphere that is America today. But its a nice thought.

My postiion on the subject is to try and "right the wrong" and the government/military should also think a long those lines.

There are crimes in this world that are beyond redemption. UA/AWOl is not one of them.

And finally how can one truly be redeemed or be expected to redeem if redemtion will not be awarded?

 

[carproblems99]

Pizzaguy, I can tell you're a kid so I'm not going to all over the place about this. Trust me friend, I am over what I did. I don't sit at night and cry about what a bad person I am. There is a difference between guilt and acceptance of one's failures. For me or anyone AWOL to try to justify what I did is laughable. "the military tricked me, my mom is sick so I need to watch her for six months(as people on here have claimed),etc." Well of course they lied and tricked. What, you didn't think your mom could get sick during your enlistment term? My fault wasn't really that I left, it was that I had the awareness to recognize military BS ahead of time, yet still dove in for those massive signing bonuses and country.

Now lets not take it too far and be like that fat girl "paradise" and claim all AWOL soldiers are dishonorable people. Of course not. Perspective,perspective, perspective. Being a good/bad soldier is on a difference moral scale than being a good/bad person. I know many a soldier who is morally disgusting as a person w/ many medals and ribbons. But wasting taxpayers dollars and not following through on an oath is not to be taken lightly, either. I simply recognize it was a mistake.

Future note bud: Next time you disagree w/ someone, state your claim in a more professional manner as oppose to claiming I have "issues". That is unless you were being intentionally antagonistic...Take care guys..

 

[thepizzaguy]

Pizzaguy, I can tell you're a kid so I'm not going to all over the place about this. Trust me friend, I am over what I did. I don't sit at night and cry about what a bad person I am. There is a difference between guilt and acceptance of one's failures. For me or anyone AWOL to try to justify what I did is laughable. "the military tricked me, my mom is sick so I need to watch her for six months(as people on here have claimed),etc." Well of course they lied and tricked. What, you didn't think your mom could get sick during your enlistment term? My fault wasn't really that I left, it was that I had the awareness to recognize military BS ahead of time, yet still dove in for those massive signing bonuses and country.

Now lets not take it too far and be like that fat girl "paradise" and claim all AWOL soldiers are dishonorable people. Of course not. Perspective,perspective, perspective. Being a good/bad soldier is on a difference moral scale than being a good/bad person. I know many a soldier who is morally disgusting as a person w/ many medals and ribbons. But wasting taxpayers dollars and not following through on an oath is not to be taken lightly, either. I simply recognize it was a mistake.

Future note bud: Next time you disagree w/ someone, state your claim in a more professional manner as oppose to claiming I have "issues". That is unless you were being intentionally antagonistic...Take care guys..

I edited the post. No need for cheap shots. I was having a bad day. The car won't start. My feet hurt. etc.

 

[carproblems99]

07FEB06

Sir, respectfully thank you for sharing this most invaluable information. Sir, what about the Viet Nam Vets of America; will you also ask them for their support please! Sir, I was a HS dropout in 1967, and got into a scrape with the law; and while in jail a MC Recruiter came into Lock-up and said sign here for three years and this would go away. I did without advise from counsel. Sadly, while I was stationed for Five days at Camp Le June, my late parents got into it with each other, and my Mother was shot in the leg; by the grace of GOD she did not die. Given the extreme domestic violence that my Mother was undergoing, I went over the hill for 151 days and worked and protected her. Upon the advice from appointed Military DC I did a pre-guilty plea and was tried by a MJ alone. I was awarded a BCD, 6 months confinement and loss of pay and busted to an E-1. No defense was offered up, nor any motions or any appeal. Counsel said in Court no your Honor we have no defense; and by Counsels advice that is, take this, and when you get out apply for a discharge upgrade; it will be approved based upon the mitigating circumstances. Well, for number one, I was never in a scintilla informed that by pleading guilty it would be for offenses against my own "Country" and nor was I informed that it would be a "Federal Felony Conviction." I have now for 31 years been trying to get this mountain off me, for eventhough I went back to school and have 3 degrees I am unable to obtain any bona fide employment. SO YES SIR, I SUPPORT THIS, AND WILL DO ALL I CAN TO HELP MAKE IT BE PASSED. THANK YOU FROM MY HEART SIR. VERY RESPECTFULLY YOURS, SHORTY

P.S. The 08TH of FEB marks my 24TH year of having this unlawful mountain and baleful consequences stemming directly from IT!

All I know is, you say sir an awful lot. Why? Are you being sarcastic or do you really speak that way? Just curious...

 

[CeLaw]

I really think he is just very thankful for the information I provided. I hope that this bill does get passed and we don’t get our hopes up for nothing. I hope to hear from Shorty Long again! He seems pretty desperate (as I am) to get some form of relief.

CeLaw